Well it looks like we’re in for another very long post. I really don’t know how you forum-types keep track of everything, but I’ll try my best to organize all my thoughts.
**To Feanaro’s Wife: **
“Does a person who is willing to compromise their core beliefs make the best choice in a spouse?”
Neither of us is willing to compromise our core beliefs. We’d never do that. Out core belief is the importance of family and the loving people that surround us. In these people, he finds God and I find a reason to live. We both find happiness.
“It sounds like both of you, for all of your scientific/fact/logic type of thinking, have lost the ability to think with your heads instead of just your hearts.”
I’m not sure what you mean by this. I really think we’re both giving this a lot of thought, and I’d love for you to elaborate further so I can better explain to you how this isn’t true.
“And also, your compromises are so unequal!”
I disagree. As an agnostic, I often run into the misconception that somehow my religion matters “less” than other religions, and so I’ll try to dispel this myth. Getting married in a Catholic Church is more to me than doing something that I “don’t really want to.” As an agnostic, I am a religion with a congregation of one. Catholicism has a congregation of millions. However, both have rules. I’d like people to try to understand that just because there’s only one of me in my religion, this doesn’t mean that it’s easier for me to break my rules. My rules aren’t any less important, and my religion isn’t any less legitimate. As a VERY EXTREME example, let’s say you asked me to kill someone. I wouldn’t do it (even if it was perfectly legal) because it violates my set of rules. As a Catholic, you wouldn’t do it either, because it violates YOUR rules. The point I’m trying to make here, is that both sets of rules are legitimate and equal. As such, my compromises and my boyfriend’s compromises are more equal than you think.
“For the good of eachother I think you both need to stop glossing over your huge differences and see them for what they are…very big obstacles that will only get bigger as time goes by.”
Please don’t think for one moment that I take the subject of marriage lightly. It is something that is very important to both of us. While I’ve never been married, I here that it’s not always gumdrops and sugar canes. Marriage is tough stuff. I get that. What is really unpleasant to me is that you’re so dismissive of our relationship. It seems to me that you’d much rather have him get a nice fair Catholic girl, and I go off and find myself a strapping young heathen. I’ve known my boyfriend for 12 years. We’ve been best friends for 5, and dating for 2. Yes, I know that’s not a lifetime, but this is much too big to just throw it all away over religion. I’d much rather see it as a way to unite us and bring us closer, rather than a huge ocean that divides us. Isn’t that what it’s all about anyways?
To: Liberanosamalo
“Many who marry a Catholic don’t mind having the wedding in the Catholic Church.”
Looks like I’m not most girls.
I mind having a wedding in a Catholic Church because it does not represent my faith.
You’re scenario about having a child was certainly interesting to read. I don’t have a child, and so while I’d love to say “I think it’s really sad you’re such a pessimist,” I really can’t, because I’ve never stood exactly where you stand. But I’ve stood close. I have a younger sister who’s 10 years younger than me. I became agnostic when I was 9, so I’ve been without faith for her entire life. Given that I’m quite a bit older than her, in a lot of ways I helped raise her, and I was a lot like a parent figure. She’s questioned me about my religious beliefs throughout her life, and I’ve never had difficulty explaining things to her. So yes, I’ve had her ask why I don’t attend church. She’s now 12 and she still firmly believes in God. She’s a strong Catholic and entirely well-adjusted. She’s also the reason I don’t think raising a child alongside an agnostic is quite the apocalypse you make it out to be.
“And no one has touched on a major cause of marital discord that you are completely ignoring. His parents. I don’t know anything about them.”
You’re right. You don’t know anything about them. But when I read what you wrote, it chilled me a little bit, because it seemed eerily accurate. My boyfriend’s parents are certainly very Catholic and what the future holds worried me. My boyfriend’s mother is already a (step) grandmother, but I’ve really never closely observed how she “parents” her grandchildren. When I spoke to my boyfriend about this, he introduced me to his mother’s favourite parenting phrase. As she says to her husband: “We raised our children the way we chose, now let them raise theirs.”
*“Eventually, he won’t be so Catholic.” “Maybe being with me she will return to the church.” *
I certainly hope he never loses his faith. It’s part of what makes him such an amazing person. Being “so Catholic” is what makes him calm and caring. As for Church, I attended with him briefly until we both realized it was a little bit silly since it was all a charade. Being agnostic is what makes me a strong person, and he most certainly admires that in me.
“Him being okay with you not going to Mass will get old every Sunday when he has to take the kids alone and sees other couples who are truly united in Christ attending and praying together. He may begin to feel he shortchanged himself by marrying you. That may lead to resentment.”
Now here’s where it all gets sticky. Since I don’t have a crystal ball, it’s pretty difficult for me to argue that this will never happen. All I can really say is that if you knew him, you’d know how far from the truth this scenario is.
“Your differences in religion are NOT superficial. Your adult rejection of everything you were ever taught about the Church founded by Jesus Christ is NOT superficial.”
I disagree, mainly because you’re being far more extreme than the reality of the situation. I have not rejected everything I was ever taught. In fact, I still retain most of my religious beliefs, they’ve just simply evolved and become repackaged over time. This is what makes our differences superficial. Inside, it’s all the same.
“Are you proud of the fact that he says he would forego marriage in a Catholic Church for you? Does it make you feel powerful that he would compromise his religious beliefs for YOU? That you can take God’s place in his priorities?”
Most certainly not! Your “now who do you think you are” tone is quite unnecessary. I said earlier that family is the most important part of our lives. God can be found in family. Let’s not be overly dramatic. No one has to take anyone’s place on the priority list.
To ThyKingdomCome:
“So imagine yourself in this scenario…”
Earlier in this post I mentioned that I have a younger sister. She’s asked me many of the same questions. The part of your post that has struck me most is when you said:
“you listen while he teaches her about the real presence in the Eucharist and he teaches her that
it’s not ok to believe otherwise” My boyfriend and I both believe is IS ok to believe otherwise. I think this is paramount to this discussion, because it eliminates the notion of one parent being pitted against the other. I assure you that I experience no discomfort in speaking honestly about my religious beliefs.
Just as a side note:
A couple of people mentioned artificial contraception. Where did this come into play?
I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say. You’re all very exciting to talk to.
I like my optimism, though…
