Maronite Monks of Adoration

[TrueLight]

Does communion with Rome mean we should all just become Roman Catholics then…? Adopt their liturgy, theology and spirituality? Sure would make things easier! Why not just disband the Eastern Catholic churches…either return to your Orthodox counterpart or become a Roman Catholic.

I’m so happy you answered, Ciero. I wanted to refer to your general hope that the Eastern Catholics should become re-absorbed into the Orthodox church but I couldn’t remember your name and couldn’t find the post.

I personally think the Orthodox church is awesome. It just so happens I love the EF form of the Latin mass, but I definitely will attend Eastern Catholic or Orthodox services in the future every now and then.

However, I am puzzled as to why Rome encourages communion when it seems for some of the churches, it is like leading a donkey to water.

How is one in communion when one doesn’t accept Papal Infallibility and Papal Primacy?

I admit that I probably don’t understand all the tenets of “communion” but that is my general feeling.

Edited to add: Here is the quote I was referring to:

Byzantine Catholics MUST disappear if we are to live out our vocation…we must become Orthodox.

 

[dzheremi]

This thread demonstrates why the Maronites will never gain their former glory en masse: bad (perhaps simply ignorant) clerical decisions passed on for the consumption of further generations.

Monks completely unaware of their own traditions (however adopted); it is simply embarrassing.

THANK YOU. I mean, it’s awful, but you’re right, and it is good to see this reality acknowledged by a Maronite, rather than brushed off or explained away. This whole mentality towards Maronite spirituality displayed in this thread doesn’t wash. If the monks of this monastery were doing any other kind of work, they’d be fired for that attitude. “Sure it’s broken, but it was like that when I got here, boss! Honest!” Right, right…you didn’t do it, you’re just continuing it and mad that anyone should call you out for that. I’m sorry, but I expect a little better than that from people who have supposedly dedicated themselves to this tradition, especially as monks.

 

[ciero]

I’m so happy you answered, Ciero. I wanted to refer to your general hope that the Eastern Catholics should become re-absorbed into the Orthodox church but I couldn’t remember your name and couldn’t find the post.

I personally think the Orthodox church is awesome. It just so happens I love the EF form of the Latin mass, but I definitely will attend Eastern Catholic or Orthodox services in the future.

However, I am puzzled as to why Rome encourages communion when it seems for some of the churches, it is like leading a donkey to water.

How is one in communion when one doesn’t accept Papal Infallibility and Papal Primacy?

I admit that I probably don’t understand all the tenets of “communion” but that is my general feeling.

In the first 1000 years of the church the “Orthodox” were in communion with Rome and never accepted these and other tenets of the Latin Church…why should we be forced to today? And are you arguing for the disbanding of the Eastern churches?

And why would you consider it leading a donkey to water for a church to want to adhere to it’s own traditions…especially when these were promised to the Eastern churches by Rome when they came back into communion in the first place?

 

[TrueLight]

In the first 1000 years of the church the “Orthodox” were in communion with Rome and never accepted these and other tenets of the Latin Church…why should we be forced to today? And are you arguing for the disbanding of the Eastern churches?

Absolutely not. and lose all its traditions and beautiful liturgy? Seems like you were advocating disbanding.

And why would you consider it leading a donkey to water for a church to want to adhere to it’s own traditions…especially when these were promised to the Eastern churches by Rome when they came back into communion in the first place?

I admit that maybe I don’t understand what was promised. I know there is a thread on here somewhere about what “communion” actually means.

However, why be in communion with Rome if your vocation, as you put it is to not be in “Catholic”, however that is defined, but to be “Orthodox”?

 

[frmgc]

THANK YOU. I mean, it’s awful, but you’re right, and it is good to see this reality acknowledged by a Maronite, rather than brushed off or explained away. This whole mentality towards Maronite spirituality displayed in this thread doesn’t wash. If the monks of this monastery were doing any other kind of work, they’d be fired for that attitude. “Sure it’s broken, but it was like that when I got here, boss! Honest!” Right, right…you didn’t do it, you’re just continuing it and mad that anyone should call you out for that. I’m sorry, but I expect a little better than that from people who have supposedly dedicated themselves to this tradition, especially as monks.

We dedicated ourselves to do what God asks of us. And AFAIK, He hasn’t asked us to reform the liturgy according to our own tastes and judgment … or yours.

Any other kind of work in the secular setting would suppose that we could “take the law in our own hands”. Obedience is better than sacrifice and it’s better to suffer injustice that commit it. So we will “suffer” the liturgy as is.

It’s not our right to take the liturgy in our own hands and do as we please. However much needs to be done, we will not usurp authority and do it ourselves — that’s an attitude typical of heretics and schismatics.

United in adoration of Jesus,

fr. michael gilmary, mma

 

[dzheremi]

You’ve completely missed the point, but okay. Do as you wish.

 

[yeshua]

We dedicated ourselves to do what God asks of us. And AFAIK, He hasn’t asked us to reform the liturgy according to our own tastes and judgment … or yours.

Any other kind of work in the secular setting would suppose that we could “take the law in our own hands”. Obedience is better than sacrifice and it’s better to suffer injustice that commit it. So we will “suffer” the liturgy as is.

It’s not our right to take the liturgy in our own hands and do as we please. However much needs to be done, we will not usurp authority and do it ourselves — that’s an attitude typical of heretics and schismatics.

United in adoration of Jesus,

fr. michael gilmary, mma

As monastics, it is your obligation to be our spiritual models regardless that it is your adopted tradition. No one is asking you personally to practice different rubrics (though it happens for more than your sensibilities or bishop would like others to know).

• Using the veil is allowed and obedient to your tradition.
• Ad orientem is allowed and obedient to your tradition.
• Proper and consistent chanting of the liturgy, whatever the rubrics used, is allowed and obedient to your tradition.
• Abstaining from Eucharistic Adoration is allowed and obedient to your tradition.
• Praying the shimo is allowed and obedient to your tradition.
• Practicing and encouraging the ancient fast is allowed and obedient to your tradition.
• Full vestments (you should know what I’m referring to) and using an Oriental cross is allowed and obedient to your tradition.

These things you can all do without violating your bishop’s mandate and the rubrics of the church. Do you do these things? Do you actively engage in the conversation of renewal?

When Rome was anything but apathetic and wished to “encourage” the Romanization of our people, she started in the monasteries because, as our leaders so often pronounce, it is our “monastic tradition” that has sustained us and continues to globally define us. Your monastic capacities wouldn’t exist if weren’t for Maronite monks standing up throughout the centuries saying “no” to the denigration of tradition. Your insinuation leads those men to the labels of schismatics, yet they are your forebears!

To see you shuffle off that recognition as a matter of “proper obedience” makes this thread even further disheartening. That same responsibility is incumbent upon you to act accordingly, don’t idle away that great obligation.

 

[ciero]

Absolutely not. and lose all its traditions and beautiful liturgy? Seems like you were advocating disbanding.

I admit that maybe I don’t understand what was promised. I know there is a thread on here somewhere about what “communion” actually means.

However, why be in communion with Rome if your vocation, as you put it is to not be in “Catholic”, however that is defined, but to be “Orthodox”?

Nowhere did I ever say it was anybody’s vocation to not be Catholic…do you not consider our Orthodox brethren to be Catholic?..or are we Catholics not Orthodox?..think about that for a while.

You ask why be Catholic…that is the million $$ question…here is my answer.
I truly believe in the importance of being in communion with the bishop of Rome, therefor I am a Byzantine Catholic in communion with Rome. That said I also believe the Eastern churches have a vocation to live our traditions as fully as possible and to be a witness to our Orthodox brothers and sisters that Orthodoxy can be lived while in communion with Rome, without any compromise. This vocation is not always an easy vocation to live, but I do feel it is important. It would have been much easier on myself and my family to just have become Orthodox years ago. I have chosen to live this vocation of an Eastern Catholic in communion with Rome to the best of my ability and to promote it to anyone who will listen.

Hope this gives you an idea of where I am coming from!

Ciero

 

[TrueLight]

Nowhere did I ever say it was anybody’s vocation to not be Catholic…do you not consider our Orthodox brethren to be Catholic?..or are we Catholics not Orthodox?..think about that for a while.

I simply didn’t know which word to use to differentiate. Since you call yourselves Eastern Catholic, I used Catholic versus Orthodox.

It would have been much easier on myself and my family to just have become Orthodox years ago.

Why do you say that?

Hope this gives you an idea of where I am coming from!

It does!

 

[ciero]

I simply didn’t know which word to use to differentiate. Since you call yourselves Eastern Catholic, I used Catholic versus Orthodox.

**Why do you say that?
**

It does!

I say that because to stay in the Catholic communion has seemed over the years like you have to be on the defensive all the time. Constantly justifying your self to fellow Catholics as well as Orthodox. Advocating that you can be fully Orthodox (and trying to live a fully Orthodox life) and still be in communion with Rome dosent make for many friends…Thank God things are changing in that department now! I guess things are starting to pay off.

 

[frmgc]

*] Abstaining from Eucharistic Adoration is allowed and obedient to your tradition.

No, it’s just the opposite: we have an obligation of 2 hours of mental prayer in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament exposed each day. Our Typicon goes so far as to say:

“If we are faithful to this unrenounceable obligation, we can be confident that all the other gains of monastic perfection will follow in its wake.”

Our Maronite tradition admits of new charisms, no? The Maronite Church and the Holy See think so, otherwise we wouldn’t have received the blessings of the Church.

These things you can all do without violating your bishop’s mandate and the rubrics of the church. Do you do these things? Do you actively engage in the conversation of renewal?

Yes and Yes. Yet, we aren’t seeking to be “more Maronite than the Maronites”. You can ask our Bishop if we have ever engaged him on these topics.

When Rome was anything but apathetic and wished to “encourage” the Romanization of our people, she started in the monasteries because, as our leaders so often pronounce, it is our “monastic tradition” that has sustained us and continues to globally define us. Your monastic capacities wouldn’t exist if weren’t for Maronite monks standing up throughout the centuries saying “no” to the denigration of tradition. Your insinuation leads those men to the labels of schismatics, yet they are your forebears!

Yet it was St. Nimtallah Hardini who complained that the monks weren’t being faithful to their contemplative life. Who stood up with him? Our founder has told us repeatedly over the years that it’s not our duty to “reform” things Maronite: our fidelity is to the contemplative vocation here. Which doesn’t exclude our desire and effort to retain/restore the traditions, but you probably understand that for “imports” like us, no one listens since we are always told we don’t know the tradition. You tell us the same.

United in adoration of Jesus,

fr. michael gilmary, mma

 

[The_Idiot]

Fr Michael,

I remain puzzled

I asked you a further question in post 148 - about the canonical enrolment of your members - your website states that at present all members of the Community are Roman Rite

I don’t want answers about ascription - I am just asking for a simple yes or no

Are the members of your Maronite Community fully Maronite by their canonical enrolment ?

If they are why has the Website not been corrected ?

 

[frmgc]

Fr Michael,

I remain puzzled

I asked you a further question in post 148 - about the canonical enrolment of your members - your website states that at present all members of the Community are Roman Rite

I don’t want answers about ascription - I am just asking for a simple yes or no

Are the members of your Maronite Community fully Maronite by their canonical enrolment ?

16/18 are Latin by Baptism (ascription) and accomodated to the Maronites. 2/18 are Maronite by ascription.

If they are why has the Website not been corrected ?

I suppose because we need somebody like you to read it and tell us it needs an update. Most of us don’t use the internet or email … which reminds me …

United in adoration of Jesus,

fr. michael gilmary, mma

 

[ninan]

Adoration Monastery of Mount Tabore

Adoration Monastery of the Sisters of Mount Tabor is a Contemplative community of the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church. The late Archbishop Benedict Mar Gregorios had a special interest in forming a community of contemplatives in the Malankara Catholic Church. While His Beatitude the late Major Archbishop Moran Mor Cyril Baselios Catholicos had taken much more interest in having a monastic life with perpectual Adoration in Malankara atholic Church. Thus the Adoration Monastery came into existence. The main charism of the sisters of Mount Tabor is to pray for the reunion movement which will be fulfilled by the Adoration of the Holy Eucharist. The Sisters take obligation to praying mainly for priests, religious and the laity that is to say for the whole Catholic Church, above all for the sanctification of all priests and religious.

Sr. Mary Veronica PCPA a solemn professed Nun of the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration (a former member of the Malankara Catholic Church) at her own risk left her motherhouse (the Adoration Monastery of Kollam of the Latin Church) with a great desire of starting a life of Adoration in a monastic community in the Eastern Church.

With the help and support of His Grace Benedict Mar Gregorios, the late Archbishop of Trivandrum started a monastic life in the Archdiocese of Trivandrum on 18 March 1978 at Nedumangadu. At that time, there were only two members, r. Mary Veronica and Sr. Mary Roselin. After some more members joined them. A few months later the community was shifted to a rented house at Chirattakonam, a village of Kottarakara. On the month of November 1980 they allotted to them. There they lived a Semi-Cloistered Contemplative community life according to the Constitution of the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration. Later in a few more members joined the community.

By the help and the support of the late Archbishop Cyril Mar Baselios started a strict monastic life and the community got their constitutions approved by the Holy See on18 January 1998. A more suitable place for prayer and contemplation was given them and the monastic life was established on 18 March 2001 at Thattathumala, Trivandrum. On the following day, in the presence of many priests, religious and laity, His Grace Cyril Mar Baselios inaugurated the Public adoration by exposing the Most Blessed Sacrament in the monastery Chapel. From think forward the Blessed Sacrament is exposed and the sisters are engaged mainly in adoration at all times.

The first five sisters made their solemn Profession officially in the presence of His Beatitude the late Major Archbishop Moran Mor Cyril Baselios Catholicos on 22 March 2005.

There are seven sisters at present besides a novice and a postulant. The religious constitutions are based on the Franciscan Rules and they lead a life of prayer, penance and strict enclosure. They spend their lives for the glory of God for the salvation and sanctification of whole Church. Now the monastery is progressing by the love, blessings and support of His Beatitude Moran Mor Baselios Cleemis Catholicos and all our Bishops and Priests of the Malankara Catholic Church.

 

[ninan]

Fr Michael,
Adoration and contemplation are all fine.However I am puzzled to see that you are more ‘LATINISED’ than any other Eastern Catholic rite.
Do you have any Eastern practices other than chants in ‘Aramaic’ during liturgy.Your vestments,turning towards West etc…are all latinised.
Sorry.It’s hard to take you as a Eastern Catholic Rite.

Why do you ape Latins blindly.???

Remember being Catholic,is not to be ‘Roman’.

 

[Aramis]

Ninan:

By his descriptions, it’s fair to say that, aside from daily adoration, these holy monks are living a fairly delatinized lifestyle… for Maronites.

The Maronite church itself is highly latinized, and is delatinizing, and arguing over which latinizations have become authentic to the Maronite Recension by longstanding use.

As a Church Sui Iuris, just what is or is not part of proper Maronite life is up to their synod. If they have decided that Adoration has become authentic Maronite tradition, so be it. It’s their call to make.

Some of us are “interrogating” the hieromonk not in opposition to their praxis, but in curiosity to learn just what their praxis is.

These men have made a huge commitment: to live a life of prayer and sacrifice, and obedience to the Maronite Synod. They are to be encouraged in that, even if their praxis is latinized through no fault of theirs.

 

[Catholicguy45]

Aramis: Very well said! I have known this community for about 6 years. They are solid and orthodox. They have the blessing of the Maronite church.

 

[ciero]

Aramis: Very well said! I have known this community for about 6 years. They are solid and orthodox. They have the blessing of the Maronite church.

What makes you say they’re orthodox? From what their monks say it seems they’re not. Eucharistic Adoration= not orthodox for Easterners.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

What makes you say they’re orthodox? From what their monks say it seems they’re not. Eucharistic Adoration= not orthodox for Easterners.

Adoration of the Holy Eucharist brings you closer to God - it is right and orthodox.

 

[Catholicguy45]

orthodox - Correct. I did not use capital.