Marriage/Annulment/etc

[KCtheMommy]

From the OP’s description, a very, very, sick mother. If she was known to have cancer rather than this seemingly undiagnosed set of symptoms, how would we respond? :hug1:

Amen.

I think she’s sick, not just addiction – and let me tell you, only sometimes is pain medication dependancy an actual “addiction.” Class A Narcotics are so entrenched into dopamine receptors that one feels as though they have to have the medication to even survive. It’s not the “high” – it’s actual physical dependency. You can be dependent while not “addicted.” Look my point is I went through the same thing. I went through horrible physical withdrawals – I can’t even begin to tell you the hell associated with that, I mean it was bad. My husband had to take a week off of work and just take over for me while I suffered so greatly. I contemplated suicide it was so intense and painful, physically painful. That was almost two years ago. I did not suffer long term depression. I did not stay in bed all day. I did not take my kids to day care so I could lie around. I was physically incapacitated for about a week, meaning unable to get out of bed. After that it took a few months for my brain to get straight. But I went about life like usual even if I felt a bit foggy. I’m telling you it sounds like something more.

I would be devastated if my DH walked out on me if I couldn’t get out of bed or needed help. We have been through so much together with the pain, the surgeries, and the meds. Through all of that – he has been a constant support. Heck he may even have resentment for times he had to handle my job and his, but he hasn’t said so, and I certainly never fear he would leave me for it.

This thread is making me so sad. I need to get off of it now.

Good luck OP, I hope you help to get your wife the help/treatment she needs.

 

[Sarabande]

Actually, yes, I get migraines several times a year. Having a chronic, painful condition does not REQUIRE one to become a drug addict. KCtheMommy has said that much on this thread.

I agree there may be depression here, too. But that doesn’t require one to become a drug addict either.

There is a choice. People who become addicts make the wrong one. Sure, it’s influenced by other factors, but so is every choice.

I still agree with Bama.

The thing is, if there is depression, we don’t know how severe the depression is. If anyone has had severe depression or knew someone with severe depression, it is many times - initially - not a choice. Once a person admits to being depressed or realizes he/she has severe depression, then there is the choice of seeking help to become better or to go another route. If his wife is depressed, she may not realize it. I believe he should first try to seek help from other doctors and psychotherapists to determine if she is truly clinically depressed, then go from there.

Also, as a daughter of a doctor who was also a pharmacist prior to becoming a doctor (thus one of the few doctors who really know about medications and is not a pill pusher), and with a mother who is also a nurse and has suffered severe migraines for decades, to prescribe narcotics to combat migraines is something that many doctors would not do because of how easy it is to become addicted to it. They need to get a second, third, fourth opinion to help with this. My mother has never used narcotics for her migraines, nor has many of the other women I know who suffer from it on a regular basis to the point where the vomit and do many other things.

That said, now that this woman seems to be addicted to the narcotics, she might be using it to mask her depression. It’s not the right “choice” to make, but she also may not be in the right frame of mind to make the right choices, which also has to be considered. Thus, her husband and other family who loves her, needs to come in, take the bull by the horns and get her help.

If anything, move the child with his family while he works very hard to get his wife the help that she truly needs. The bring the child back once things are better. But to separate and not help his wife, would be the wrong thing to do. There are still many more options before giving up.

 

[Nordar]

From the OP’s description, a very, very, sick mother. If she was known to have cancer rather than this seemingly undiagnosed set of symptoms, how would we respond? :hug1:

Exactly, I do not think she is just staying in bed to sleep all day.
I know exactly what she is going through. I have suffered with chronic migraines for years, I say chronic because when I get them I have them anywhere from 4 to 6 days. The pain is so excruciating that I am flat on my back in bed. I cannot move my head because the pain is so severe.

They also cause depression, they have interfered in every area of my life. I missed 2 of my childrens Graduations because of them
I cannot tell you how many family things I could not attend. I cannot make any kind of plans, such as vacation because I never know when one will hit.
Narcotics being pretty much the only thing that dulls the pain, does not take it away. However the dangerous thing with narcotics is that they cause rebound headaches. You can get another migraine that was caused by the narcotics.

No one and I mean no one understands the pain or the havoc they cause in a person’s life.

For the OP I am sorry this is happening, my heart truly goes out to your wife, I tend to get really angry when anyone dismisses what migraines can do to a person.

 

[Nordar]

People cannot make the choice to either have cancer or not have cancer. People can make the choice whether to take drugs or not! I am sick of addiction being called a disease. If you can choose to stop having it, it is not a disease!

I agree with Bama. That is an answer that is both commonsensical and compassionate. It gives the daughter safety and stability, removes an unsafe influence, and still reaches back to the person in trouble to offer help.

dhgray, people like you keep even the unhealthiest marriages together. Even THE CHURCH agrees that in some cases, separate living and even civil divorce are necessary to preserve safety, dignity, and human rights. If the most anti-divorce church in the world says that, then there must be some good reasons!

And this is the kind of thing that makes me angry, unless you have lived with pain of migraines you do not have the right to tell someone they should not be taking medication.
I quite frankly am sick of people dismissing migraines as if they were nothing.

I have 4 grown children that I love very much, so I should have had them taking away from me because I suffer with chronic migraines?
It does not have a thing to do with unhealthy marriages. this woman suffers she had no choice in the matter. She just cannot wish the migraines away they unfortunatly are a part of her.

 

[Nordar]

you would be teaching your duaghter a great lesson …

[SIGN]WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH QUIT.[/SIGN]

And what would that be, that her mother is a bad mother or bad person because she has migraines? I am very gratefull that my husband did not teach my children that lesson!

 

[basilisk]

And this is the kind of thing that makes me angry, unless you have lived with pain of migraines you do not have the right to tell someone they should not be taking medication.
I quite frankly am sick of people dismissing migraines as if they were nothing.

I’m not… did you miss my second post where I said:

Actually, yes, I get migraines several times a year. Having a chronic, painful condition does not REQUIRE one to become a drug addict.

So, now am I qualified to have an opinion? I am even one of those fortunate souls who gets the very rare symptom of aura… flashing white lights in my field of vision. They are my warning that a migraine is coming on. I never said someone should not take medication, I said they should not choose to be a drug addict. There is a BIG difference. Rush Limbaugh, when he got addicted to pain meds after his back surgery, admitted that while he had real pain and did need pain medication, the point at which he became an addict was when he took more and more just because he liked the feeling it gave him. Some people want that high to escape… that is probably the case with the OP’s wife. I agree he needs to go and get other opinions… narcotics for migraines seemed odd to me too. Seems like an inexperienced doctor. OP, you do need to take your wife to the doctor, stay with her, describe EVERYTHING, and get some real, effective help. You cannot sit on the sidelines and say, well the doctors failed her, and think you have no blame if you did not work your butt off getting her to better doctors. In this country (the U.S.) there is no excuse for that.

If anything, move the child with his family while he works very hard to get his wife the help that she truly needs. The bring the child back once things are better. But to separate and not help his wife, would be the wrong thing to do. There are still many more options before giving up.

I couldn’t disagree with this more. The child will see this as abandonment. The child knows there are problems, and that something is very wrong with Mommy. Sending her away will make her think the problems are her fault. That is something that may never be totally healed. Do NOT send your child away. Bama’s advice was much better. You go with the child to a safe, stable place and still parent her, and do everything you can to help your wife alongside that effort.

 

[Nordar]

Actually, yes, I get migraines several times a year. Having a chronic, painful condition does not REQUIRE one to become a drug addict. KCtheMommy has said that much on this thread.

I agree there may be depression here, too. But that doesn’t require one to become a drug addict either.

There is a choice. People who become addicts make the wrong one. Sure, it’s influenced by other factors, but so is every choice.

I still agree with Bama.

Who has said she is an addict? Is that diagnoses of what the OP said?

 

[basilisk]

Who has said she is an addict? Is that diagnoses of what the OP said?

She has been on a couple of narcotics since then (about 3 years). She has been basically laying in bed for most of this time. She was never classified as being addicted and hates to hear those words but she went to a migraine rehab right before Christmas 2007 to get off the narcotics. This lasted about a month before her doctor put her back on them, saying it was the only solution for the headaches. So, another year of this until she decides to go into a real rehab around Thanksgiving 2008 (this year).

One does not have to be officially diagnosed to be an addict. I would guess that no one gets diagnosed an addict by a doctor. The OP says he thinks his wife is an addict, and I believe him, as he is the one living with her.

 

[BamaRider]

Dang some of y’all need to read the ENTIRE post.

After two weeks, she gets out and the daily headaches are gone. She gets the migraines every now and then, though, but she is not taking any narcotics (as far as I know). This whole time, though, she is still always tired and does not want to do anything but lay in bed and watch tv most of the time.

Now I take from this, the lady just won’t get outta the bed and do anything. I’m not saying migraines are not bad, I gave the advice on seperation for a while based on the OP. I’m just going by what he said, the migraines are not the problem.

We didn’t go to Thanksgiving because a string of emails between my wife and my siblings started a small civil war in the family. We decided to go to Christmas for the day because we wanted our daughter to spend it with the other kids. It was not a good time. My wife and siblings basically ignored each other the whole time. My wife and I got into a major fight due to this on the way home (nice 3 hour drive).

Now some of y’all are telling us this little girl is better off in daycare everyday, witnessing in fighting and controversey, and who knows what else as opposed with being her father, in a loving stable home? Where she is surrouned by those that love her and care about her, and not in daycare by folks who are PAID to watch her?

Certainly the mother needs help and help and support it could be she is severly depressed I dunno, but she is a problem, cause what she’s doin ain’t right. Nobody said anything about taking the little girl away from her, but in her current condition is she even gonna miss her? Maybe I don’t know much, but it seems to me as the father I wouldn’t want my daughter to see her mother like this, or for her to think this is normal, but that’s just me.

I isolate the problem, secure my little girl in a wholesome enviroment, and then do what I needed to do to help my wife. If y’all think the little girl is better off in that house, then I reckon we all have opinions, and for sure I’m no expert.

 

[Nordar]

I’m not… did you miss my second post where I said:

So, now am I qualified to have an opinion? I am even one of those fortunate souls who gets the very rare symptom of aura… flashing white lights in my field of vision. They are my warning that a migraine is coming on. I never said someone should not take medication, I said they should not choose to be a drug addict. There is a BIG difference. Rush Limbaugh, when he got addicted to pain meds after his back surgery, admitted that while he had real pain and did need pain medication, the point at which he became an addict was when he took more and more just because he liked the feeling it gave him. Some people want that high to escape… that is probably the case with the OP’s wife. I agree he needs to go and get other opinions… narcotics for migraines seemed odd to me too. Seems like an inexperienced doctor. OP, you do need to take your wife to the doctor, stay with her, describe EVERYTHING, and get some real, effective help. You cannot sit on the sidelines and say, well the doctors failed her, and think you have no blame if you did not work your butt off getting her to better doctors. In this country (the U.S.) there is no excuse for that.

No one who takes pain pills for migraines is choosing to become an addict.
Narcotics for migraines is not an odd thing for doctors to give. They are the only thing that helps dull the pain, they are not given by inexperienced doctors.
I have been going to Montifeior Headache clinic for years, the doctor in charge there is one of the leading experts on migraines, he will give narcotics if the pain is so bad, nothing inexperienced about him.

What kind of help do you think the doctors can give her?
I have been on every migraine med, I could give you a long list, from inderal, to Imitrex none of them work. There are approximately 20,000 migraine suffers who get no relief from any of the preventive migraine medicine on the market. So if she happens to be one of them like I am Just what is your suggestion for the Doctors.
No excuse? are you in the medical field do you study the cause and effect of mirgraines and what would be a cure for them? because if you don’t your judgemental attitude is totlly uncalled for.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

We are, of course, only getting the OP’s view of the situation. . .and he could be wrong. It is very difficult to make an informed and intelligent decision when so much essential knowledge of the situation (the woman’s ‘side’, what exactly transpired --symptoms, duration, treatments; everything the ‘family’ had been saying, etc.,) isn’t there. That, I think, is why so many people (myself included) have urged that a third party–a professional, either doctor, pain specialist, marriage counselor, or all three–should be consulted.

 

[BamaRider]

We are, of course, only getting the OP’s view of the situation. . .and he could be wrong. It is very difficult to make an informed and intelligent decision when so much essential knowledge of the situation (the woman’s ‘side’, what exactly transpired --symptoms, duration, treatments; everything the ‘family’ had been saying, etc.,) isn’t there. That, I think, is why so many people (myself included) have urged that a third party–a professional, either doctor, pain specialist, marriage counselor, or all three–should be consulted.

You make a good point here. The fire dept sent me to a couple of schools for family counseling because of the unique stress of the job. Basically I just listened and sent them to more fomally trained people. I was just the first one to get the vent.

I quickly learned always 2 sides to a story and the truth is gonna be in the middle somehwere.

No excuse? are you in the medical field do you study the cause and effect of mirgraines and what would be a cure for them? because if you don’t your judgemental attitude is totlly uncalled for.

I think you’re being a little too hard on Basilisk, she didn’t mean for anyone to think migraines are not difficult, I think she was referring to the wannabes. She’s good people.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

You are so right about the ‘middle’, Guy.

I think Nordar was the one who made the ‘second’ quote you referenced above. (Just wanted to make sure people didn’t confuse it and think because you quoted me in the first quote, that it was me in the second one too).

Pain’s a tough subject; it’s very subjective and everybody reacts differently. Plus, we tend to react to other people’s pain differently too. Some people are ‘nurse’ types who are always sympathetic; others are drill sargeants who are always UNsympathetic. Some people are sympathetic to people if they themselves have suffered that pain; some people are unsympathetic to people if they’ve suffered that pain. Some people are sympathetic to other people because the people remind them of loved ones. Some people are unsympathetic to other people because they remind them of ‘not-so-loved ones’.

And so on. . .
This is from the ‘nurse’ type who goes into hyper “Mom” mode with just about anybody who is suffering physical pain, most anybody suffering from emotional pain, etc. There are very few people I can’t make some ‘excuse’ for, or find some sympathy for. . .it’s just the way I am when it comes to illness. I just want to help them get better. But even in my own family, among my loved ones, some of them have very different attitudes (not necessarily BAD attitudes, but different attitudes). . .usually more of the ‘drill sargeant’ type of ‘tough it out’.

I leave you to guess, though, which one is most often called upon when somebody in the family is sick. . .

 

[Nordar]

You make a good point here. The fire dept sent me to a couple of schools for family counseling because of the unique stress of the job. Basically I just listened and sent them to more fomally trained people. I was just the first one to get the vent.

I quickly learned always 2 sides to a story and the truth is gonna be in the middle somehwere.

I think you’re being a little too hard on Basilisk, she didn’t mean for anyone to think migraines are not difficult, I think she was referring to the wannabes. She’s good people.

I never said she was not good people, what are wannabes?
She very clearly said that people who have migraines and take narcotics choose to become addicts.

Quote: . “Some people want that high to escape… that is probably the case with the OP’s wife.”

That was a totally uncalled for judgemental statement.

 

[Sarabande]

I couldn’t disagree with this more. The child will see this as abandonment. The child knows there are problems, and that something is very wrong with Mommy. Sending her away will make her think the problems are her fault. That is something that may never be totally healed. Do NOT send your child away. Bama’s advice was much better. You go with the child to a safe, stable place and still parent her, and do everything you can to help your wife alongside that effort.

I did not make myself clear about this. I agree with Bama in regards to placing the daughter in a more nurturing environment if that is the last resort, so that she won’t have to suffer the stress of dealing with two very unhappy parents - one with a potential mental illness and perhaps an addiction. The thing is, I believe separation of any kind should be a last resort at least in this situation. Although, I am also aware that I don’t know the entire situation and this might actually be the best thing for the family. Sometimes, it can work if the husband moves in with his family with the daughter. But sometimes, that can’t happen either, so what might be the better thing is to make sure the daughter is in a very safe and nurturing environment with family members while the husband and wife get things straightened out. That may mean the safest and most nurturing environment is for her to be with a close family member. So, he and his family would have to work very hard to ensure that the child does not feel abandoned, etc.

No matter which way you cut it, though, the child will be affected by it no matter how much one tries to protect her from the pain and stress of the entire situation. If it is as horrible as the OP described, she may eventually need counseling now or when she is older. Moving with her to a safe place or not will still affect her because she is still going to wonder why Mommy can’t be with them and she may still even blame herself. No matter what living situation is chosen, it’s the father’s job to make her feel as secure and loved as possible since the mother is not mentally or physically able to.

What I definitely do not agree with is the thought of the husband just separating from the wife and giving up on her. There are still many more things that he can do to try to make it work. Once they are all exhausted and one or the other is doing nothing to help with the wife’s healing process, then that might be the time to think about separation.

But this is all conjecture and supposition since none of us really know the entire story or situation. As my cousin told me once when he was going through a rough patch with his dad, “There’s his story, my story and then there’s the truth.”

I pray that God will guide the OP so that the three of them will find peace and both he and his wife will work things out.

 

[Irish_Becca]

I’m so sorry about your situation. I’m having a very rough time in my marriage, too. I’ll pray for you.

 

[chevalier]

Aggie, there’s the, “in sickness and in health,” part, right? Your wife is sick. As the other posters have said, you need to take her to a doctor. That should be the top concern, not getting her to do the chores or getting freed of her. Dealing with her problems is not her own responsibility, but also yours. This is because you are husband and wife. If she stays in bed and watches TV all the time and she wasn’t lazy before, it means one thing - either the disease or the drugs are affecting her. And that means she needs help. Seriously.

Also, what your family members think is not as important as what you think with regard to your wife. Marriage creates family ties (affinity), but your wife didn’t marry your siblings or parents. From your post it seems like their opinion is more important to you than your own. That shouldn’t be the case. I’m not telling you to become an egoist, but you must keep in mind that marriage is between you and your wife and meeting your family’s praise has never been a condition of it. She is your primary family now and if you had to choose, which I wouldn’t wish on you, you’d have to choose her.

“Annulment”, which is properly a declaration of nullity, is not an act by which a marriage is made null, like a retroactive divorce. A marriage is either null from the beginning or not null at all. What happens later may only be evidence of what was before, at the point when marriage was being contracted, but in itself it doesn’t allow one to “annul” a marriage. It is not the same thing as divorce.

 

[BamaRider]

never said she was not good people, what are wannabes?

Folks that kinda like being sick, and when ya tawk to them they NEVER feel good, always got something wrong, when in actuality they’re fine.

Still think ya was too hard on Basil.

 

[Nordar]

Folks that kinda like being sick, and when ya tawk to them they NEVER feel good, always got something wrong, when in actuality they’re fine.

Still think ya was too hard on Basil.

I know what wannabes means I was saying in your context that is not what Basil was saying.
Well you can think what you want, I Was disagreeing with her take on migraines, if that is being too hard on someone then maybe they should not post. , portraying people with migraine headaches as drug addicts is undefendable.
The very first post she posted said she is sick of drug addicts saying it is a desease.,when no on was saying anything about addicts just talking about migraines. I think she was way to harse with on the wife of the OP.
If you claim to have migraines and then go on to say that the doctors who give narcotics are inexperienced then one has to wonder just what kind of migraines you have.
To say the wife of the OP is probably taking drugs just to get high, is also undefendable. The OP never said that so how is it that someone can infer that she is?
Also to tell the OP to get a separation and that his wife is in bed all day sleeping is absurd. We have only the OP’s version of what is going on so how on earth can anyone tell him to get a separation on one post.
As the above poster said Marriage is for better or worse, in sickness and in health.He needs to help his wife not leave her, what he needs to do is seperate himself from what his family’s oppinion is.

 

[iluvmybabies]

My wife and I have been married for almost 4 years now. My wife has been having issues with severe migraines ever since becoming pregnant with our daughter (who is 25 months old now, so about 3 years). She has been on a couple of narcotics since then (about 3 years). She has been basically laying in bed for most of this time. She was never classified as being addicted and hates to hear those words but she went to a migraine rehab right before Christmas 2007 to get off the narcotics. This lasted about a month before her doctor put her back on them, saying it was the only solution for the headaches. So, another year of this until she decides to go into a real rehab around Thanksgiving 2008 (this year). After two weeks, she gets out and the daily headaches are gone. She gets the migraines every now and then, though, but she is not taking any narcotics (as far as I know). This whole time, though, she is still always tired and does not want to do anything but lay in bed and watch tv most of the time. Every now and then, she gets up and does a couple things around the house. She also takes our daughter to and from daycare (which we can’t really afford).
We have been having some major fights lately because my parents and siblings are tired of dealing with my wife. They don’t think she is ever going to be a good wife/mother because she does not really try that hard (or seem to). Most of the work generally falls on me. I donated a kidney to my younger brother about 6 months ago so they are concerned with my health for one and also that my daughter is not getting the proper care that she needs.
We didn’t go to Thanksgiving because a string of emails between my wife and my siblings started a small civil war in the family. We decided to go to Christmas for the day because we wanted our daughter to spend it with the other kids. It was not a good time. My wife and siblings basically ignored each other the whole time. My wife and I got into a major fight due to this on the way home (nice 3 hour drive).
So, I have been talking to a priest about this and the only thing he keeps telling me is basically that the Lord does not promise an easy life, so deal with it the best you can (in a roundabout way).
Divorce/Annulment have come up in fights with my wife. I know we are not supposed to do this. At what point is it too much though? My “former” family (parents/siblings) can’t stand to be around my wife anymore. My wife thinks that I’m a slave-driver if I ask her to get out of bed and help around the house more. I am working night and day and barely keeping us from going bankrupt. I don’t want to give up on our relationship but I am starting to think that the best thing for my daughter would be a separation. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I used to suffer from migraines, on a daily basis, they were so bad they blinded me…
I used to get the same thing from my family and my now ex-inlaws…

I was lazy, I didn’t want to do anything, I didn’t get out enough…etc…

It was really difficult living that way, I had been suffering from them since I started puberty… They stopped after my 3rd child was born and even though once in a while I will get one not bad enough to blind me but bad enough to kick me on my behind!!

Life was really difficult walking blind for me, and to try and do daily chores, and raise children. It over stressed me. AND it continued to deterriorate my matrimony that was all ready in the rocks…

I am divorced and my marriage was annuled but that was because we weren’t married through the church…so it was a different kind of annulment…

I know though if my then husband would have been more patient with me and tried to understand my condition better things might have been worth fighting for!!!