Marriage Confusion

[wabrams]

Currently, I am feminine in appearance. When I was younger, I was androgynous in appearance.

There are more than just the factors that you have listed that make a person male or female.

I’m not transgendered (calling someone a transgender is derogatory even if they are transgendered, so is calling a group of people transgenders). I am transsexual, transsexual is not the same as transgendered. There is no medical description for a transsexual individual, currently, because the science of transsexualism is relatively new but they do know that it is biological.

Sounds like you have a hormone inbalance. Have you thought about seeing an endocronologist?

 

[vz71]

I have a complete understanding of myself and I know what marriage is.

It is irresponsible for people like you to tell people whom they have a right to marry and whom they do not have a right to marry and whether they may marry or not.

I have not said anything concerning whom you may or may not marry.

You asked a question, and I provided a few very direct answers.

As to the complete understanding of marriage, I have considerable doubts.
One has to at the very least have an understanding of self before they can give themselves completely to another in marriage.
This thread demonstrated that such understanding is not there.

A perfect example of said confusion is here:

There is no scientific “definition” of what it is to be a girl because each girl is defined differently, every girl is different.

 

[faithfully]

I know that I am a woman based on what God says and based on what Biology says.

No ones hormones are inline with man or woman because men and women both have testosterone and estrogen. But, if you are asking if I have more testosterone or estrogen in my body, currently I have more testosterone in my body. When I was born, I had more estrogen in my body.

I don’t produce either sperm or eggs, I am infertile.

Currently, I am feminine in appearance. When I was younger, I was androgynous in appearance.

There are more than just the factors that you have listed that make a person male or female.

I’m not transgendered (calling someone a transgender is derogatory even if they are transgendered, so is calling a group of people transgenders). I am transsexual, transsexual is not the same as transgendered. There is no medical description for a transsexual individual, currently, because the science of transsexualism is relatively new but they do know that it is biological.

Sorry, Didn’t mean to be derogatory. I have zero expertise/knowledge in your arena. As I said, I am trying to understand you as a person.

Sounds like you’ve had some medical intervention. That could be the only way you know you’re infertile. I assume you’ve had ejaculate tested for this. As it’s insanely hard to determine a females degree of fertility…

Well, you say there are more factors that determine male vs. female… but you don’t list them. You say that God says your a woman. How did he tell you that? You say biology says your a woman. Again, I can only assume that a doctor with a PHd has informed you of your biological nature based on tests and such. I guess you’re not interested in actually educating anyone about yourself. Which is fine. It’s your private biz.

So, I personally think you should go speak with your priest. If being catholic matters to you, you need to talk with someone who is strongly versed, and who knows you and understands your situation. They should be able to guide you in the best way to honor God.

I know I’m not hear to judge… Not my place. And I certainly don’t understand your situation enough to even have a clue as to which direction to point you in…So best wishes!

 

[JohnDamian]

There is no scientific “definition” of what it is to be a girl because each girl is defined differently, every girl is different.

You are incorrect.

The totality “female” is defined by essential Characteristics; such as being born with female sexual organs; having female chromosones; and so on.

It is true that the totality “female” has many accidental Characteristics; such as having black or blonde hair; being tall or short and so on.

However; all females have female chromosones; and all females are born with female organs. You are correct when you say “every girl is different”; however they can only differ in thing’s that are not CONTRARY to what it is to be a girl. So Girl A can have black hair; and Girl B can have Blonde hair; both Girls are still Girls. However; if Person C lacks the essential characteristic of female chromosones; then person C is not a Girl.

It is irresponsible for people like you to tell people whom they have a right to marry and whom they do not have a right to marry and whether they may marry or not.

We were told in James 5.20 to turn the sinner from their path. We are obligated to help and guide people towards the path of truth.

I know that I am a woman based on what God says and based on what Biology says.

What “biology” are you using; could you provide a referance to a certified medical association that claims people born with male genetalia are women.

Secondly; we are not obligated to believe in private revelations.

First of all, I am not male.

What are your definitions on “male” and “female”. Is it purely how the individual feels? Could I “become” a female just by wanting to be one; or for that matter can I become an animal just by wanting one - for tax purposes?

Second of all, genital realignment surgery is not mutilation or disfiguration.

Cutting parts of a body off and replacing them with other parts from other people is mutilation when it is done without necessity. That is to say; if I needed a kidney transplant it would not be mutliation; but if I was haphazardly attaching kidneys to myself then I would be mutilating myself.

Third of all, God created me to be female.

How did you come to this knowlege?

 

[PaulinVA]

First of all, I am not male.

If you were an athlete, would the Olympic committee allow you to complete as a woman? No. As a man? Yes.

Second of all, genital realignment surgery is not mutilation or disfiguration.

Any “procedure” that, if done without consent, would be considered mutilation, is still mutilation if done with consent. Cutting off your boy parts is indeed mutilation.

Third of all, God created me to be female.

Only he gave you a male body? Hmmm. As I said in a previous post, this is a terrible situation, and not one that you caused. Your mind is conflicted with the physical evidence of your being male and your feelings of being female. I believe that you are called to not marry anyone.

 

[Dale_M]

Cutting off your boy parts is indeed mutilation.

Hmm… not if it is done for therapeutic reasons.

 

[Dale_M]

The totality “female” is defined by essential Characteristics; such as being born with female sexual organs; having female chromosones; and so on.

Well, no, that isn’t true. I’m not sure what you mean by “female chromosomes”, but combinations of X &Y or (even null) chromosomes come in many varieties. And girls may be born with or without female organs. Or even a combination of male and female organs.

Even the complexity of genetics, I don’t think its too far of a stretch to consider the possibility of transsexualism: a sexual identity at odds with biological apparatus. After all, genes aren’t always active or inactive. Environmental factors may trigger expression of some genes or may suppress expression of some genes. What happens in utero can have a profound effect on development. Humans vary much more than you might think.

 

[MariaTS]

If you were an athlete, would the Olympic committee allow you to complete as a woman? No. As a man? Yes.

Any “procedure” that, if done without consent, would be considered mutilation, is still mutilation if done with consent. Cutting off your boy parts is indeed mutilation.

Only he gave you a male body? Hmmm. As I said in a previous post, this is a terrible situation, and not one that you caused. Your mind is conflicted with the physical evidence of your being male and your feelings of being female. I believe that you are called to not marry anyone.

Actually you’re wrong, the would allow me to compete as a woman.

Genital realignment surgery has nothing to do with cutting off genitals, that is a fallacy by many people who do not understand it. Genital realignment surgery has to do with rebuilding the genitals.

It doesn’t matter what body I was born with, there are mistakes in nature that cause people to be born differently than they were intended. Again, my mind is not conflicted because I do not have a mental illness. I know that I am female and I know that marriage is about love. If I truly love someone on a romantic level and they feel the same way about me, then I should marry them.

 

[PaulinVA]

Originally Posted by PaulinVA forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
* Cutting off your boy parts is indeed mutilation.

Hmm… not if it is done for therapeutic reasons.

Therapeutic being defined as removing a diseased organ, you are right. But, of course, that’s not what you mean, is it?

Johns Hopkins stopped doing this kind of surgery (removing male genitals because the patient feels like a woman) because that “therapy” doesn’t solve any of the physiological problems the patients present with.

This is indeed a terrible situation to be in.

 

[Dale_M]

Johns Hopkins stopped doing this kind of surgery (removing male genitals because the patient feels like a woman) because that “therapy” doesn’t solve any of the physiological problems the patients present with.

Yes, this was due to the influence of Paul McHugh, a highly accomplished psychiatrist, who had experience with transsexual counseling in the early 1970s. He formed his opinions back then, but they were complicated by the changing roles of women and the emerging disentanglement of homosexuality and transsexualism. Sadly he didn’t keep pace with advances in understanding of transsexualism - but that doesn’t keep him from speaking on the subject. He is a sad example of one of those persons with the attitude , at least when it comes to the topic of transsexualism, of “My mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts.” His thinking is mired in the past, and is out of the mainstream.

The ending of the Johns Hopkins program, as with other university based programs, is not a bad thing. Such programs treat the patient as a curiosity, an object of study. The understanding of transsexualism has advanced beyond that. Most transsexuals, at least in the US, receive counseling though independent psychologists now and arrange for surgery independent of university hospitals.

What “biology” are you using; could you provide a referance to a certified medical association that claims people born with male genetalia are women.

John, the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association, as well as similar bodies in other countries, recognize the existence of transsexualism. Just Google the names of the organization and the word “transsexual.”

BTW, there is an internationally recognized organization which specializes in this disorder. It is called the The World Professional Association For Transgender Health, and they set the standards of care used in the treatment of transsexualism.

Therapeutic being defined as removing a diseased organ, you are right. But, of course, that’s not what you mean, is it?

I think a growth, even which is directed by organic processes in the body, can be removed if it interferes with the health of an individual. We are more than our genitals.

 

[adstrinity]

MariaTS, you have a penis (and testes), but, you do not produce sperm? Is that because of hormones you are taking?

If it is, stop that, if not, then you are sterile. I believe this only furthers the understanding that you are called to a life of celebacy.

 

[PAboy57]

If you are talking about a journey back to God, there is no journey back to God for me because I never left God, I never turned my back on God.

Outstanding and please forgive me for misunderstaning. Since that is the case seeking excellent, spiritual and personal advice is even more relevant.

I don’t recall any “religious types” responding on this thread but I might have missed it. You situation seems quite complicated and I again encourage you to seek face-to-face counsel.

I believe there are resources available that are very willing to work with you and the fee is probably $0.

Maria, is there a particular answer you looking for on this public forum?

Are you simply curious as to general Catholic feedback?

Are you willing and able to seek personal spiritual advice?

Do you lack intimate family assistance on this matter?

Take care.

 

[Apollos]

Since Same-Sex Marriage is so “horrible”, according to some Catholics, who do I marry? I can’t marry a man because I have boy parts. I can’t marry a woman because I live as my true self which is a woman. Why am I not allowed to marry anyone? Why can’t I be with the one I love until death do us part? Where is this condemned, where is this in the bible? Don’t quote any version of the bible written after 1800 because the mistranslations are rampant in the modern era. I know this, I have studied biblical history. Do you even know the real story of Sodom and Gomorrah or are you too wrapped up in the lies and propaganda which brainwashed the minds of millions?

You think you’re discriminated against! When I went to city hall to marry my horse, I was turned away because Anastasia is only 4 years old.

Now we are forced to live in sin, rejected by both Church and State.