Marriage, Divorce and Annulment

[tee_eff_em]

What would you say is the average time from the time the petitioner submits a petition to the time is it heard and tried by the tribunal?

Does it vary from diocese to diocese, depending on case load?

This is exactly the reason I have heard of some being counseled to seek a particular tribunal – Because some are more back-logged than others.

Just to mention, the cost can go lower or higher, but all dioceses I’m aware of have a sliding scale fee based on ability to pay.

Pittsburgh recently eliminated the fees completely.

tee
does he really need repeat it?

 

[Martis]

Hi all. I saw this forum and decided to ask my questions too. I got baptized 3 years ago. In all my documents still I’m considered Muslim except my baptism certificate. But neither me nor my parrents and relatives practiced Islam. We don’t know anything about Islam as we were not in believe of religions and actually we were anti-religions.

12 years ago I got married to a Muslim man. Arrangement. To me marriage was not holy. I married him because girls must get married. I don’t think that to him it was different because within less than one year we got divorced. Reason is not important, he was allowed to give me divorce as a Muslim in a Muslim country (Iran) with Islamic laws.

Then again I lived with no religion for 6 years. Then some things happened to me that I found the truth and it took one year till I got baptized as a RC. I had never thought of marriage during all those years. I heard my ex got married some 5 years ago and I don’t know where he is now but I know he has a daughter. Nothing else.

During these 3 years I never had relationship out of marriage and never thought of marriage but recently a Catholic man proposed to me. So I started thinking about my situation. At that time 12 years ago we were not Christian and I was not even Muslim. The vows were funny and I made fun of it because I had no religion. 8 years after that, I decided to get baptized and I accepted all Catholic Church’s teachings.

Plus I have no divorce document, no access to my ex (I’m convert from Islam and considered infidel, if I even find my ex, I can’t ask him to come to the court because an infidel’s punishment is hanging). No witnesses for the same reason. And I don’t live in that country anymore. I don’t have children too.

The Catholic man who has proposed to me, is not that religious and doesn’t care about these things. Plus there is no document to prove that I was married 12 years ago for one year and he says “when there is no document, why do you want to make problem for both of us by filing annulment!?” But I’m so religious and I want to make sure about my situation. As I know if I get married as a divorced, it’s not only adultery but a grave sin and I won’t be able to receive communion anymore.

What should I do?

 

[DCNBILL]

Hi all. I saw this forum and decided to ask my questions too. I got baptized 3 years ago. In all my documents still I’m considered Muslim except my baptism certificate. But neither me nor my parrents and relatives practiced Islam. We don’t know anything about Islam as we were not in believe of religions and actually we were anti-religions.

12 years ago I got married to a Muslim man. Arrangement. To me marriage was not holy. I married him because girls must get married. I don’t think that to him it was different because within less than one year we got divorced. Reason is not important, he was allowed to give me divorce as a Muslim in a Muslim country (Iran) with Islamic laws.

Then again I lived with no religion for 6 years. Then some things happened to me that I found the truth and it took one year till I got baptized as a RC. I had never thought of marriage during all those years. I heard my ex got married some 5 years ago and I don’t know where he is now but I know he has a daughter. Nothing else.

During these 3 years I never had relationship out of marriage and never thought of marriage but recently a Catholic man proposed to me. So I started thinking about my situation. At that time 12 years ago we were not Christian and I was not even Muslim. The vows were funny and I made fun of it because I had no religion. 8 years after that, I decided to get baptized and I accepted all Catholic Church’s teachings.

Plus I have no divorce document, no access to my ex (I’m convert from Islam and considered infidel, if I even find my ex, I can’t ask him to come to the court because an infidel’s punishment is hanging). No witnesses for the same reason. And I don’t live in that country anymore. I don’t have children too.

The Catholic man who has proposed to me, is not that religious and doesn’t care about these things. Plus there is no document to prove that I was married 12 years ago for one year and he says “when there is no document, why do you want to make problem for both of us by filing annulment!?” But I’m so religious and I want to make sure about my situation. As I know if I get married as a divorced, it’s not only adultery but a grave sin and I won’t be able to receive communion anymore.

What should I do?

In such situations it is best to pursue the matter with your local pastor, he should be able to guide you.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Hi all. I saw this forum and decided to ask my questions too. I got baptized 3 years ago.

What should I do?

Present the facts to your pastor. He will know the correct way to handle this.

Few if any of the relative strangers in this forum can gve you any sounder advice.*

tee
(* Least of all, myself)

 

[Martis]

What if they say No for lack of evidence and documents? Because I’m the only one who knows about my past. I’m the only witness.

 

[dans0622]

Hi all. I saw this forum and decided to ask my questions too. I got baptized 3 years ago. In all my documents still I’m considered Muslim except my baptism certificate. But neither me nor my parrents and relatives practiced Islam. We don’t know anything about Islam as we were not in believe of religions and actually we were anti-religions. …

But I’m so religious and I want to make sure about my situation. As I know if I get married as a divorced, it’s not only adultery but a grave sin and I won’t be able to receive communion anymore.

What should I do?

Hello,

I agree with the others’ advice. Your situation is pretty complex. It is not unique, though. In India, I suspect that your situation is more common than in other parts of the world.

There are ways to make sure everything is done appropriately. I encourage you to maintain fidelity to the requirements of the Church.

Dan

 

[Martis]

Hi, I’m Iranian living in India. That marriage happened in Iran. My ex was Iranian too. There is no document in India. Also Iranian government doesn’t mention marital status in Iranian passports. In my passport I’m single.

 

[DCNBILL]

Hi, I’m Iranian living in India. That marriage happened in Iran. My ex was Iranian too. There is no document in India. Also Iranian government doesn’t mention marital status in Iranian passports. In my passport I’m single.

It cases where documentation is lacking sometimes sworn statements can be used, please see your pastor, it is the right place to start.

 

[Martis]

Hello,

I agree with the others’ advice. Your situation is pretty complex. It is not unique, though. In India, I suspect that your situation is more common than in other parts of the world.

There are ways to make sure everything is done appropriately. I encourage you to maintain fidelity to the requirements of the Church.

Dan

Indians don’t have such problems because their marriages are recorded in their passports. Even when they convert, there are other documents in the Indian Court which shows their marital status.

I’m not Indian. There is nothing in my passport to prove it that once I was married. I’m the only witness of it.

What should I say to my parish? It’s more like a confession without document!

 

[Martis]

It cases where documentation is lacking sometimes sworn statements can be used, please see your pastor, it is the right place to start.

Ok, I’ll go and ask my parish priest. I don’t want to make a mistake and commit such a grave sin. Pray for me please.

 

[steve_b]

I heard it once jokingly said that** annulment** is considered "Catholic** divorce’**. When would a Catholic seek one as opposed to the other?

It’s already been said that divorce & annulment are two different realities.
Civil realities and Church realities, see marriage and divorce differently. Civilly a person can divorce and remarry, no problem. Not so in the way the Church looks at divorce and a potential remarriage

As Jesus said, Divorce and remarriage is adultery.

An annulment, if one has received one, says, while a civil marriage took place, a sacramental marriage did NOT take place. (example at the end of the post)

That’s because marriage is a sacrament that both individuals, (each spouse) gives to the other. The priest doesn’t marry the spouses. He is a witness. The spouses marry each other. They give the sacrament to each other.

Annulment of a marriage isn’t automatic after a divorce. It’s a process that might take years. And after the process, an annulment might not be granted after the process ends.

After divorce, an annulment is required before a remarriage takes place, otherwise the parties engage in adultery.
T:

I realize that Catholicism (and God) highly regards marriage and hates divorce, but does the CC allow annulment or divorce in the case of marital infidelity? For example, if one spouse was unfaithful and was unrepentant or even moves out of the house to live with their lover. What options or recourse does the remaining spouse have?

Background:
I am happily-married for 34 years with my first wife. We’ve been through a few rough patches in our marriage but divorce has never been an option for either of us.

I recently saw a thread that contained some back-and-forth about re-marriage and the RCC, which prompted my questions that I’d like to have clarified.

Using that same example

If infidelity was the magic escape clause to get a divorce and move on never looking back, then if one spouse wanted out of their marriage, all they would have to do is have an affair, then tell their spouse they now have a valid reason to end the marriage and off they go. That’s a bit tooooo easy and self serving…right?

Especially as you point out, God hates divorce Malachi 2:16 and one can’t play games with God on anything.

If spouses can’t resolve the difficulties in their marriage, and divorce happens, that doesn’t translate into each can then automatically remarry someopne else after they divorce. In the eyes of God and the Church, they are still sacramentally married until proven otherwise, even though they are civilly divorced.

Their previous marriage must be judged to have not been a sacramental marriage, which could also cover many other circumstances

For example:

realizing this is a bit broad in it’s application

If one has a prenuptual agreement, (depending on the wording and conditions of the agreement) that could show one of the spouses does NOT have permanency in mind for the marriage. They’re already putting in advance, an escape clause, for the possible breakup.

That would show faulty intention upfront of one of the parties. That person or even they together, did NOT give nor have the intention of giving the sacrament to their spouse.

Albeit an imperfect example

 

[Tommy999]

Ok, I’ll go and ask my parish priest. I don’t want to make a mistake and commit such a grave sin. Pray for me please.

Hi Martis,
You are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope and pray things work out favorably for you.

 

[Tommy999]

Tommy, I had a thought about your friend’s mother and her long-suffering. Suffering is never wasted if we offer it in union with Christ’s sufferings. In our modern times especially few seem to understand this and most wish to avoid any and all suffering. But suffering comes to all of us in one form other another. This lady’s sufferings were a blessing in that she bore them well and no doubt offered them to God. It may be that she will see her husband saved because of her prayers and faithfulness. Like St. Monica who prayed for many years for her wayward son, who became St. Augustine.

No one wants to see another suffer, especially if we think it could have been avoided, but it was up to her to decide what she would bear in her marriage for she saw it as a sacrament not just a civil agreement. It appears she was determined to remain true to her vows even if her husband didn’t. His sin made her suffer, but he will suffer more if he never repents. I’m sure she realized this. That she was so kind and gracious in the midst of it all shows that she was a true saint–bearing her cross with and for Christ.

As you explore the Catholic faith, you’ll find that many of the great saints welcomed sufferings so they would have the honor to suffer with their Lord–the martyrs all saw it that way. That’s a foreign concept for many people, even some Catholics, but it is a calling from God to bear sufferings. He gives souls who suffer much special graces to endure them, and more, to take joy in their sufferings. This is the deeper things of God that St. Paul talked about, but it is not for the weak in faith nor for those who who cannot accept it. God knows what each of us can bear–he never lays on any of us what we cannot endure without his grace. And that’s the key–God’s grace, for who can understand suffering or benefit from it without it?

Thanks, Della. A lot for all to ponder in your post.

 

[Tommy999]

It’s already been said that divorce & annulment are two different realities.
Civil realities and Church realities, see marriage and divorce differently. Civilly a person can divorce and remarry, no problem. Not so in the way the Church looks at divorce and a potential remarriage

As Jesus said, Divorce and remarriage is adultery.

An annulment, if one has received one, says, while a civil marriage took place, a sacramental marriage did NOT take place. (example at the end of the post)

That’s because marriage is a sacrament that both individuals, (each spouse) gives to the other. The priest doesn’t marry the spouses. He is a witness. The spouses marry each other. They give the sacrament to each other.

Annulment of a marriage isn’t automatic after a divorce. It’s a process that might take years. And after the process, an annulment might not be granted after the process ends.

After divorce, an annulment is required before a remarriage takes place, otherwise the parties engage in adultery.

Using that same example

If infidelity was the magic escape clause to get a divorce and move on never looking back, then if one spouse wanted out of their marriage, all they would have to do is have an affair, then tell their spouse they now have a valid reason to end the marriage and off they go. That’s a bit tooooo easy and self serving…right?

Especially as you point out, God hates divorce Malachi 2:16 and one can’t play games with God on anything.

If spouses can’t resolve the difficulties in their marriage, and divorce happens, that doesn’t translate into each can then automatically remarry someopne else after they divorce. In the eyes of God and the Church, they are still sacramentally married until proven otherwise, even though they are civilly divorced.

Their previous marriage must be judged to have not been a sacramental marriage, which could also cover many other circumstances

For example:

realizing this is a bit broad in it’s application

If one has a prenuptual agreement, (depending on the wording and conditions of the agreement) that could show one of the spouses does NOT have permanency in mind for the marriage. They’re already putting in advance, an escape clause, for the possible breakup.

That would show faulty intention upfront of one of the parties. That person or even they together, did NOT give nor have the intention of giving the sacrament to their spouse.

Albeit an imperfect example

Thanks for the insights and examples you provided, Steve.

 

[Martis]

Hi Martis,
You are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope and pray things work out favorably for you.

Thanks Tommy

 

[Martis]

Steve, my case is an example. There is no document against me and I can get married in the Catholic Church as a single, but I can’t cheat on God. God knows it’s adultery if that marriage is still valid.

If they ask me to make sworn statement because of lack of evidence, I won’t accept it because I have 1% doubt and I won’t risk. Only if they themselves tell me that my marriage was not valid, I’ll think about remarriage. Otherwise I prefer to become a nun than committing a grave sin like that.

At least one time adultery is forgivable but a divorced remarriage is “Continues Adultery”!

 

[steve_b]

Steve, my case is an example. There is no document against me and I can get married in the Catholic Church as a single, but I can’t cheat on God. God knows it’s adultery if that marriage is still valid.

If they ask me to make sworn statement because of lack of evidence, I won’t accept it because I have 1% doubt and I won’t risk. Only if they themselves tell me that my marriage was not valid, I’ll think about remarriage. Otherwise I prefer to become a nun than committing a grave sin like that.

At least one time adultery is forgivable but a divorced remarriage is “Continues Adultery”!

I understand