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Moore11
Guest
I know, I hate that term too. But a friend and I were talking and it was stated that Catholic thought is that there is no “duty” to have relations in a marriage? What are your thoughts?
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C
Castello
Guest
Ask your friend to produce official teaching documents that back up her claim.
The term is the term of the Church. You will find it in our Canon Law and in official teaching documents of the Church. It is also used in Scripture.
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html
The term is the term of the Church. You will find it in our Canon Law and in official teaching documents of the Church. It is also used in Scripture.
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121930_casti-connubii_en.html
- By this same love it is necessary that all the other rights and duties of the marriage state be regulated as the words of the Apostle: “Let the husband render the debt to the wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband,”[28] express not only a law of justice but of charity.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
The term is pretty horrible and a bit tendency to the male side. After all, priests are males who understand better the male side of the question.
I do not talk about “duty”.
But is a couple does not have sexual relationship, is that a marriage?
On the other hand, I talk about “duty”.
If this means that to give pleasure to the other, sometimes you have to make some sacrifices on days you are tired, do not feel like it, or simply are down. But in sex, it is like in other things in marriage. You have to compromise on both sides’ wishes.
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Gorgias
Guest
I agree – it’s a pretty callous way to approach it.
However, I disagree with the “tendency to the male side” part. Read Aquinas – he explicitly talks about wives and their ability to call for satisfaction of the marital debt…
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1ke
Guest
Catholic teaching is exactly the opposite. Spouses have a grave obligation to fulfill their marital duty towards each other. Withholding relations is grave matter.
B
Bookcat
Guest
not.
B
Bookcat
Guest
The “debitum” is yes an authentic term and reality. See for example St. Paul.
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_Jenn
Guest
I think that if you (general you, not anyone specific) view making love with your spouse as “marital debt” or a “duty”, then there are issues that need looked at. JMHO
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floresco
Guest
This certainly is a Catholic teaching, although many modern people are uncomfortable with using this phrase. If one reads older examinations of conscience (Catholics used these to prepare for Confession) it is common to see refusal to fulfill the marital debt alluded to as a sin.
This was not really a bias toward men. Until relatively recently, women were seen as the more passionate sex. The idea that women would not enjoy marital intimacy seems to have developed in Victorian England. Although I don’t think it was true then, it very well may be true now. The majority of women i our culture use artificial contraception which often has the side effect of loss or reduction of libido. Also, the stress of trying to maintain an outside job while also running the home, sometimes affects women this way.
This was not really a bias toward men. Until relatively recently, women were seen as the more passionate sex. The idea that women would not enjoy marital intimacy seems to have developed in Victorian England. Although I don’t think it was true then, it very well may be true now. The majority of women i our culture use artificial contraception which often has the side effect of loss or reduction of libido. Also, the stress of trying to maintain an outside job while also running the home, sometimes affects women this way.
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floresco
Guest
There might be problems for people who have this view. There are also problems for people who do not. It is socially acceptable for a woman to withhold sex from her husband in order to punish or manipulate him. This scenario is often portrayed as humorous in the entertainment media. However, it is gravely wrong and that is what the Catholic Church has always taught.
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Bookcat
Guest
A Mother and a Father have an obligation …a “duty” to care for their children …
We also have an obligation …to go to Mass on Sundays and Holy Days…
etc etc
Lots of obligations in life that --yes–we normally do not --look at so much as “obligations”…duties
Such does not remove the fact that they are.
Indeed Jesus tells us – a new commandment I give you…love one another.
C
Castello
Guest
Add to this the list of job duties that your boss gave you when you were hired… and our duty to our country…
B
Bookcat
Guest
It is good too to note that like certain other “duties” there are various legit exceptions…not only of course mutual agreement (without near occasion of sin) but also others.
B
Bookcat
Guest
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
The term does not bother me, and in fact, once I had read it many times here on the forum, it helped me to consider that I owe my husband and the ledger sheet was getting SEVERELY unbalanced!
LOL
It is the kind of debt that makes you happy to pay back.
LOL
It is the kind of debt that makes you happy to pay back.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
We have a duty to eat, too, an obligation to get enough sleep, a duty to take care of our bodies, an obligation to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days, and even a duty to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion during the Easter Season. We are commanded to love God with our whole heart, whole soul, and whole mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves.
Most of the really important and sustaining things in life are obligatory.
A person who does not want to eat, does not want to sleep, does not want to pray, does not want to think about God or others may well have a serious problem that needs treatment, rather obstinately choosing to engage in a mere refusal of will. The issue needs compassion. Still, can be a situation where engaging in sex is about as attractive as the ways in which one might engage in the necessary amount of exercise. Like it or not, it is a need, a way of providing vitality that is not to be dispensed of lightly.
Most of the really important and sustaining things in life are obligatory.
A person who does not want to eat, does not want to sleep, does not want to pray, does not want to think about God or others may well have a serious problem that needs treatment, rather obstinately choosing to engage in a mere refusal of will. The issue needs compassion. Still, can be a situation where engaging in sex is about as attractive as the ways in which one might engage in the necessary amount of exercise. Like it or not, it is a need, a way of providing vitality that is not to be dispensed of lightly.
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Bookcat
Guest
I try to also argue that back rubs several times a week – are the secundum debitum…but my wife is still not convinced with my theology there…
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dailey
Guest
Very good explanation! :clapping:
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Moore11
Guest
These responses are helpful. Keep em coming!
B
Bookcat
Guest
What “moore” are you looking for?
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