Marriage/divorce in protestantism

[Syele]

I know of protestant churchs who won’t remarry people who have divorced. I have seen one refuse to marry a couple (Neither had been married before) because the minister felt they were not ready to be married. I also know of couples that divorced that were asked to leave the church because of it.

 

[Sabda]

St. Michael,

I too would like to know were you get the 93% from. Like it was stated above, you need to keep in mind all those who are converting/reverting to the Catholic Church. I think it’s safe to say that a large percentage would need to get an annulment from previous marriages. Anyone know what the number is for those coming into the Church here in the USA? I’ll bet this number will give us a good reason why there are so many annulments being granted.

 

[Saint_Michael]

St. Michael,

I too would like to know were you get the 93% from. Like it was stated above, you need to keep in mind all those who are converting/reverting to the Catholic Church. I think it’s safe to say that a large percentage would need to get an annulment from previous marriages. Anyone know what the number is for those coming into the Church here in the USA? I’ll bet this number will give us a good reason why there are so many annulments being granted.

The United States has 6% of the worlds Catholics and 76% of the worlds annulments. How would that be possilbe if it were not a high percentage given annulments.

90% of granted US annulments that go to the Roma Rota are overturned.

catholicinsight.com/online/church/divorce/c_annul.shtml

nytimes.com/books/first/v/vasoli-joined.html

It’s not my place to question peoples annulments, but I can question the annulment process when the numbers are so staggering. It is so prevalent in the US, that to try and sit in judgement of Protestant Churches is ill advised at this time IMO.

Protestants can’t get an annulment and they don’t believe in it. Their divorce rate is no different than Catholics.

The 90% number is just a fact, look at the number put to the proceedings and the number granted for any year, it ranges from 86%-95%

Here’s the state of annulments in the US:

1. We account for nearly 80% of all annulments in the world while making up 6% of the worlds Catholic population.
2. Between 85-95% of all annulments are granted.
3. 90% of US annulment cases that go to the Roma Rota are overturned.
4. 1968 600 annulments granted, 1970 +40,000 were granted.

It’s a problem, I faith it’ll be addressed, but in the meantime, trying to bash Protestants on divorce is ill advised, because US Catholics have no leg to stand on IMO.

 

[momstheword]

I’m shooting in the dark based on the few people I’ve known to get annulments, but…
Perhaps 90% of the petitions that actually make it to the “powers that be” are granted because only marriages with grounds for annulment get that far.
I’m fairly certain that the first step in the annulment process is to go to a priest, but if he immediately tells you that there are not grounds for annulment, you do not proceed.
If you have no basis for nullity, your request doesn’t make it very far.

 

[tealblue]

Actually the priest has no bearing on wheather or not a case is tried.the process goes directly to the parishes tribunal advocate.From there its sent off to the mariage tribunal.Its true that about 90 percent of those petitioned get declared nul.My tribunal advocate says she has NEVER had one denied nulity.If you ever read the canon law on annulments it would be hard to find one that doesn’t fit a situation.especially if the other spouse doesn’t respond they almost asume nulity right off.A more astonishing stasistic is that 80 percent of catholics who get divorced don’t seek annulment rather marry outside the church totally.Also you can find non papal catholic churches to marry you without an annulment,I know several people who have done this.Its an epidemic.

 

[Aesq]

Actually the priest has no bearing on wheather or not a case is tried.the process goes directly to the parishes tribunal advocate.From there its sent off to the mariage tribunal.Its true that about 90 percent of those petitioned get declared nul.My tribunal advocate says she has NEVER had one denied nulity.If you ever read the canon law on annulments it would be hard to find one that doesn’t fit a situation.especially if the other spouse doesn’t respond they almost asume nulity right off.A more astonishing stasistic is that 80 percent of catholics who get divorced don’t seek annulment rather marry outside the church totally.Also you can find non papal catholic churches to marry you without an annulment,I know several people who have done this.Its an epidemic.

Many parishes do not have an advocate. The parish priest is generally the first official person involved.

Please support your numbers.

It is interesting that your first post provides misinformation.

 

[Aesq]

The United States has 6% of the worlds Catholics and 76% of the worlds annulments. How would that be possilbe if it were not a high percentage given annulments.

90% of granted US annulments that go to the Roma Rota are overturned.

catholicinsight.com/online/church/divorce/c_annul.shtml

nytimes.com/books/first/v/vasoli-joined.html

It’s not my place to question peoples annulments, but I can question the annulment process when the numbers are so staggering. It is so prevalent in the US, that to try and sit in judgement of Protestant Churches is ill advised at this time IMO.

Protestants can’t get an annulment and they don’t believe in it. Their divorce rate is no different than Catholics.

The 90% number is just a fact, look at the number put to the proceedings and the number granted for any year, it ranges from 86%-95%

Here’s the state of annulments in the US:

1. We account for nearly 80% of all annulments in the world while making up 6% of the worlds Catholic population.
2. Between 85-95% of all annulments are granted.
3. 90% of US annulment cases that go to the Roma Rota are overturned.
4. 1968 600 annulments granted, 1970 +40,000 were granted.

It’s a problem, I faith it’ll be addressed, but in the meantime, trying to bash Protestants on divorce is ill advised, because US Catholics have no leg to stand on IMO.

You have still wholly failed to support the 93% number you originally stated and the links you privided do not really support your numbers and where they do they are very deceptive as they do not distiguish between form and formal petitions and do not factor in people filing who were protestant at the time of the marriage.

LastIy, don’t think anyone was intending to bash protestants by this thread.

 

[tealblue]

yes the priest is the first one involved but he doesn’t decide wheather not the case has merit or not.thats the job of the mariage tribunal.I got a letter the other day saying that I have enough to proceed whith my case.I haven’t personaly called everyone in the us to see if theirs was granted but every article I have read supports 85 to 95 percent.if you read the cannon law on annulments it covers a wide variety of situations.

which part of my post did you say was misinformation,just curious?

 

[Aesq]

yes the priest is the first one involved but he doesn’t decide wheather not the case has merit or not.thats the job of the mariage tribunal.I got a letter the other day saying that I have enough to proceed whith my case.I haven’t personaly called everyone in the us to see if theirs was granted but every article I have read supports 85 to 95 percent.if you read the cannon law on annulments it covers a wide variety of situations.

which part of my post did you say was misinformation,just curious?

You said “Actually the priest has no bearing on wheather or not a case is tried.the process goes directly to the parishes tribunal advocate” This is simply not true. Many parishes do not have a tribunal advocate.

And actually the priest does have a bearing as the priest will often discuss the facts in brief with the person and advise them if it is worth while going forward with filing the case at all. In parishes where there is no advocate it is often the practice that the priest will review the filing before it is sent and advise the petitioner if it appears there may be grounds or not.

Lastly, you made a claim as to the percentage of remarried Catholics getting married outside the Church and have not supported this number with anything and still have not.

 

[tealblue]

I don’t want to split hairs on this I’m just going on personal experience. my priest never asked specifics and neither did the tribunal advocate.They asked me what i wanted to do and sent me the paperwork to acomplish this.The tribunal decided if a case has enough merit to proceed.

again on the divorce and remariage outside the church I won’t split hairs.even looking at the number of catholics who divorce which is only slightly less than secular and the number of annulments granted you have to figure alot of divorced catholics are marrying outside the church.I personely know of several.I read between 50 and 80 percent I can’t know for sure but the number has to be high.anyway the point is the same.

 

[Aesq]

I don’t want to split hairs on this I’m just going on personal experience. my priest never asked specifics and neither did the tribunal advocate.They asked me what i wanted to do and sent me the paperwork to acomplish this.The tribunal decided if a case has enough merit to proceed.

again on the divorce and remariage outside the church I won’t split hairs.even looking at the number of catholics who divorce which is only slightly less than secular and the number of annulments granted you have to figure alot of divorced catholics are marrying outside the church.I personely know of several.I read between 50 and 80 percent I can’t know for sure but the number has to be high.anyway the point is the same.

It is not an issue of splitting hairs. You are asserting how the process works based only on your personal experience. But that is not how you phrased it in your first post. As such, you were effectively make a global claim about the process. That can be very misleading (I am not saying that is what you intended to do) to people who know less about the process than you.

As to the 50 to 80 percent number. That is making the assumption that all or many of the divorced Catholics who did not receive a nullity got remarried. I know many people who are divorced and not remarried, both Catholic and otherwise. Not everyone who gets a divorce gets remarried. All I am trying to say is that if someone is going to make a statement which appears to be a general statement about nullities then it should be backed by real data. This area is very confusing to many people, Catholics and Protestants alike. Therefore, I think we need to be extra careful about what we say about the topic.

Welcome to the forums by the way. Just so you know. There have been posters in the past that made wild unsupported claims about nullites. We just have to be careful not to give out wrong information on a confusing topic.

 

[Mijoy2]

It’s a shame that the Truth behind the churches teachings on the sacrement of matrimony is more widely understood and followed. The theological roots are deep and the sacrement is a beautiful reflection of God’s love for us.

If the protestant churches that allow remarriage understood the beauty of the catholic churches teachings…well, they’d probably become catholics

 

[Aesq]

If the protestant churches that allow remarriage understood the beauty of the catholic churches teachings…well, they’d probably become catholics

They do become Catholic. One at a time.

 

[tealblue]

welll I know alot of people are up in arms about the whole thing because they think it makes too easy for people to get remarried.I’m not even catholic yet so I never heard of any restriction on getting remarried till 4 months ago.my ex was an adultress so I thought I had total justification.I apologize I though my numbers from these catholic websites were acurate but maybe not.but the 90 percent nulity rate is a fact I have read in many places.I personell think its more of a problem about the marriages not the process.

 

[Sabda]

I know many people who are divorced and not remarried, both Catholic and otherwise. Not everyone who gets a divorce gets remarried.

My parents were divorced years ago and my mother has sense gotten an annulment. She has never remarried and has no intentions of remarrying. It simply made her feel better to get the annulment.

 

[jmcrae]

My former spouse is remarried in the Methodist church and is now contesting a nullity of our marriage. So, obviously protestants can have some interesting views of marriage.

That’s hilarious.

Have you asked her to come back home, then, if she feels so strongly that she is still married to you?

 

[jmcrae]

90% of granted US annulments that go to the Roma Rota are overturned.

That’s incorrect - they can only go to Rome in the case of a tie (which means that no ruling has been given - thus, no Declaration of Nullity has been granted) - but yes, it’s true that if it goes to Rome, Rome will usually rule against giving the Declaration of Nullity.

Not because they are more pro-marriage than we are, but because there is already doubt in the case (hence, the tied vote at the local level - obviously there is some point of the case that is debatable or else they would have been unanimous either one way or the other), and Rome always rules in favour of the marriage, whenever there is any doubt. The only case where they would grant a Decree of Nullity where the local Tribunal had a tie vote is if the local Tribunal overlooked some really obvious piece of evidence (like that the putative couple was brother and sister) that they just happened to find when the case went to Rome. The chances of something like that happening are pretty slim, though - local Tribunals are generally very thorough.

 

[RWMorris]

Has anyone ever heard of a protestant church denying two people marriage because they were previously married to another?

Yes, the church my wife grew up in follows the Bible closely. Remarriage is only allowed upon the death of a spouse. Divorce is only allowed when one spouse commits adultery, and the divorcing spouse must attempt reconciliation until the divorced spouse dies. Then and only then can the divorcing spouse remarry.

This isn’t some small local church, but a large church with congregations in about 30 countries. I do not want to call the name of it for personal reasons.

 

[RWMorris]

Where do you get your 93% number? Please give your references for such a claim and what types of petitions it includes.

“In 1986, under the current jurisprudential system, on the authority of an assistant secretary of the U.S. Catholic Conference it was stated that “approximately 90% of separated and divorced Catholics could obtain annulments from the Church.””
- Msgr. Clarence J. Hettinger, Too Many Invalid Annulments, Catholic Polls, Inc., December 1993
- J. Filteau, “Church Courts Called Answer for Divorced-Remarried Catholics,” Florida Catholic, January 3, 1986, p. 12 (catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=350)

“A high percentage of cases that are tried end in a declaration of nullity. From 1984 to 1994 it was 97% for First Instance trials. All cases however have to have a second trial. The percentage of decisions overturned in the United States is 4/10 of 1%. “What the picture reveals is that mandatory review, and appeals leading to retrials at Second Instance, have done very little to tarnish America’s reputation as the annulment capital of the universe.””
- Fr. Leonard Kennedy, The Annulment Crisis in the Church, Catholic Insight, March 1999 (catholicinsight.com/online/church/divorce/c_annul.shtml)

 

[Aesq]

“In 1986, under the current jurisprudential system, on the authority of an assistant secretary of the U.S. Catholic Conference it was stated that “approximately 90% of separated and divorced Catholics could obtain annulments from the Church.””

How does this support the 93% number exactly. This is the 20 year old opinion of one person that 90% of divorced Catholics Could obtain annulments. This does not support the 93% number claimed by another poster at all.

If people are going to make claims and show numbers they should be able to back those numbers by something other than someone’s opinion.