Marriage Dilemma – Catholic and LDS

[Jay53]

The man could certainly change his mind about anything he wants to change his mind about, of course, but a marriage decision for each party to the marriage was based on some commitments and a great deal of expectation of honesty about those commitments. He should have investigated more thoroughly before making a commitment about baptism, then this issue becomes a non-issue. But having made the commitments he made, they will need to work out a compromise and just because he “can’t fulfill his religious desires” (which he should have figured out before getting married in the first place) and especially since he is following a belief that is contrary to what the apostle Paul taught anyway so it has no bearing on his relationship with God anyway, and therefore does not impact what goes on inside his soul–she has every right to follow the teachings of her church and the feelings of her conscience, and can change her mind about what she may have said at one time within their marriage.

Are you referring to 1 Cor 7:14 that you had posted earlier?

I don’t believe that has anything to do with the situation that this gentleman faces. If the read the preceding verses, that has to do with whether or not a “believer” should leave an “unbeliever”. St. Paul also tells us that we cannot receive the Body and Blood of our Lord unworthily. (1 Cor 11:27) Therefore, if this gentleman is not in a valid marriage in the eyes of the Lord, but is living as if he is married, then he should not receive the Body and Blood of Jesus. That is part of his dilemma. He needs to make his marriage valid in the eyes of God in order to be able to practice his faith fully and receive the sacraments - regardless of what his wife does in practicing her own faith.

To the OP, I have no advice, but I offer you and your wife my prayers.

 

[twopekinguys]

To Twopekinguys,
This was the original post. The couple was married with an assumption made by the woman about the man she was marrying. They did indeed get married. The bishop was not saying they “shouldn’t get married”–they were already married. I have to assume he was saying the marriage was not what she was going to want in the very long run (eternity). Perhaps he agreed with her if she happened to express regret about her situation since she had assumed her husband was going to be sealed to her in an LDS temple after a year of their civil marriage and after he had kept his baptismal covenants for a year.

Did you bother to read further? “She met with her Bishop who told her that if I couldn’t give her a temple marriage we shouldn’t be married.” (Sounds like he’s tell to dump him now doesn’t it)

The man could certainly change his mind about anything he wants to change his mind about, of course, but a marriage decision for each party to the marriage was based on some commitments and a great deal of expectation of honesty about those commitments. He should have investigated more thoroughly before making a commitment about baptism, then this issue becomes a non-issue. But having made the commitments he made, they will need to work out a compromise and just because he “can’t fulfill his religious desires” (which he should have figured out before getting married in the first place) and especially since he is following a belief that is contrary to what the apostle Paul taught anyway so it has no bearing on his relationship with God anyway, and therefore does not impact what goes on inside his soul–she has every right to follow the teachings of her church and the feelings of her conscience, and can change her mind about what she may have said at one time within their marriage.

But let’s forget the commitments **she **made. Ok, you’ve made yourself clear. You’ve got to come up with something better than that.

 

[Ceeboo]

Good advice from Ceeboo! Good to see you around, and I miss you on the other board.

Hello zerinus,

Good to be seen!

You must be talking about MADB when you refer to the other board, yes?

Yea, I miss ya’ll as well.

Peace,
Ceeboo

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hello zerinus,

Good to be seen!

You must be talking about MADB when you refer to the other board, yes?

Yea, I miss ya’ll as well.

Peace,
Ceeboo

How come you aren’t on MADB anymore?

 

[Ceeboo]

How come you aren’t on MADB anymore?

Hi zaffiroborant,

I am still there, just don’t post nearly as much (Long story)

Do I know you from MADB (Different name maybe?)

Sorry to the OP for going off topic.

Peace,
Ceeboo

 

[why_me]

I would love to share our story. I have hope that she will one day realize that her church is cursed (Galatians Chapter 1 verses 6-9.) I think that she will first need to open her heart and mind, in order to accept Gods true Church

So, the lds church is cursed? It seems that you let your true feelings out of the bag with this comment. And I am sure that it must be difficult to meet your wife’s spiritual needs if you believe that her church is cursed. Something just doesn’t add up now with your original post.

 

[why_me]

But unfortunately her church doesn’t believe in the freedom of religion or believe that you don’t have to be Mormon to be worthy or rightous person. But that is for another thread.) She doesn’t accept my apology, because it still doesn’t give her what she wants.

If I thought my spouse’s church was cursed and that my spouse’s church doesn’t believe in the freedom of religion I would be in a pickle jar for sure. You have now stated both assumptions. Do you actually tell your wife this?

I have known marriages that work perfectly well between a catholic and a mormon. It becomes a problem only if people make it a problem. However, to have a negative attitude toward the spouse’s church would seem to be the greater problem. And if a spouse thinks that the other church is cursed and doesn’t accept freedom of religion, apologies may not work.

 

[why_me]

Perhaps you didn’t notice that the sticking point is mormon marriage.

The sticking point is that he thinks the lds church is cursed. I would think that that would be a major sticking point if he is married to a mormon.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hi zaffiroborant,

I am still there, just don’t post nearly as much (Long story)

Do I know you from MADB (Different name maybe?)

Sorry to the OP for going off topic.

Peace,
Ceeboo

No I just lurk there sometimes, like NOM, FLAK, FE and MD. Kind of weird, you’ll read a kerfuffle on one board about something said on a different one. If you go the the board they are referring to you’ll find many of the same folks only now the underdogs from board A are the top dogs on board B. It’s interesting in a gossipy train-wreck kind of way:blush:

 

[zaffiroborant]

The sticking point is that he thinks the lds church is cursed. I would think that that would be a major sticking point if he is married to a mormon.

Maybe he wouldn’t feel that way if his wife would be more even handed in things like him taking his son to his church and recognizing the importance of having his marriage convalidated something she did agree to.

 

[why_me]

Hello zerinus,

Good to be seen!

You must be talking about MADB when you refer to the other board, yes?

Yea, I miss ya’ll as well.

Peace,
Ceeboo

You were always treated well on MADb but the other board (MDb) corrupted you… You were perhaps one of the favorite catholic posters on MAD.

 

[why_me]

Maybe he wouldn’t feel that way if his wife would be more even handed in things like him taking his son to his church and recognizing the importance of having his marriage convalidated something she did agree to.

Hardly. The attitude runs more deep than that. To find a spouse’s church cursed is rather strong and very problematic. And such feelings can not escape the wife. If her church is cursed, then she is cursed also. It would not be nice when a spouse thinks that the other is cursed for belonging to a cursed church.

Would the wife really appreciate having her son learn that the lds church is cursed from his father as he takes him to the catholic church?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hardly. The attitude runs more deep than that. To find a spouse’s church cursed is rather strong and very problematic. And such feelings can not escape the wife. If her church is cursed, then she is cursed also. It would not be nice when a spouse thinks that the other is cursed for belonging to a cursed church.

Would the wife really appreciate having her son learn that the lds church is cursed from his father as he takes him to the catholic church?

Well since the word cursed according to MW on-line means:

Main Entry: cursed
Pronunciation: \ˈkər-səd, ˈkərst
Variant(s): also curst \ˈkərst
Function: adjective
Date: 13th century

: being under or deserving a curse
cursed·ly adverb
cursed·ness noun

It wouldn’t be surprising that after his treatment by his wife and her church he might feel the LDS church was deserving of a curse.

 

[paulp1002]

So, the lds church is cursed? It seems that you let your true feelings out of the bag with this comment. And I am sure that it must be difficult to meet your wife’s spiritual needs if you believe that her church is cursed. Something just doesn’t add up now with your original post.

Well if I understand what Paul told the Galations in chapter 1, then yes I believe the LDS is cursed. As it is stated in Galatians Chapter 1 verses 8 & 9:

8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received,*** he is to be accursed!***

How was the Mormon church formed? *The angel *Moroni visited Joseph Smith from heaven and instructed him to scribe another gospel. As you know, that “gospel” is called the Book of Mormon and it is currently preached today. Therefore that church is cursed in my opinion. Not to mention the D&C and Pearl of Great Price.

Are there other reasons of why I do not believe in the LDS church? Yes there are many. But I choose not to push them onto my wife and try to force her to convert to God’s true church. God has his own will for each of us, and he will lead her down the path to His true Church when he is ready. As he did for Tundramom, in her case it took 5 years. In my case it may take 5 years or 20 years.

In the meantime who am I to stand in her way for her to believe in what she wants? She can believe in her church if she wants to and I will respect that. That doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it and that I can’t have my own opinions. It’s called freedom of religion.

Now on the otherhand, why is it that everytime I speak with a bishop I have to hear their testimony on why the believe the LDS church to be true? Even after I tell them I am Catholic, they still try to get me to go to church and participate in church activities so that the “mustard seed can grow” (hence one reason I believe they do not believe in freedom of religion.) I’m sure if you have been around the LDS church you have heard the story of the mustard seed. Which is why church is 3 hours, have home/visiting teachers, FHE and at the end of every talk we hear “and I bare to you my testimony on why I know this church is true.” Because if LDS members don’t water their mustard seed, it dies.

The reason of this post; do I have any problems with her getting her endowments? No, and I don’t have to agree with them, because she has the right to believe in what she wants. If I had made my Communion as a child, we wouldn’t be having this conversation because I would have already agreed to sign my permission for her endowments. However my dilemma is, that I didn’t make my Communion as a child and in order for me to get it now, I am required to convalidate my marriage in the Catholic Church. Now there is the possiblity that if she didn’t talk to her bishops and her mother, we may have already convalidated our marriage in the Catholic Church. But unfortunatly due to their bias and their own personal opinions against the Catholic Church we are having this conversation.

If the tables where turned and she was unable to partake in the sacraments on Sunday until she was sealed in the temple, honestly I don’t think we would still be married.

 

[why_me]

Well if I understand what Paul told the Galations in chapter 1, then yes I believe the LDS is cursed. As it is stated in Galatians Chapter 1 verses 8 & 9:

8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received,*** he is to be accursed!***

How was the Mormon church formed? *The angel *Moroni visited Joseph Smith from heaven and instructed him to scribe another gospel. As you know, that “gospel” is called the Book of Mormon and it is currently preached today. Therefore that church is cursed in my opinion. Not to mention the D&C and Pearl of Great Price.

Are there other reasons of why I do not believe in the LDS church? Yes there are many. But I choose not to push them onto my wife and try to force her to convert to God’s true church.

Of course, all this is a matter of interpretation. For mormons they see no contradiction between their church and to what Paul is alluding to about the gospel as preached during Paul’s time. And for mormons, the book of mormon is another testament of Christ. Hardly a contradiction. Also, mormons are known for leading good christian lives, hardly a tool of satan. It is not a question of belief but one of attitude. If you believe that the lds church is cursed, this is a major stumbling block for a peaceful coexistence. It will come up eventually in the marriage if it hasn’t already.

And if you do believe the lds church is a tool of satan, how could you ever allow your own child, the opportunity to set foot in satan’s den? Seems like a high wall to have built by you in calling the lds church cursed.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Of course, all this is a matter of interpretation. For mormons they see no contradiction between their church and to what Paul is alluding to about the gospel as preached during Paul’s time. And for mormons, the book of mormon is another testament of Christ. Hardly a contradiction. Also, mormons are known for leading good christian lives, hardly a tool of satan. It is not a question of belief but one of attitude. If you believe that the lds church is cursed, this is a major stumbling block for a peaceful coexistence. It will come up eventually in the marriage if it hasn’t already.

And if you do believe the lds church is a tool of satan, how could you ever allow your own child, the opportunity to set foot in satan’s den? Seems like a high wall to have built by you in calling the lds church cursed.

As high a wall as was built by the wife in not allowing him to take his son to his church?

 

[dianaiad]

And he originally married a non endowed woman, no garments, why should she be given a pass to change the original agreement?

Why not? HE certainly did. After all, he married her with a promise to take her to the Temple later. She didn’t change her mind, he changed his.

This is a very difficult situation…and we only have his POV. No matter how hard he might try to be objective and fair in presenting the story, he can’t BE objective and fair; it’s not possible.

…and frankly, he didn’t try very hard.

the thing is, I understand that this is an unfortunate situation…he IS asking her to give up more than he can ever imagine–and she’s willing to do it. If she had problems making that decision, then that’s too bad.

Personally, if I had married someone who gave me that promise, and who later reneged, I would be so outa there—for BOTH our sakes–perhaps especially for his, given that he is Catholic, and right now he could divorce her, marry a good Catholic woman and (from what I understand…) not have to worry about the ‘no divorce’ problem, since according to the Catholics, he isn’t really married NOW.

If he were not a father, that would be my strong recomendation. He moved away from her. He broke his promises to her…it doesn’t matter WHY, he just…did.

However, he is a father. His feelings and preferences should be put aside now, and that child should be THE most important person in the decision. If the two can actually work together in this new relationship, then they should.

The problem I see, though, is that he is doing all the changing, all the demanding, and blaming her…and her beliefs. That is not a healthy way to go about this.

Just as an aside, I’m going with the other LDS on this thread who say that if the story is as the OP says, the Bishop was not adhering to church policy in this matter.

As for me, I’d like to hear from her.

 

[zerinus]

paulp1002;6451197:

I would love to share our story. I have hope that she will one day realize that her church is cursed (Galatians Chapter 1 verses 6-9.) I think that she will first need to open her heart and mind, in order to accept Gods true Church

So, the lds church is cursed? It seems that you let your true feelings out of the bag with this comment. And I am sure that it must be difficult to meet your wife’s spiritual needs if you believe that her church is cursed. Something just doesn’t add up now with your original post.

I had missed that post. I am inclined to agree with whyme on that one.

 

[zerinus]

Well if I understand what Paul told the Galations in chapter 1, then yes I believe the LDS is cursed. As it is stated in Galatians Chapter 1 verses 8 & 9:

8But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

9As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received,*** he is to be accursed!***

How was the Mormon church formed? *The angel *Moroni visited Joseph Smith from heaven and instructed him to scribe another gospel. As you know, that “gospel” is called the Book of Mormon and it is currently preached today. Therefore that church is cursed in my opinion. Not to mention the D&C and Pearl of Great Price.

That is kind of funny, because I think it is the Catholic Church that is teaching “another gospel”

 

[paulp1002]

Of course, all this is a matter of interpretation. For mormons they see no contradiction between their church and to what Paul is alluding to about the gospel as preached during Paul’s time. And for mormons, the book of mormon is another testament of Christ. Hardly a contradiction. Also, mormons are known for leading good christian lives, hardly a tool of satan. It is not a question of belief but one of attitude. If you believe that the lds church is cursed, this is a major stumbling block for a peaceful coexistence. It will come up eventually in the marriage if it hasn’t already.

And if you do believe the lds church is a tool of satan, how could you ever allow your own child, the opportunity to set foot in satan’s den? Seems like a high wall to have built by you in calling the lds church cursed.

Well, first off… Thank you for picking and choosing which part of my posts you want to comment on and twist my words around.

Me believing the church is curse, is my belief. It is based on how I interprete the bible. As I said in my previous reply, my wife is able to choose what she wants to believe, no matter how I feel about it. It’s called freedom of religion, she has to the freedom to believe in any religion she chooses, no matter what I think about it. I will try and support her choices, no matter what my personal thoughts are.

I never said that LDS members are not good people, they are indeed good people, I just don’t agree in what they believe. My child is only 5mos old, so it’s not like he is learning anything when she takes him to church. Which is why I don’t understand why she has a problem with me taking him. However, when he is old enough to go to primary (learning to walk,) I will have a problem with him going to primary and we will have to deal with that roadblock when the time comes (if it already hasn’t resolved itself.) I believe its wrong to force false doctrine, and teach about false prophets on such impressible minds, when the child is so young and learning so much. It doesn’t allow a child to choose for themselves. It’s like if you constantly teach a child that the world is flat, they will believe the world is flat.