Marriage Dilemma – Catholic and LDS

[paulp1002]

The short back story… My wife and I have been married for almost two years. I was raised in a Catholic household and she was raised LDS. Although I was raised in a Catholic household; my brother and I only went to church for weddings, funerals, and holidays, therefore I never made my Communion. Her family went to church every Sunday.

My wife and I met at work, and I knew she was Mormon. I started going to church with her and eventually took the missionary lessons and was “emerged in water.” After several months we agreed to get married with her hopes of being sealed in the temple after my one year. During my first couple months of marriage, and constantly being surrounded by LDS members, I started to realize that the church was based on false doctrine, a false prophet and too many gaps in truth. I eventually told my wife that I felt that this whole experience brought me closer to my Catholic faith. At first she accepted this change. I later found out from my Godfather that I could not make my Communion until we were married in the Catholic Church. She originally agreed. She met with her Bishop who told her that if I couldn’t give her a temple marriage we shouldn’t be married. Her mother said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.” Of course this had a negative impact on our marriage and she has left and returned several times. We eventually worked out a “solution” and are back together. If you would like more details regarding our marriage and roadblocks) please send me a message.) I have met with my local parish and the Father informed me that the Catholic Church does not recongize the LDS baptism and I do not have to send in a letter of resignation.

My current problem… My wife recently told me that she would like to make or take her endowments. She met with her bishop and one of his concerns is that since I was no longer a practicing Mormon and have returned to my true faith, that it could cause problems within our marriage. I told her that I would meet with him to let him know that I support her and her choices regarding religion. However during my meeting with the Bishop, he told me that he had informed her that he feels that it wouldn’t be right for a woman who is seeking her endowments to marry me in the Catholic Church, no matter what benefits it has for me. This changes a lot. He also told me that in order for her to get her endowments, that I would have to agree and sign my permission no matter if I’m an LDS member or not. I told him that I would support her with her beliefs as long as she supported me in my beliefs. Honestly I find that what both the bishops and her mother said, goes against the LDS teachings of their 11th Article of Faith.

.let them worship how, where, or what they may

This is where I would like some help from the CAF members. I have been struggling with this decision. My wife “should” know how important it is for her to marry me in the Catholic Church, not only to legitimize our marriage in the eyes of our Lord, but also so that I can finally make my Communion. With me having to give my permission for her to have her endowment, puts the ball in my court. Should I give my permission, even though she will not give me what I need spiritually? Or should I play hard ball.

LDS members, I know what the importance of a temple sealing is to Mormons, but there is a huge difference between a Catholic and LDS marriage… She doesn’t have to change what and who she believes in, she can still be Mormon and married to me in the Catholic Church. On the other hand I would have to be Mormon in order to sealed to her. I can honestly say if I could be Catholic and sealed to her in her temple, I would.

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

 

[twopekinguys]

The short back story… My wife and I have been married for almost two years. I was raised in a Catholic household and she was raised LDS. Although I was raised in a Catholic household; my brother and I only went to church for weddings, funerals, and holidays, therefore I never made my Communion. Her family went to church every Sunday.

My wife and I met at work, and I knew she was Mormon. I started going to church with her and eventually took the missionary lessons and was “emerged in water.” After several months we agreed to get married with her hopes of being sealed in the temple after my one year. During my first couple months of marriage, and constantly being surrounded by LDS members, I started to realize that the church was based on false doctrine, a false prophet and too many gaps in truth. I eventually told my wife that I felt that this whole experience brought me closer to my Catholic faith. At first she accepted this change. I later found out from my Godfather that I could not make my Communion until we were married in the Catholic Church. She originally agreed. She met with her Bishop who told her that if I couldn’t give her a temple marriage we shouldn’t be married. Her mother said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.” Of course this had a negative impact on our marriage and she has left and returned several times. We eventually worked out a “solution” and are back together. If you would like more details regarding our marriage and roadblocks) please send me a message.) I have met with my local parish and the Father informed me that the Catholic Church does not recongize the LDS baptism and I do not have to send in a letter of resignation.

My current problem… My wife recently told me that she would like to make or take her endowments. She met with her bishop and one of his concerns is that since I was no longer a practicing Mormon and have returned to my true faith, that it could cause problems within our marriage. I told her that I would meet with him to let him know that I support her and her choices regarding religion. However during my meeting with the Bishop, he told me that he had informed her that he feels that it wouldn’t be right for a woman who is seeking her endowments to marry me in the Catholic Church, no matter what benefits it has for me. This changes a lot. He also told me that in order for her to get her endowments, that I would have to agree and sign my permission no matter if I’m an LDS member or not. I told him that I would support her with her beliefs as long as she supported me in my beliefs. Honestly I find that what both the bishops and her mother said, goes against the LDS teachings of their 11th Article of Faith.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

This is where I would like some help from the CAF members. I have been struggling with this decision. My wife “should” know how important it is for her to marry me in the Catholic Church, not only to legitimize our marriage in the eyes of our Lord, but also so that I can finally make my Communion. With me having to give my permission for her to have her endowment, puts the ball in my court. Should I give my permission, even though she will not give me what I need spiritually? Or should I play hard ball.

LDS members, I know what the importance of a temple sealing is to Mormons, but there is a huge difference between a Catholic and LDS marriage… She doesn’t have to change what and who she believes in, she can still be Mormon and married to me in the Catholic Church. On the other hand I would have to be Mormon in order to sealed to her. I can honestly say if I could be Catholic and sealed to her in her temple, I would.

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

You are not in an easy position, that is for sure.

As a baptized Catholic, you are required to be married within the Catholic Church. Even if you were married in a civil setting, then your marriage has to be convalidated by a member of the Catholic clergy, unless you receive a dispensation from your Bishop.

Also, as a Catholic, you are obligated to raise your child(ren) in the Catholic faith.

While the Catholic church does not recognize an lds baptism, the lds do. That means you are on their roles as a member. It would be wise for you to have your name removed from their roles, if only to make it clear to the lds that you are no longer lds.

As for your mother in law, I would (as charitably as possible) tell her to butt out. This is between you and your wife.

I understand her bishop pushing for a temple wedding since that is something all married mormons are supposed to strive for, but, for him to say you shouldn’t be married is out and out wrong, and if his comments are what caused her to leave and return multiple times, then his advice is not doing either one of you any good.

Bottom line is that you have to look out for, and take care of your own spiritual needs before you can consider the spiritual needs of others.

I am out of time, but will help any way I can once I return.

God bless.

 

[Marie5890]

You are in a challenging situation for sure.

My first thoughts are, what are your and your wife’s feelings?
If you both agree that having your marriage convalidated by a Catholic priest, then do so, so you can partake of the Eucharist.

Is her bishop absolutely denying her the opportunity of taking out her endowments if this happens? (Women often do get the shaft in the LDS church at times). Have her talk with the stake president about it if the answer is yes. You could talk to him as well.

Make sure that they all know that both you and she are trying to make a mixed marriage of religious beliefs work and are supportive of each other’s religious beliefs…

Im sorry that there are these stumbling blocks coming from her bishop, but I am not surprised…

Prayers.

 

[puzzleannie]

I have no advice other than that you need to be in constant communication with your Catholic pastor. I see no resolution that allows you to remain married unless one of you forsakes his faith completely as there is no way for you to honor the commitments of your respective faiths while you are yoked to a non-believer. As long as she clings, to her credit, to the demands of her faith she will not be allowed to remain married to you unless you reject your faith utterly. That means putting your immortal soul in peril, and it means disobeying Christ’s explicit command that nothing, wife, mother, father, or child, can come between you and Him.

you would be allowed to convalidate your marriage in the Catholic Church if you both could give evidence of valid consent, and if you return to the sacraments and received a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic, but as long as she adheres to the prescripts of her faith that cannot happen, as her faith will not allow it.

One of you will have to compromise to the extent of rejecting the most fundamental deeply held part of your identity, your faith.

we will be praying for you.

I don’t know this for a fact but suspect there are local Mormon bodies who are laxer or more accommodating or “pastoral” in applying the marriage laws, and she might find one that allowed her to remain married to a practicing Catholic, but it sounds as if she belongs to a very strict family who considers all the temple regulations important. it is equally unfair to expect her to abandon her deeply held religious convictions, as it would be for her to make those demands on you.

 

[tundramom]

You guys sound just like my husband and I.

He is a life-long Catholic. I was a life-long Mormon. We married and I had secret hopes that we would one day go to the temple.

Thankfully, God had other plans.

Five years later I became Catholic. We have now been married for almost 16 years and are involved in our Parish and our marriage is truly a sacramental one!

I’d like to hear more of your story, so if you could PM me I’d like it!!

Steph

 

[SteveVH]

What are you plans as far as raising children? You really are in a tight spot here and I will pray for you. It seems that you find yourself in conflict at every turn. I think puzzleannie put it very well. In most mixed marriages there is some common ground until children arrive. That is when the rubber hits the road as far as making choices. Unfortunately, many times no choice is made but to leave “church” out of their lives, which does no one any good. Catholicism and Mormonism couldn’t be further apart and so it would seem to me that the problem could be amplified somewhat.

As I said I will pray for you and your wife. Just don’t work it out at the cost of your soul.

God bless.

 

[zerinus]

The short back story… My wife and I have been married for almost two years. I was raised in a Catholic household and she was raised LDS. Although I was raised in a Catholic household; my brother and I only went to church for weddings, funerals, and holidays, therefore I never made my Communion. Her family went to church every Sunday.

My wife and I met at work, and I knew she was Mormon. I started going to church with her and eventually took the missionary lessons and was “emerged in water.” After several months we agreed to get married with her hopes of being sealed in the temple after my one year. During my first couple months of marriage, and constantly being surrounded by LDS members, I started to realize that the church was based on false doctrine, a false prophet and too many gaps in truth. I eventually told my wife that I felt that this whole experience brought me closer to my Catholic faith. At first she accepted this change. I later found out from my Godfather that I could not make my Communion until we were married in the Catholic Church. She originally agreed. She met with her Bishop who told her that if I couldn’t give her a temple marriage we shouldn’t be married. Her mother said “I don’t want Catholic grandbabies.” Of course this had a negative impact on our marriage and she has left and returned several times. We eventually worked out a “solution” and are back together. If you would like more details regarding our marriage and roadblocks) please send me a message.) I have met with my local parish and the Father informed me that the Catholic Church does not recongize the LDS baptism and I do not have to send in a letter of resignation.

My current problem… My wife recently told me that she would like to make or take her endowments. She met with her bishop and one of his concerns is that since I was no longer a practicing Mormon and have returned to my true faith, that it could cause problems within our marriage. I told her that I would meet with him to let him know that I support her and her choices regarding religion. However during my meeting with the Bishop, he told me that he had informed her that he feels that it wouldn’t be right for a woman who is seeking her endowments to marry me in the Catholic Church, no matter what benefits it has for me. This changes a lot. He also told me that in order for her to get her endowments, that I would have to agree and sign my permission no matter if I’m an LDS member or not. I told him that I would support her with her beliefs as long as she supported me in my beliefs. Honestly I find that what both the bishops and her mother said, goes against the LDS teachings of their 11th Article of Faith.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

This is where I would like some help from the CAF members. I have been struggling with this decision. My wife “should” know how important it is for her to marry me in the Catholic Church, not only to legitimize our marriage in the eyes of our Lord, but also so that I can finally make my Communion. With me having to give my permission for her to have her endowment, puts the ball in my court. Should I give my permission, even though she will not give me what I need spiritually? Or should I play hard ball.

LDS members, I know what the importance of a temple sealing is to Mormons, but there is a huge difference between a Catholic and LDS marriage… She doesn’t have to change what and who she believes in, she can still be Mormon and married to me in the Catholic Church. On the other hand I would have to be Mormon in order to sealed to her. I can honestly say if I could be Catholic and sealed to her in her temple, I would.

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

I am a Mormon, and cannot say that I am familiar with, or aware of any official Church policy answering your particular query; but based on my general knowledge of the LDS Church, and without being aware of the details of the case that might prejudice my opinion one way or another, it seems that the advice given by the Mormon bishop is not correct in this case (assuming you have accurately described it), or in accordance with Church policy. Since you are already married with a non-LDS marriage, I don’t see a problem with you two receiving a “Catholic” marriage. From an LDS point of view that is an irrelevance. If it is important to you, the LDS Church has nothing to say about that. My suggestion would be that your wife should seek the advice of her stake president, and you and your wife should see him together, and explain our situation, and see what advice he gives.

 

[zerinus]

I see no resolution that allows you to remain married unless one of you forsakes his faith completely as there is no way for you to honor the commitments of your respective faiths while you are yoked to a non-believer. As long as she clings, to her credit, to the demands of her faith she will not be allowed to remain married to you unless you reject your faith utterly.

That is false. The LDS Church takes no such position with regard to mixed marriages with Church members.

 

[paulp1002]

My first thoughts are, what are your and your wife’s feelings?
If you both agree that having your marriage convalidated by a Catholic priest, then do so, so you can partake of the Eucharist.

Is her bishop absolutely denying her the opportunity of taking out her endowments if this happens? (Women often do get the shaft in the LDS church at times). Have her talk with the stake president about it if the answer is yes. You could talk to him as well.

Well, to start I have no problems supporting my wife’s spiritual needs and when I first told her that I was always Catholic, she supported me in my spiritual needs. However it seems that after she spoke with her old bishop and mother, her feelings changed. I say “it seems” because she will deny it now. But at the time she told me that she prayed and the Lord told her that her marriage to me is what was important because of our love for each other. After she spoke with the bishop and her mother she told me that she must have mis-understood the answer to her prayer. I think that she must have recently thought about marrying me in the Catholic Church because she brought it up with her new bishop during her endowment interview. The bishop did not deny her endowment, but he stated that he would have to talk with the stake president to determine if now would be the best time for her to have her endowment. This is why I told her I would talk with him. So I could tell him that I support her. This was before I knew that he told her that she shouldn’t marry me in the Catholic Church, no matter what spiritual benefits it has for me.

You guys sound just like my husband and I.

He is a life-long Catholic. I was a life-long Mormon. We married and I had secret hopes that we would one day go to the temple.

Thankfully, God had other plans.

Five years later I became Catholic. We have now been married for almost 16 years and are involved in our Parish and our marriage is truly a sacramental one!

I’d like to hear more of your story, so if you could PM me I’d like it!!

Steph

I would love to share our story. I have hope that she will one day realize that her church is cursed (Galatians Chapter 1 verses 6-9.) I think that she will first need to open her heart and mind, in order to accept Gods true Church

 

[paulp1002]

What are you plans as far as raising children? You really are in a tight spot here and I will pray for you. It seems that you find yourself in conflict at every turn. I think puzzleannie put it very well. In most mixed marriages there is some common ground until children arrive. That is when the rubber hits the road as far as making choices.

Well we have hit that “roadblock” When she left me the last time we found out that we were expecting our first child. After several months apart, we tried counseling again. After several visits, she realized that through all our troubles, I only wanted one thing… for us to be together. No matter what religion we were, my love was unconditional. We have agreed that I will be Catholic and she will be Mormon. We also agreed that when the baby came, we each would “teach” our religions and when he is old enough to choose, he will choose the religion. I say “teach” instead of “raise” because after a conversation with one of my Fathers at my parish, he explained that in a inter-faith marriage we should teach our religion and let the child decide when he is old enough. If you raise a child in a religion you are forcing your religious beliefs. In October we welcome our baby boy Andres. After our child was about a month old she wanted to have her father bless him. I was strongly against this blessing because it would require his name to be registered with her ward and it went against what I thought was our understanding. Her understanding was that she would raise him Mormon, and that raising was the same as teaching, even though I had explained to her and our counselor my definition of “raise” and “teach.” This caused another problem in our marriage, she voiced that she was upset that I would take the baby to Church with me. Her sacrament started at 9 and my Mass started at 11 and she was upset that I would take him after her sacrament. She eventually said that it was extremely important to her that she take him to all 3 hours. I gave in and let her take him, as must as it hurts for me not to take him to Mass with me, I have a comfort knowing that he will know Gods true Church and when he is old enough he will choose the Catholic Church. The funny thing, is almost every Sunday he throws a fit in sacrament and she has to take him out into the lobby. It’s like he already knows. I try to avoid the religion conversation with her because of the fear that she will leave me again and this time take my son. She said that she wouldn’t do that, but she has broken that trust with me. I had recently met with my Father because I was having problems sleeping because I didn’t feel like a good father due to the fact I couldn’t have my son baptized. The Father provided comfort, informing me that Jesus is the only Judge and He will know if I have a true heart in wanting my son baptized, He would not deny my son’s salvation in his kingdom. I still struggle with wanting my son baptized and taking him with me to Church with me. I know that I will one day have to confront her with what is important to me.

On a side note, I am extremely against her taking him to primary when he reaches that age, and if we haven’t worked something out by then we will have to. I truly do not want to offend any LDS members, but I find it wrong on so many levels to teach false doctrine from a false prophet on such a young mind. It doesn’t give a child a chance to determine what is true and what is not true. If you constantly force falsehoods to a child every week, they will be conditioned to believe that those falsehoods are true. As I told my wife, if we were to constantly tell our son that the world is flat, he will be conditioned to believe that the world is flat. .

I am a Mormon, and cannot say that I am familiar with, or of any official Church policy answering your particular query; but based on my general knowledge of the LDS Church, and without being aware of the details of the case that might prejudice my opinion one way or another, it seems that the advice given by the Mormon bishop is not correct in this case (assuming you have accurately described it), or in accordance with Church policy. Since you are already married with a non-LDS marriage, I don’t see a problem with you two receiving a “Catholic” marriage. From an LDS point of view that is an irrelevance. If it is important to you, the LDS Church has nothing to say about that. My suggestion would be that your wife should seek the advice of her stake president, and you and your wife should see him together, and explain our situation, and see what advice he gives.

I have posted my original story before on this forum and on a LDS forum and I have heard what you have said before. However what I have experienced with her two different bishops, has contradicted your post and others. I will say with an honest mind and heart, her first bishop told me that he would not suggest that we divorce, but God’s plan was for her to have a temple marriage. So in other words, find a man who can give her a temple marriage. The new bishop told me that he told her that “he” feels that she should not marry me in the Catholic Church if she is seeking her endowment. I have found that many bishops don’t follow LDS church policies, they follow what they think is right.

 

[ParkerD]

Paulp1002,
You wrote:

He also told me that in order for her to get her endowments, that I would have to agree and sign my permission no matter if I’m an LDS member or not. I told him that I would support her with her beliefs as long as she supported me in my beliefs. Honestly I find that what both the bishops and her mother said, goes against the LDS teachings of their 11th Article of Faith.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

This is where I would like some help from the CAF members. I have been struggling with this decision. My wife “should” know how important it is for her to marry me in the Catholic Church, not only to legitimize our marriage in the eyes of our Lord, but also so that I can finally make my Communion. With me having to give my permission for her to have her endowment, puts the ball in my court. Should I give my permission, even though she will not give me what I need spiritually? Or should I play hard ball.

LDS members, I know what the importance of a temple sealing is to Mormons, but there is a huge difference between a Catholic and LDS marriage… She doesn’t have to change what and who she believes in, she can still be Mormon and married to me in the Catholic Church. On the other hand I would have to be Mormon in order to sealed to her. I can honestly say if I could be Catholic and sealed to her in her temple, I would.

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

It seems you have received good advice from the “Father” who told you that your son did not need to be baptized even though you have felt that strong desire for your son.

When an LDS bishop makes a decision about a married woman as to her endowment in a case such as yours, by policy he needs to have the acceptance of the husband if she is going to receive her endowment, and have it in writing, plus feel like the husband is being honest and that he won’t change his mind later since she will be making, really and truly, eternal covenants that are binding upon her.

As to a Catholic marriage ceremony, I would respond that when she agreed to marry you she did not agree to do so in a Catholic marriage ceremony. I have been told by a Catholic who presented themselves as a knowledgeable Catholic, that marriage is between the man and the woman in the Catholic church, and God is also involved in such a marriage. This would mean that the woman needs to have her “heart” in it if she is going to be married in a ceremony in the Catholic church. It should not be for “show”. It should be from the “heart.” If her heart was not going to be in it, then to go through with a ceremony would be to be in the very uncomfortable position of not having her heart with her words or with her actions in that ceremony, which means she would be acting against conscience (her own personal conscience, not anyone else’s.)

What that means as to the question of your Communion is that you already made a choice about marriage, already have a son through having made that choice, already have a wife who evidently loves you, so the position you are now in is one that has followed from choices you have already made. It would seem important and loving to let your wife live by the choices she has already made also with no choice against conscience, and by agreements and understandings you had when you made those first choices and agreed to them. This would not be going against the 11th article of faith. It means the situation you are in (admittedly a predicament and a frustration but perhaps needing to understand that the Holy Spirit can be with you without your having had Communion) has followed from choices you have already made, and the both of you would be following the 11th article of faith while at the same time acknowledging each others’ choices and each others’ conscience and going forward with your differences as best you can work them out.

May the Lord give you peace and I have no question that He will bless your marriage.

 

[twopekinguys]

Paulp1002,

As to a Catholic marriage ceremony, I would respond that when she agreed to marry you she did not agree to do so in a Catholic marriage ceremony. I have been told by a Catholic who presented themselves as a knowledgeable Catholic, that marriage is between the man and the woman in the Catholic church, and God is also involved in such a marriage. This would mean that the woman needs to have her “heart” in it if she is going to be married in a ceremony in the Catholic church. It should not be for “show”. It should be from the “heart.” If her heart was not going to be in it, then to go through with a ceremony would be to be in the very uncomfortable position of not having her heart with her words or with her actions in that ceremony, which means she would be acting against conscience (her own personal conscience, not anyone else’s.)

You could twist the knots out of a pretzel sometimes.
Had you read everything, you would see that

1. She did agree to a “Catholic wedding”, and ended up changing her mind. (plain and simple)
2. There are obvious signs of pressure on the wife, with the mother in law not wanting “Catholic grandbabies”, and the Bishop basically telling her to dump him because of no temple wedding.
3. She obviously didn’t take her initial vows seriously if she has left and come back more than once, so evidently her “heart” as you put it wasn’t exactly in it from the beginning now was it?
4. Yes, God is in a Catholic wedding, isn’t he in a mormon one?
5. You say he needs to live with the decisions he made. She should do the same thing, and live up to commitments she has made.

I find it odd that you and Z are somewhat at odds on this. Even Z said there didn’t appear to be justification for what the Bishop said.

There are more and more cases in courts these days regarding the faith teachings of separated/divorced children, and they have been vigorously enforced. Check out this story.

foxnews.com/us/2010/03/25/judge-rules-illinois-father-daughter-easter-mass/

As you will see, it was an interfaith marriage between a Catholic and a Jew, and the courts ruled in favor of the Jewish mother.

By the way, still waiting on your DNA references on the other thread.
What that means as to the question of your Communion is that you already made a choice about marriage, already have a son through having made that choice, already have a wife who evidently loves you, so the position you are now in is one that has followed from choices you have already made. It would seem important and loving to let your wife live by the choices she has already made also with no choice against conscience, and by agreements and understandings you had when you made those first choices and agreed to them. This would not be going against the 11th article of faith. It means the situation you are in (admittedly a predicament and a frustration but perhaps needing to understand that the Holy Spirit can be with you without your having had Communion) has followed from choices you have already made, and the both of you would be following the 11th article of faith while at the same time acknowledging each others’ choices and each others’ conscience and going forward with your differences as best you can work them out.

May the Lord give you peace and I have no question that He will bless your marriage.

 

[zerinus]

I have posted my original story before on this forum and on a LDS forum and I have heard what you have said before. However what I have experienced with her two different bishops, has contradicted your post and others. I will say with an honest mind and heart, her first bishop told me that he would not suggest that we divorce, but God’s plan was for her to have a temple marriage. So in other words, find a man who can give her a temple marriage. The new bishop told me that he told her that “he” feels that she should not marry me in the Catholic Church if she is seeking her endowment. I have found that many bishops don’t follow LDS church policies, they follow what they think is right.

Okay, I will give you my strictly “unofficial” advice—for what it is worth! If you and your wife are agreed to have a “Catholic” marriage, then go ahead and have one, and disregard any advice given by the bishop or anyone else. After you have had your marriage, then afterwards if your wife would like to take her endowment in a Mormon temple, and you give your consent, the bishop has no option but to give her one provided she is qualified in all other respects. She can simply make an appointment to see the bishop, and take your written consent with her, and ask the bishop to interview her for a temple recommend. The bishop will be obliged to conduct the interview. He can’t just turn her request down willy-nilly. And when she is interviewed, provided she answers all the questions correctly, then the bishop has no option but to sign her temple recommend. If he refuses he will be breaking the regulations of the Church and can be complained against to higher authorities.

The worthiness of a Church member to go to the temple is strictly defined by the temple recommend interview questions. The bishop cannot arbitrarily deviate from them. If he does he can be complained against, and the matter sorted out. The laws of the Church are not a “free-for-all” for the bishop to do as he pleases. That would be my advice, given the information you have provided. I have not read the more detailed account you are referring to.

P.S. Just to add a note, I am not aware of the obligations that might be imposed on your wife if she entered into a “Catholic marriage” with you. Would that place obligations on her that might prevent her from taking her Mormon temple endowments for example? If that were the case, then my suggestions might be different.

 

[ParkerD]

You could twist the knots out of a pretzel sometimes.
Had you read everything, you would see that

1. She did agree to a “Catholic wedding”, and ended up changing her mind. (plain and simple)

She also was already married to this man, and it was done without it having been a “Catholic wedding.” I was talking about the original decision to marry. She could change her mind about a subsequent “Catholic marriage” ceremony–she has that right, even if she had said she would do it when initially confronted with the dilemma. In other words, she did not make such a commitment before her original marriage to him.

1. There are obvious signs of pressure on the wife, with the mother in law not wanting “Catholic grandbabies”, and the Bishop basically telling her to dump him because of no temple wedding.

I disagree that the bishop was telling her to “dump him”. Bishops he has met with have expressed concerns about her desire to receive her endowment under the conditions expressed by the husband. This does not mean she has to “dump him”. It may mean she has to wait to receive her endowment, but again that is because she will be making eternally binding covenants with God and the bishop of course knows that. (Note that baptism was supposed to have been an eternally binding covenant also, so the track record is not all that good here.)

1. She obviously didn’t take her initial vows seriously if she has left and come back more than once, so evidently her “heart” as you put it wasn’t exactly in it from the beginning now was it?

Are you suggesting that she should leave for good? Why not give her a break that these are hard issues in her life and she is going through some difficult decision making?

1. Yes, God is in a Catholic wedding, isn’t he in a mormon one?

Of course. I would also say that He is in any marriage where the couple exchanges vows and has God as a part of their life.

1. You say he needs to live with the decisions he made. She should do the same thing, and live up to commitments she has made.

I was talking about the initial marriage commitment, not a decision she made when confronted with a need her husband had regarding his choice of religion and its requirements. He had made some pretty serious commitments before she chose to marry him. They were not petty.

I find it odd that you and Z are somewhat at odds on this. Even Z said there didn’t appear to be justification for what the Bishop said.

OK–I can see the bishops’ points of view.

There are more and more cases in courts these days regarding the faith teachings of separated/divorced children, and they have been vigorously enforced. Check out this story.

foxnews.com/us/2010/03/25/judge-rules-illinois-father-daughter-easter-mass/

As you will see, it was an interfaith marriage between a Catholic and a Jew, and the courts ruled in favor of the Jewish mother.

That case and its circumstances does not match this kind of situation, at all.

By the way, still waiting on your DNA references on the other thread.

I honestly don’t remember which thread. Is this a question about the DNA of the descendants of Joseph Smith versus the DNA of people who others have said were his descendants, but the DNA didn’t match?
What that means as to the question of your Communion is that you already made a choice about marriage, already have a son through having made that choice, already have a wife who evidently loves you, so the position you are now in is one that has followed from choices you have already made. It would seem important and loving to let your wife live by the choices she has already made also with no choice against conscience, and by agreements and understandings you had when you made those first choices and agreed to them. This would not be going against the 11th article of faith. It means the situation you are in (admittedly a predicament and a frustration but perhaps needing to understand that the Holy Spirit can be with you without your having had Communion) has followed from choices you have already made, and the both of you would be following the 11th article of faith while at the same time acknowledging each others’ choices and each others’ conscience and going forward with your differences as best you can work them out.

May the Lord give you peace and I have no question that He will bless your marriage.

 

[kage_ar]

Prayers for all involved, for this poor child - prayers that you will take your Faith seriously and raise your child as a Christian, as a Catholic.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Please help, what should I do? Am I unrighteous to take away her spiritual needs, because she can’t give me mine? I would love to support her, but I find it extremely difficult if she won’t support me.

Seems to me you are doing all the compromising, and every time she agrees to something that works for the both of you she is swayed by outside influences. Also seems she is intent to your son being raised LDS, your wishes be damned. In essence, she is acting as though she has already divorced you and has custody.

It could be as simple as she is doubting your love for her. When one of my brothers married outside of the LDS church, my dad (very devout LDS) told me they didn’t love each other. Because if they did, they would have married in an LDS temple. If she has become unsure of your love and has the little needly bishop’s voices in her ear telling her separation is inevitable…it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It sounds like you are fighting the good fight.

 

[ParkerD]

She also was already married to this man, and it was done without it having been a “Catholic wedding.” I was talking about the original decision to marry. She could change her mind about a subsequent “Catholic marriage” ceremony–she has that right, even if she had said she would do it when initially confronted with the dilemma. In other words, she did not make such a commitment before her original marriage to him.

I disagree that the bishop was telling her to “dump him”. Bishops he has met with have expressed concerns about her desire to receive her endowment under the conditions expressed by the husband. This does not mean she has to “dump him”. It may mean she has to wait to receive her endowment, but again that is because she will be making eternally binding covenants with God and the bishop of course knows that. (Note that baptism was supposed to have been an eternally binding covenant also, so the track record is not all that good here.)

Are you suggesting that she should leave for good? Why not give her a break that these are hard issues in her life and she is going through some difficult decision making?

Of course. I would also say that He is in any marriage where the couple exchanges vows and has God as a part of their life.

I was talking about the initial marriage commitment, not a decision she made when confronted with a need her husband had regarding his choice of religion and its requirements. He had made some pretty serious commitments before she chose to marry him. They were not petty.

OK–I can see the bishops’ points of view.

That case and its circumstances does not match this kind of situation, at all.

I honestly don’t remember which thread. Is this a question about the DNA of the descendants of Joseph Smith versus the DNA of people who others have said were his descendants, but the DNA didn’t match?
What that means as to the question of your Communion is that you already made a choice about marriage, already have a son through having made that choice, already have a wife who evidently loves you, so the position you are now in is one that has followed from choices you have already made. It would seem important and loving to let your wife live by the choices she has already made also with no choice against conscience, and by agreements and understandings you had when you made those first choices and agreed to them. This would not be going against the 11th article of faith. It means the situation you are in (admittedly a predicament and a frustration but perhaps needing to understand that the Holy Spirit can be with you without your having had Communion) has followed from choices you have already made, and the both of you would be following the 11th article of faith while at the same time acknowledging each others’ choices and each others’ conscience and going forward with your differences as best you can work them out.

May the Lord give you peace and I have no question that He will bless your marriage.

I will add that Paul taught “the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband” (1 Corinthians 7:14), so this discussion about the need for marriage in order for the husband to receive Communion should not be having to be held in the first place.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It isn’t about the non-Catholic, it is about the OP being Catholic and required to have a valid marriage.

He is using the term “marriage”, but as he is already married, he is seeking a convalidation.

 

[paulp1002]

P.S. Just to add a note, I am not aware of the obligations that might be imposed on your wife if she entered into a “Catholic marriage” with you. Would that place obligations on her that might prevent her from taking her Mormon temple endowments for example? If that were the case, then my suggestions might be different.

From my understanding, the only obligation that she would have, would be to allow me to practice what I believe and to allow me to teach my son my beliefs and that she may not intervene or prevent me from sharing my beliefs to my son. She would not in anyway have to stop sharing her beliefs to our son. This is basically what we have already agreed on.

I disagree that the bishop was telling her to “dump him”. Bishops he has met with have expressed concerns about her desire to receive her endowment under the conditions expressed by the husband. This does not mean she has to “dump him”. It may mean she has to wait to receive her endowment, but again that is because she will be making eternally binding covenants with God and the bishop of course knows that. (Note that baptism was supposed to have been an eternally binding covenant also, so the track record is not all that good here.)

ParkerD, there are two different bishops. The first bishop was regarding temple sealings. He told her that although he would not suggest that we should divorce. He did tell her that she should not sacrafice God’s commandment for a temple sealing and eternal salvation and that she could find a man that could. Please show me in the bible, where you must have a temple sealing in order to have eternal salvation. The second bishop, who replaced the first told her that she should not marry me in the CC, if she is seeking her endowments.

 

[paulp1002]

Seems to me you are doing all the compromising, and every time she agrees to something that works for the both of you she is swayed by outside influences. Also seems she is intent to your son being raised LDS, your wishes be damned. In essence, she is acting as though she has already divorced you and has custody.

It could be as simple as she is doubting your love for her. When one of my brothers married outside of the LDS church, my dad (very devout LDS) told me they didn’t love each other. Because if they did, they would have married in an LDS temple. If she has become unsure of your love and has the little needly bishop’s voices in her ear telling her separation is inevitable…it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It sounds like you are fighting the good fight.

This is exactly how I feel. Its always what she wants and what’s important to her. It’s never, Paul what is important to you, what do you want? If I would to tell her the importance of me having the baby baptized, or having my marriage convalidated in the CC or even me wanting to take me son to church with me and us switching every other Sunday, she would tell me that she has already sacraficed so much and that I always get what I want, because she has to just give in. If that was true, we wouldn’t be having this conversation on this thread.