Marriage between two people with Down Syndrome

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I’ve just read an article on www.saci.org.br and I’d like to know your opinion about it.

Muriel Elisa Távora Niess Pokk is the mother of a girl with down syndrome called Rita de Cássia Niess Pokk. Rita de Cássia was dating a man called Ariel, also with down syndrome, and when they decided to get married, the girl’s mother started facing resistance in the church. The girl is Catholic and the man is Jewish.

Many priests were refusing to celebrate the wedding. One of the priests “kindly” offered himself to celebrate the wedding, but inside closed doors, with no witnesses.

So Muriel decided to talk with the people responsible for the Metropolitan Curia of São Paulo, since she thought they weren’t aware of what she thought was prejudice against her daughter and the fiancé.

She called the Curia on April 6, 2003, and talked to Monsignor Cosmo Maestri. He told her to wait for a week because he needed to talk to some people. She waited, but he didn’t call back with an answer.

On May 6, 2003, she called Mr. Maestri again. Once more, he told her to wait for a week because he didn’t have an answer yet. This continued on every call she made. After 4 months, she called demanding an answer.

So, Monsignor Maestri told her, “You’re doing all of this because your a fustrated mother who wants to have your unfullfilled dreams come true through your daughter, because she doesn’t even know what’s happening herself”.

Muriel then told him this wasn’t true, because she had already married in the church and that her daughter’s dream was to get married on their religion, because the fiancé was Jewish.

Mr. Maestri, without even knowing the couple, went on to say, “We don’t marry retards, retards don’t get married. They don’t know what they are doing.”

She then asked him where in the Bible this was written, but he didn’t answer. She says this isn’t written anywhere in the Bible because, before God, we are all equal.

Muriel got very upset and told Mr. Maestri she was going to get an evangelical minister to get her daughter married since God is only one. She also said she would get a reporter to make a report about the wedding and, before the ceremony, she would take the microphone and say, “From now on, my family and I are no longer Catholice, since Monsignor Cosmo Maestri said the Catholic Church doesn’t perform marriages between retards.”

And he hung up on him. The telephone rang and it was Mr. Maestri on the other side. First he verbally attacked her and then asked her to get in touch with Father Boim at the Church of Our Lady of Hope in the Moema neighborhood.

Muriel was hurt by the attacks but the was happy because she thought everything was solved.

She called the church and said, “Father, the Monsignor told me to talk to you to arrange the marriage. Is everything okay? When can I go there.”

He said, “There’s nothing okay. First, I need to see what kind of people you are.”

They went there and, finally, everything was arranged.

The marriage wasn’t celebrated in a church because it was an ecumenical marriage.

According to Muriel, the rabbi said many beautiful things and performed a very beautiful weding, but the Catholic priest only read a poem by Carlos Drummond de Andrade and a small part of a Psalm. He didn’t even bless the couple.

According to another website, Rita de Cássia and Ariel, are both 29 years old now.

Here’s a picture of Rita de Cássia (left), along with Lú Alckmin, wife of former governor of São Paulo, Geraldo Alckmin.

img242.imageshack.us/img242/4773/70404854.jpg
 
Did Rita choose to be married in an ecumentical marriage, or did her mother make that choice herself? Because if it’s the latter, than she would have proven the Monsignor right.
 
A young man who was a neighbor of my Grandmother’s, years ago, was married in the church. He was in a home for disabled adults where he met his bride to be…he was retarded but could perform simple jobs in a work place…His mother was an amazing woman and raised him in a way that was considered revolutionary for the time

This was over 50 years ago…There was never any problems with the church marrying them as far as I ever knew

Perhaps there are extenuating circumstances we are not aware of in this case…You can’t always trust the press to tell the entire truth
 
This supposedly took place in 2003. I think it is just another “bash” the Catholics.
 
Also, since it was in Brazil (where they speak Portuguese) I don’t think the term “retard” would have been used. 🤷
 
Did Rita choose to be married in an ecumentical marriage, or did her mother make that choice herself? Because if it’s the latter, than she would have proven the Monsignor right.
I can’t answer that question for sure, but if Rita was dating a Jew, it would be natural for her to have an ecumenical marriage. He guy shouldn’t be forced to convert into Catholicism to marry her (and she shouldn’t be forced to become Jewish). I don’t see any difference if the choice was made by the couple or if their families were involved in it. I believe the Monsignor had no right to refer to the couple as “retards” (which, in my opinion, is offensive, regardless of the fact if the couple have Down syndrome or not) and to refuse the marriage to them. For me, this just proves the prejudice of a man, who claims to be a representative of Jesus Christ on Earth, against people with mental disabilities. Rita and Ariel didn’t choose to be born with that disability. If the couple was black, would the Monsignor call them the N word and refuse the marriage to them?

And there’s no way to know at this point if the decision to have an ecumenical marriage was taken before or after the arguments between the girls mother and the Monsignor. Maybe if was after, because of the unwillingness of the Catholic priests. Even during the ceremony the Catholic priest didn’t seem to care for the couple, since he just read two small texts and didn’t even bless the them. It seems he just wanted to get the wedding done as quick as possible just to get out of there. At least, that’s my conclusion after reading the mother’s article.
 
You don’t know that he did refer to them as retards…The paper said he did, that doesn’t mean for a second it’s true
 
No one knows that it was the mother who chose the ecumenical marriage and if he Monsignor was really right about her either, as Eucharisted mentioned in his message. So this is that kind of thing, “he says, she says”. Only the people directly involved in the case know what really happened.
 
Gentlemen,
Only today (18/04/2009) I found his comments on google, about the marriage of my daughter. For this reason I am entering this forum to confirm the veracity of the text written by me. I am Brazilian and I apologize for my bad English.
All information that I put on my site (www.grandesencontros.com.br) and also placed on the site www.saci.org.br are extremely faithful to the reality that I lived.
Confirm that the Cosmo Mgr of metropolitan curia of the State of São Paulo, had refused to authorize the marriage of my daughter Rita de Cássia, carrier of Down Syndrome and her boyfriend Ariel Goldemberg, also holder of Down’s syndrome. The reason he was informed that: “delay not married” - these were his exact words. I asked him to show me where the Bible was written this sentence. Only the priest was allowed to marry after I said it would announce the fact to all media.
The priest was to marry, but only read a poem by Carlos Drummond de Andrade.
The marriage was ecumenical decision by the two families, including and especially the view of the couple.
If you need more information can write me via e-mail muriel.niess @ yahoo.com.br, putting the matter: marriage of Rita and Ariel.
Visit my site www.grandesencontros.com.br, which tells the story of my life and my struggle for the disabled.

Hugs, Muriel

Hugs, Muriel
  • Muriel is a lecturer on Down Syndrome.
  • In 1994 - has created religion in the Roman Catholic catechism course, (course on religion) for people with intellectual disabilities, thus enabling the same could make the first communion.
  • In February 2000 - has created the 1st chat channel for the disabled. For the novelty of it, published the fact, several newspapers including: 1) People’s Daily, 14/03/2000 (notebook computers, pp. 1 and 3) 2) O Globo, Rio de Janeiro (notebook computing, pg. 7) It still in the minutes of the Legislative Assembly of the State of São Paulo “act of praise.”
  • In February 2000 - The Site Built Great Encounters grandesencontros.com.br. First site in the world of meetings for people with disabilities.
  • 2005 - Participated in group Movitae - study of the cell body. Approved 04 March 2005, House, Brasilia.
  • 2006 - May 10 - gave the trophy: “Women of Success 2006,” City of SP.
 
Thank you for clarifying this matter for us.

I would like to say that Catholic prelates can have their human problems just like everyone else, but I do think that they should be more aware of them and do something about them.

My great-grandmother left the Church because she was told that she could not marry outside the Church (which was not true). I see that priests and bishops, etc., being mistaken can cause a lot of problems, not to mention the loss of souls. It is very sad.
carrier of Down Syndrome and her boyfriend Ariel Goldemberg, also holder of Down’s syndrome.
I just wanted to clarify that in English when we say someone is a “carrier” of a physical problem, it implies that the problem can be passed on to the next generation, so I wanted to clarify that Down’s syndrome is not genetic in that it is passed along; it involves a sort of mechanical problem with the genes of the individual.

I hope that your daughter and her husband are doing well!
 
Gentlemen,
Only today (18/04/2009) I found his comments on google, about the marriage of my daughter. For this reason I am entering this forum to confirm the veracity of the text written by me. I am Brazilian and I apologize for my bad English.
All information that I put on my site (www.grandesencontros.com.br) and also placed on the site www.saci.org.br are extremely faithful to the reality that I lived.
Confirm that the Cosmo Mgr of metropolitan curia of the State of São Paulo, had refused to authorize the marriage of my daughter Rita de Cássia, carrier of Down Syndrome and her boyfriend Ariel Goldemberg, also holder of Down’s syndrome. The reason he was informed that: “delay not married” - these were his exact words. I asked him to show me where the Bible was written this sentence. Only the priest was allowed to marry after I said it would announce the fact to all media.
The priest was to marry, but only read a poem by Carlos Drummond de Andrade.
The marriage was ecumenical decision by the two families, including and especially the view of the couple.
If you need more information can write me via e-mail muriel.niess @ yahoo.com.br, putting the matter: marriage of Rita and Ariel.
Visit my site www.grandesencontros.com.br, which tells the story of my life and my struggle for the disabled.

Hugs, Muriel
Thank you for joining us here and explaining your story. I am sorry that when your daughter and her boyfriend went to the Church with a desire for marriage, they only met an unChristian rejection. This is a disappointment for us, too.

Many prayers to them, that they may be blessed!

Peace,
+AMDG+
 
First, I will say that I have a daughter with Down Syndrome. I hope that one day she will meet someone and marry as well. I would fight, just as this courageous woman did, to see her married in my beloved Church. Thank you Muriel Elisa Távora Niess Pokk for your courage and tenacity in representing the interests of your daughter! All parents of special needs children need to be strong advocates for their children. No one else is going to be if we are not!
 
Hello Muriel
I am so sorry you and your daughter have been treated so unfairly.I am full time carer for my Learning Disabled sister(45yrs) similar to Downs Syndrome.I pray you come back to the one true church Roman Catholic Church.These clergy have let you and the Catholic church down very BADLY.They have disregarded the way we should live as catholics with love and tolerance.They are human and have committed human errors.I know this is no conselation to you but they were and are wrong and thats it and all about it.I hope a priest contacts you from this site to re-assure you of Gods love for your daughter and of her marriage.I fully support my sister who is dating a similsrly disabled man they want to marry also but I support them no matter what more importantly so doeas our priest.My love to you and your beautiful daughter my prayers are with you God Bless He didnt abandon you humans did!!!
 
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