Marriage Confusion

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MariaTS said:
The fact that I am treated differently is injustice. I am not subject to the same marital laws, since I am not, legally, allowed to marry a man or a woman.
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Hogwash.

If you are biologically male; you have all the rights of a biological male. You have the same choice of marraige partners as I do as a biological male (that is to say; women); you are not restricted by the church; but by your own confusion. This is not “treating” you differently; in the same way as an ordained man chooses to restrict himself; you choose to restrict yourself from marrying.

You cannot marry a man; because you are one; this is no different for me; I cannot marry a man; because I am one.

What is the injustice - specifically?
 
JohnDamian said:
Hogwash.

If you are biologically male; you have all the rights of a biological male. You have the same choice of marraige partners as I do as a biological male (that is to say; women); you are not restricted by the church; but by your own confusion. This is not “treating” you differently; in the same way as an ordained man chooses to restrict himself; you choose to restrict yourself from marrying.

You cannot marry a man; because you are one; this is no different for me; I cannot marry a man; because I am one.

What is the injustice - specifically?
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I am not a biological male, I am a biological female. My genitals and previous appearance have almost nothing to do with my biology. Also transsexuals are not allowed to marry a man or a woman legally, what part of that don’t you get? Could you tell me where I said I wanted to marry a man and only a man? I never recall saying that.
 
MariaTS said:
I am not a biological male, I am a biological female. My genitals and previous appearance have almost nothing to do with my biology. Also transsexuals are not allowed to marry a man or a woman legally, what part of that don’t you get? Could you tell me where I said I wanted to marry a man and only a man? I never recall saying that.
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I must be missing something. I know where I live; and in the Church; that someone with XY Chromosones; and has male genitals can marry women.

What gender you “identify with” is irrelevant. If I identifies with an animal it would not make marrying an animal a licit and sensible thing. Likewise; if you are physically male; you should have all the civil rights of other males.

What right, specifically; are you being denied? and by whom - The Church or a Civil authority?
 
JohnDamian said:
I must be missing something. I know where I live; and in the Church; that someone with XY Chromosones; and has male genitals can marry women.

What gender you “identify with” is irrelevant. If I identifies with an animal it would not make marrying an animal a licit and sensible thing. Likewise; if you are physically male; you should have all the civil rights of other males.

What right, specifically; are you being denied? and by whom - The Church or a Civil authority?
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Well where I live, since I live as my true gender, I am not allowed to marry a man or a woman.

Please don’t trivialize a medical condition that I have by delving into the absurd.

I told you, over and over again, that I am being denied the right to marry. Shall I repeat it a fourth time to you? I am being denied the right to marry by the Church and Civil authority, if that wasn’t already clear enough for you.
 
I am being denied the right to marry by the Church and Civil authority, if that wasn’t already clear enough for you.
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I can’t speak civilly; for that you should speak to your civil representative.

I can however say that since you have XY Chromozones; and have male genetalia the only obstacle in the way of you marrying a woman in the Church is your self-ascribed “identity”. You have the same rights to marry in the Church as I do.
 
JohnDamian said:
I can’t speak civilly; for that you should speak to your civil representative.

I can however say that since you have XY Chromozones; and have male genetalia the only obstacle in the way of you marrying a woman in the Church is your self-ascribed “identity”. You have the same rights to marry in the Church as I do.
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First of all, I did not choose to be Transsexual. Until you understand that, you will never understand what I am speaking about.

Second of all, if you want to have a logical and educated debate with an individual, please learn proper grammar and spelling.
 
Second of all, if you want to have a logical and educated debate with an individual, please learn proper grammar and spelling.
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Ok - I was trying to keep it casual but it seems that you would prefer a formal discussion.

The Sacrament of marraige is open to men and women who are ex opere operantis disposed for efficacy. For the purposes of the Sacrament the “Gender Identity” is an accidental predicate per se; as the function and teleology of a marraige is procreation, unity and love; towit per se the “identity” is a merely accidental quality. Even if predicated in quale by the quiddity of the thing per se it would not be an obstacle of the procreative and unitative functions essential for the constitution of a marraige; that is to say that even if so predicated the prior constituant or object-formation of the individuals intellection is not a per se determinant of their volition or nolition in operating the function of marraige; therein there is no necessary contrarity entailed in the marraige of a physiologically male person with a physiologically female individual despite predicates that are not really identical; merely formally accidental; such as “identity”.

That is to say; there is nothing stopping you marrying a woman in the Church. The notion that you have a particular “identity” whilst definable as a condition is in no way prohibitative of your rights as a physiological male within the Church; that is to say your “Gender Identity” is as irrelevant as your “Political Identity” per se; so long as no contrarity is entailed; formally or really.

To-wit; it is also improper in a “logical and educated debate” to commit pettifogging fallacies or pedantry. Ergo; as my bad spelling is merely an accidental predicate to my argument it is entirely the point that it’s improper manifestation does not impart a contrarity or fallacy within my argument. If you want to have a “logical and educated debate” don’t commit logical fallacies; or presume a person such as myself is bad at predicate logic just because I cannot spell.

👍
 
MariaTS said:
The fact that I am treated differently is injustice. I am not subject to the same marital laws, since I am not, legally, allowed to marry a man or a woman.
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You are not treated differently.
The rule is the same for you as it is for everyone else.

The injustice that I see here is an inability to accept where these rules lead.
 
MariaTS said:
It doesn’t matter what you think, I know what God thinks.
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Then why bother asking for (name removed by moderator)ut from others on this forum? It is evident that you see yourself as your own Magisterium.
 
FidesSpesCarita said:
How are genes not a good detector of biological sex? The only wishy washy combination I know of is XXY…

Genes are, in a sense, the instruction booklet given by God for how our bodies are intended to be built. If genetically you are female, but hormonal issues caused you to grow male, isnt that a diversion from God’s instructions? Knowing that you are genetically male would make me come down on (what I think is) not your side in this.

But vz71 has a point, people are not mandated to marry, copulate, or have a family. Paul says that the higher road is celibacy, with marriage being a consolation to those who cannot control their concupiscence.

-]And, ftr, I never said that you were male, only that /-]you are whatever God made you. Feelings are absolutely irrelevant in this. If I FEEL that my chair is really a great white shark, that does not make it so. Since your genes say that you are intended to be -]fe/-]male, I think that satisfies the “whatever God made you”, although I cannot claim to begin to understand what you have gone through.
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My bad, I read XX, not XY… Disregard the above and second JohnDamian’s Tirade… Sorry, but the dude is right, and apparently good at this…
 
MariaTS said:
…Second of all, if you want to have a logical and educated debate with an individual, please learn proper grammar and spelling.
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I though you reserved that kind of talk for me!

One proof that male/females marry and others don’t is that male/female couples are found everywhere regardless of civil law, church law, criminal law, …etc. The fact others insist on government involvement shows it is not a personal issue to them. The government cannot be involved in a personal issue.
 
JohnDamian said:
Hogwash.

If you are biologically male; you have all the rights of a biological male. You have the same choice of marraige partners as I do as a biological male (that is to say; women); you are not restricted by the church; but by your own confusion. This is not “treating” you differently; in the same way as an ordained man chooses to restrict himself; you choose to restrict yourself from marrying.

You cannot marry a man; because you are one; this is no different for me; I cannot marry a man; because I am one.

What is the injustice - specifically?
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Some places ( like UK) had a situation with one sex present with a birth certificate that indicates the opposite sex. They were then unable to obtain a marriage license until the person present matched the birth certificate. It was an unintended loop hole.
 
EricFilmer said:
Then why bother asking for (name removed by moderator)ut from others on this forum? It is evident that you see yourself as your own Magisterium.
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I was simply asking why I was not allowed to marry, I didn’t ask whether I was male or female since I already know that answer.
 
MariaTS said:
I was simply asking why I was not allowed to marry, I didn’t ask whether I was male or female since I already know that answer.
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If you are a man, you’re allowed to marry a woman. Simple as that.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
I though you reserved that kind of talk for me!

One proof that male/females marry and others don’t is that male/female couples are found everywhere regardless of civil law, church law, criminal law, …etc. The fact others insist on government involvement shows it is not a personal issue to them. The government cannot be involved in a personal issue.
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Male/male and female/female couples are also found everywhere, your point?
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
Just because you can find them everywhere doesn’t make it right or desirable…
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Just because you can find bigots everywhere does not make bigotry right or desirable. I find homosexuals much more desirable than bigots.
 
MariaTS said:
Transwomen aren’t allowed to marry anyone, not legally where I live.
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At the point of sounding crass, shouldn’t people with gender identity issues refrain from marrying?

Wouldn’t this be an obvious impediment to the sacrament of marriage?
 
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