Marital, unitive, procreative

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Ron_Conte said:
The only moral sexual act is natural marital relations open to life. To be moral, each and every sexual act must be marital and unitive and procreative. This threefold meaning of the marital act is the moral object of sexual relations. If any one or more of these three meanings is absent in any sexual act, then the moral object is evil and the sexual act is intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral.

Unnatural sexual acts are non-procreative, intrinsically evil, and always gravely immoral, regardless of intention or circumstances, even within marriage. Unnatural sexual acts cannot be justified as a type of foreplay in order to prepare for the natural marital act because the end never justifies the means. And the absence of sexual climax does not change an intrinsically evil, gravely immoral, unnatural sexual act into an act that is good or morally defensible.

“…nor be changed into that use which is against nature, on which the Apostle could not be silent, when speaking of the excessive corruptions of unclean and impious men… by changing the natural use into that which is against nature, which is more damnable when it is done in the case of husband or wife.” (Augustine, On the Good of Marriage, section 11).

“For, whereas that natural use, when it pass beyond the compact of marriage, that is, beyond the necessity of begetting, is pardonable in the case of a wife, damnable in the case of an harlot; that which is against nature is execrable when done in the case of an harlot, but more execrable in the case of a wife… But, when the man shall wish to use the member of the wife not allowed for this purpose, the wife is more shameful, if she suffer it to take place in her own case, than if in the case of another woman.” (Augustine, On the Good of Marriage, section 12).

“And since the man who is too ardent a lover of his wife acts counter to the good of marriage if he use her indecently, although he be not unfaithful, he may in a sense be called an adulterer; and even more so than he that is too ardent a lover of another woman.” (Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II-II, Q. 154, article 8).

“Lastly comes the sin of not observing the right manner of copulation, which is more grievous if the abuse regards the ‘vas’ [vessel, orifice] than if it affects the manner of copulation in respect of other circumstances.” (Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II-II, Q. 154, article 12).

“Consequently, circumstances or intentions can never transform an act, intrinsically evil by virtue of its object, into an act ‘subjectively’ good or defensible as a choice.” (Pope John Paul II, Veritatis Splendor, n. 81)

“No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.” (Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae, n. 62)

“But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who, in exercising it, deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose, sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious.” (Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii, n. 54)

“No difficulty can arise that justifies the putting aside of the law of God which forbids all acts intrinsically evil. There is no possible circumstance in which husband and wife cannot, strengthened by the grace of God, fulfill faithfully their duties and preserve in wedlock their chastity unspotted.” (Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii, n. 61)

“For if with the aid of reason and of free will they are to control their natural drives, there can be no doubt at all of the need for self-denial. Only then will the expression of love, essential to married life, conform to right order.” (Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae, n. 21)
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Good luck!
 
I was watching Father John Corapi on EWTN and he was talking about the Holy Spirit.
He mentioned something that really caught my attention and it was about people claiming that what they are teaching in faith and morals is true when it is not according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. He said they will chocolate coat it to make it sound like it is true but it is evil.
There are people on this thread doing exactly that. What they are saying is false and causing all kinds of confusion for married couples when there is no need for it.
The people who are teaching the truth according to the Church is Father Chad Ripperger, Father Jos’e Lavastida and the priest from Poland that published the book The Kama Sutra of the Catholic Church which is backed by the Catholic Church in Poland as well as many other good Theologins and priests. You listen to them. No one else.
Anything else is false and it is lies do not listen to it.
I felt that I had a moral obligation to post this sionce the truth was brought to my attention and I realized what was happening on here.
So men you are not commiting sin by orally stimulating your wife in preperation for the Conjugal act no matter what these other people say
I hope I have helped some people here.

Antrim
 
FiberZilla said:
Psalm 127:3-5 says children are gifts from God and the man who has many of them is blessed. Children raised in a godly way will influence the world for the better and for God’s glory.

Condoms can be used for evil and selfish purposes. To me, the couple who practices any form of birth control strictly they don’t want to sell the Corvette are not seeking the will of God. Abortive forms of birth control are tantamount to murder.

However, nothing in scripture prohibits the couple who marries later in life, perhaps after the age of 40 from using non-abortive birth control rather than risk a dangerous pregnancy. They are really likely using good moral judgement. There are also people who feel as if they would not make good parents. Consider as well married people who are suffering with addictions, physical or mental health issues.

This would also apply to younger couples who with to delay childbearing for a time until they are more financially stable or have reached the number of children that they feel their family is complete.

I hope this explains my position somewhat.
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FiberZilla,
Code: 
          Catholics do not rely on sola scriptura.  Scripture alone is not all that Jesus taught us to use.  Remember Matt. 16 when Jesus said to Peter the (first pope)) "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Also there is this in John 16:12. Jesus says, "I still have many things to say to you but they would be too much for you now. But when the spirit of Truth comes He will lead you to the complete Truth.

When you say that it is ok to use non-abortive birth control later in life rather than risk a dangerous pregnancy this is absolutely wrong and not the teaching of the Catholic Church. We must trust in God’s plan for us. Contracepting is saying no to God and taking Him out of the marital act. It takes three to have a marriage. Many couples have perfectly normal pregnancies and babies after the age of 40. And many couples I have known who have a unique child say that it is the best thing that has ever happened to their family. Trust is God.

Now if a couple does not feel they would make good parents then why did they choose marriage. This would be an invalid marriage from the start because the couple must intend on having children from the beginning.

If one of the spouses is suffering from an addiction, physical or mental illness they would need to abstain from sexual relations until it is prudent to conceive a child. Many Catholics practice this all the time when one spouse is sick. Marriage is not all about sex and pleasure. The main purpose of marriage and family is to get each other to heaven by self- giving love and making sacrifices for others. Like the song,“So long self” by “Mercy Me.”

Couples can use NPF to space births for serious reasons. There are very good reasons why birth control is intrinsically evil. Please listen or read Dr. Janet Smith on “Contraception Why Not?”
 
Most people including Catholics are consumed with sex, Sex pleasure is worshipped by many
 
Lauds said:
Most people including Catholics are consumed with sex, Sex pleasure is worshipped by many
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And there is something wrong with this between two married\consenting adults? I’ve been happily married for over 20 years to the same lovely woman; the true love of my life. I can say, without fear of God looking down on me, I chase after her today, maybe even more, than I did when we were first married! Yes, I enjoy sex. I enjoy intimate relations with my wife, of all different sorts. As long as we “end” properly, there is nothing wrong with being consumed, as you say, with sex. 😃

Between two happily married people, it is one of the true pleasures of this life; and I whole heartily believe it was meant to be that way!
 
very pleasurable, thats why everyone does it, who waits for marriage, hardly anyone, they worship sex pleasure, thats what it`s all about with them they care not if they produce babies who they dont give a damn about etc. You are married go for it, You misunderstood my post, WE are not supposed to be consumed with sex, we are supposed to be consumed with Holiness, & your wife is not supposed to be just a sex object
 
CFI said:
Actually, Saint Alphonsus Mary De Liguori teaches that, when the wife has not the climax during a normal marital act, she can masturbate immediately after the intercourse.
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And round and round we go…masturbation is allowed in this circumstance. Somehow masturbation is no longer a grave sin. I will never understand this contradiction.
 
baylee said:
And round and round we go…masturbation is allowed in this circumstance. Somehow masturbation is no longer a grave sin. I will never understand this contradiction.
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I think the higher the level of granularity the Church attempts when defining what is right or wrong wrt sexuality, the higher the risk that she ends up contradicting herself.

Maybe she should have just stuck to saying:
  1. seeking sexual pleasure outside of marriage is wrong;
  2. seeking sexual pleasure that isn’t open to procreation within marriage, is wrong;
  3. open to procreation does not mean one cannot take advantage of Nature to avoid conception for legitimate reasons.
And left it at that.
 
OraLabora said:
I think the higher the level of granularity the Church attempts when defining what is right or wrong wrt sexuality, the higher the risk that she ends up contradicting herself.

Maybe she should have just stuck to saying:
  1. seeking sexual pleasure outside of marriage is wrong;
  2. seeking sexual pleasure that isn’t open to procreation within marriage, is wrong;
  3. open to procreation does not mean one cannot take advantage of Nature to avoid conception for legitimate reasons.
And left it at that.
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WoooooHooooo! 👍👍👍

Well said!! Succinct and accurate. You are so right. This isn’t rocket science. It’s sex.
 
What Mr Conte proposes is often impossible, which to me makes it unreasonable.

No (pleasureable) touching. Not sure if passionate kissing is gravely immoral but I’d have to assume it is since mouth to mouth touching seems equally moral/immoral as mouth (or hand) to other bodyparts. No stimulation of any kind.

So, lets assume Mr. Conte is correct. A married couple desire to have relations (which is probably immoral in itself because it implies the precondition of fantasy).

They enter thier bedroom; they look at each other without caressing. Now, just what is supposed to happen? The man without any fantasy of thought or physical stimulation of any kind is just supposed to spring into action? Maybe at 13 or 14 years old but what about the rest of us? It’s not only ridiculous, it’s cruel. Maybe I am reading something wrong here.

It’s seems absurd.
 
Good solid DEvout Catholics, will try to keep their sex capades morally acceptable to God, just because you are married doesnt mean you can do anything you want to sexually, , but if You think YOu can, then its absurd to deny any adult the right to sex pleasure, married or single, because it`s often impossible for people to contain themselves
 
MiJoy2
Plase read my Post. What these priests and Thologins say is the true teaching of the Church. not what anyone else says. Dont listen to them. It is false teaching.

Antrim
 
Lauds said:
Most people including Catholics are consumed with sex, Sex pleasure is worshipped by many
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As strange as it may seem, those with very loose morals are not nearly as consumed with sex as certain theologians and religious people who are aggressively at war with all forms of sexual pleasure even within the bounds of marriage.

In an attempt to live a “proper” moral life, these people often suffer terrible a obsession with sex and wind up scaring the daylights out of people as they try to control their own compulsions and fears.
 
Lauds said:
very pleasurable, thats why everyone does it, who waits for marriage, hardly anyone, they worship sex pleasure, thats what it`s all about with them they care not if they produce babies who they dont give a damn about etc. You are married go for it, You misunderstood my post, WE are not supposed to be consumed with sex, we are supposed to be consumed with Holiness, & your wife is not supposed to be just a sex object
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During sex, with one’s wife it is natural to be totally consumed. It’s a very physical experience that by nature demands full attention. All five senses are heightened. The sights, sounds, touch, taste and smell are all consuming and arguably the most incredibly pleasurable experiences we have during this life. It’s a shameful reality that some people consider this “objectification”.
 
FiberZilla said:
During sex, with one’s wife it is natural to be totally consumed. It’s a very physical experience that by nature demands full attention. All five senses are heightened. The sights, sounds, touch, taste and smell are all consuming and arguably the most incredibly pleasurable experiences we have during this life. It’s a shameful reality that some people consider this “objectification”.
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Yes, it is a shame. I am not judging anyone in this thread, but most of the people I know, that hold the thought that sex, between man and wife, can only be done for the sake of procreation, in the missionary position, while all the while not enjoying it, are generally hiding\masking a deep, deep psychological issue that stems from either a very bad experience, a hidden “addiction”, or a very, very poor education, most likely during childhood, about what sexual relations are meant to be between man and wife.

The fact that these same people attempt to tell me, or my wife, what the correct way for us to have sex is, can be rather disturbing. I’ll generally tell them thanks, but I’ll stick to the rules set forth by the Church, and of course, God.
 
rotlex said:
Yes, it is a shame. I am not judging anyone in this thread, but most of the people I know, that hold the thought that sex, between man and wife, can only be done for the sake of procreation, in the missionary position, while all the while not enjoying it, are generally hiding\masking a deep, deep psychological issue that stems from either a very bad experience, a hidden “addiction”, or a very, very poor education, most likely during childhood, about what sexual relations are meant to be between man and wife.

The fact that these same people attempt to tell me, or my wife, what the correct way for us to have sex is, can be rather disturbing. I’ll generally tell them thanks, but I’ll stick to the rules set forth by the Church, and of course, God.
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Masturbation & sex outside of marriage is all good!
 
Lauds said:
Masturbation & sex outside of marriage is all good!
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Not quite sure where that came from, considering my post talked only about relations within marriage, between husband and wife. Perhaps you are just a bit uptight due to some past un-pleasurable experience?

I’ll pray for you. 🙂
 
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