Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

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I’m also questioning whether a secular therapist was the way to go. I know that he would listen to and respect a secular therapist better. There was a Christian counselor I considered but decided to contact someone listed on the American Association of marriage and family therapists web page. She accepted our insurance as well, making the services no out of pocket cost. However, she was unavailable so she sent us to our current therapist. She said that she had seen good results from this therapist and highly recommended her.

I just don’t know how soon to expect results. I’ve read that there should be results after 3-4 sessions but I’m not seeing much. The current therapist says to be patient and that therapy takes time. I understand that but I fear that she may not be getting us anywhere. If I do not see results I’d eventually like to consider switching - but I don’t want to end up with someone worse. The therapist seems pro-marriage but her suggestions are to just “have fun together” and haven’t really gone past that. Maybe she’s right and it is just a matter of time. I just don’t know. I do think Dh respects her and listens to her. I don’t dislike her, but I get the gut feeling that she seems to “side” with Dh on some issues because she had an “angry ex” and can identify. I feel it’s somewhat inappropriate to bring her personal life into this. I do feel that she “sides” with me on some issues too (especially sex and hormones) possibly because she relates there as well. I really don’t know what’s appropriate as I’ve never seen a counselor before. She is convinced that she can help us work things and wants to work with us on forgiveness. Dh says we will give her a few more sessions and then talk about it. I don’t want to give up on her too soon as I’m not sure that another counselor would be better.

We could do phone counseling with a Catholic counselor but I’d strongly prefer to see someone in person who accepts our insurance. He agrees to counseling but I don’t know if he’d want to pay extra to see one who isn’t in our network. I’d also prefer to see someone in person. I suppose we could continue to see our therapist and do phone counseling as well.

I could just be over thinking things. Wouldn’t be the first time :o
 
bernadettefaith:

“The therapist seems pro-marriage but her suggestions are to just “have fun together” and haven’t really gone past that. Maybe she’s right and it is just a matter of time.”

I think that’s probably a message your husband needs to hear, and yes, I think you should have fun together, particularly new activities or places.

“I do think Dh respects her and listens to her.”

That is huge.

It may seem like she is siding with one or another of you, but she isn’t consistently against just one of you.

I think just having your husband commit to counseling is such a big deal. Him agreeing to see a female counselor is big, too. And yes, you could really do a lot worse–there was a thread going yesterday from a guy whose marriage counselor was trying to get him to stop going to church.

I think there is some point to switching counselors, once you feel like you’ve gotten everything you can get from this one, but move carefully! It’s a gamble, but I would suggest making sure that anybody you choose is either female or religious. So I think you might do well with either a male Catholic counselor or a female secular counselor, but I think going with a male secular counselor is risky. A divorced male secular counselor would be the trifecta!

Best wishes!
 
Xantippe said:
bernadettefaith:

“The therapist seems pro-marriage but her suggestions are to just “have fun together” and haven’t really gone past that. Maybe she’s right and it is just a matter of time.”

I think that’s probably a message your husband needs to hear, and yes, I think you should have fun together, particularly new activities or places.

“I do think Dh respects her and listens to her.”

That is huge.

It may seem like she is siding with one or another of you, but she isn’t consistently against just one of you.

I think just having your husband commit to counseling is such a big deal. Him agreeing to see a female counselor is big, too. And yes, you could really do a lot worse–there was a thread going yesterday from a guy whose marriage counselor was trying to get him to stop going to church.

I think there is some point to switching counselors, once you feel like you’ve gotten everything you can get from this one, but move carefully! It’s a gamble, but I would suggest making sure that anybody you choose is either female or religious. So I think you might do well with either a male Catholic counselor or a female secular counselor, but I think going with a male secular counselor is risky. A divorced male secular counselor would be the trifecta!

Best wishes!
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Thanks! The only Catholic counselor available to us does phone counseling only but is male.
I haven’t heard back from him but I don’t believe he’s covered by insurance - which is a big thing as counseling is usually over $100 an hr.

I doubt this counselor is practicing any religion but was raised Protestant. She’s been divorced once but there may have very well been abuse - he had a temper and refused help.
She’s currently married. She was surprised when I told her the Catholic views on marriage,
remarriage, and openness to life. She said that it was really strict - but I suppose that’s what 99% of society would say. I don’t believe she had children.

There’s only one religious counselor available in our area and it is a female so I’m not sure that would work. He probably would have even less respect for a Protestant counselor because while he doesn’t like the Catholic Church he is even
less crazy about other denominations.

So we will see. I’m thinking we will continue seeing her individually one week and together the next, alternating weeks. We see her individually on Thurs and I’m hoping that talking to her one on one can clear things up. There’s a lot I want to say but can’t say in front of Dh.
 
Give it some time. Therapy is something that does take time. The therapist has to figure out what the problems are, the root of those problems, figure out what to do about it, and then lead you guys to the same conclusions when you’re ready. She can lead you to water, but you guys have to be willing to drink it. It takes time and it takes work. Some things will take more time and work than others. Especially with one of you being more of a romantic that doesn’t really understand that true love does take some effort and isn’t going to be 50 years of the same feelings one has when infatuated.

If it helps, neither the DH or I were practicing any religion when we were going through our big rough patch. And yet we honored our commitment, stayed faithful and married, and are doing better than we were when we met and first started dating. Faith can be a big deal when it comes to saving a marriage, but the reality is that people of faith get divorced every day. Sometimes it’s just personal honor that keep a marriage together until the rough patch passes.
 
MJJean said:
Give it some time. Therapy is something that does take time. The therapist has to figure out what the problems are, the root of those problems, figure out what to do about it, and then lead you guys to the same conclusions when you’re ready. She can lead you to water, but you guys have to be willing to drink it. It takes time and it takes work. Some things will take more time and work than others. Especially with one of you being more of a romantic that doesn’t really understand that true love does take some effort and isn’t going to be 50 years of the same feelings one has when infatuated.

If it helps, neither the DH or I were practicing any religion when we were going through our big rough patch. And yet we honored our commitment, stayed faithful and married, and are doing better than we were when we met and first started dating. Faith can be a big deal when it comes to saving a marriage, but the reality is that people of faith get divorced every day. Sometimes it’s just personal honor that keep a marriage together until the rough patch passes.
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I suppose that our case might take longer than others because Dh seems to be so confused that it’s hard to tell exactly what the root of the problem is.

I also believe that faith helps but isn’t everything. I believe that we can fix our marriage even if he doesn’t have a strong faith. Right now, his reasons for staying married are the kids, money, and personal commitment (doesn’t want to fail). Not the best reasons but it is keeping him here :confused:

Hanging in there is just so difficult when I’m in pain 😦 It will soon be 4 months since Dh first told me about this. Initially he thought he could fall back in love without professional help and things got a tiny bit better at first. I had so much hope! Then a month later things got even worse to the point to where he is now - basically little to no physical contact. He’s been the extra affectionate type for the last 13 years so it’s so extremely weird when he doesn’t touch me. He’s not ready to try anything yet and I’m giving him space.
 
Bernadettefaith said:

“Right now, his reasons for staying married are the kids, money, and personal commitment (doesn’t want to fail). Not the best reasons but it is keeping him here :/”

None of those are bad reasons (he probably also would be embarrassed in front of his parents). It would just be nice to add, “because he loves bernadettefaith madly and thinks she is the best thing that ever happened to him.”

By the way, the embarrassment factor is a reason to not bring the in-laws into this. If one of the worst things he can imagine is having his parents know you are having marital problems, telling them yourself is throwing away a good card.
 
Xantippe said:
Bernadettefaith said:

“Right now, his reasons for staying married are the kids, money, and personal commitment (doesn’t want to fail). Not the best reasons but it is keeping him here :/”

None of those are bad reasons (he probably also would be embarrassed in front of his parents). It would just be nice to add, “because he loves bernadettefaith madly and thinks she is the best thing that ever happened to him.”

By the way, the embarrassment factor is a reason to not bring the in-laws into this. If one of the worst things he can imagine is having his parents know you are having marital problems, telling them yourself is throwing away a good card.
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I agree. I’ll probably hold off on talking to his parents unless it gets really desperate. Honestly, I don’t believe he’d listen to them anyway. They would be disappointed in this situation and his lack of faith - but he’s a grown man and has never really cared what they thought before.

I was pleasantly surprised that a secular counselor didn’t tell him to get out if the marriage isn’t making him happy.
 
Bernadette,

How is your husband’s spiritual life? Remember, A family that prays together stays together!
 
bernadettefaith said:

“I agree. I’ll probably hold off on talking to his parents unless it gets really desperate. Honestly, I don’t believe he’d listen to them anyway. They would be disappointed in this situation and his lack of faith - but he’s a grown man and has never really cared what they thought before.”

Then there’s no point in telling them.

“I was pleasantly surprised that a secular counselor didn’t tell him to get out if the marriage isn’t making him happy.”

A secular counselor of any experienced is used to dealing with single people who are unhappy and divorced people who are unhappy, etc. She will be very much clear on the fact that (barring abusive situations) it’s not being married or not being married that makes people happy or unhappy.

No counselor worth their salt is going to buy your husband’s theory that all he has to do is find the perfect woman and his problems will be over. In fact, as you were mentioning upthread, your counselor was pushing back against that idea.
 
When men brag about their war exploits, there is a good chance the story they tell is a fabrication. The soldiers I know who have been in combat usually refuse to talk about their experiences, and when they do, the events they share are horrific.
 
Mayita30 said:
Bernadette,

How is your husband’s spiritual life? Remember, A family that prays together stays together!
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Well not so great. He doesn’t like organized religion - was raised Catholic. He goes to mass with us if he’s off on a Sunday but says he doesn’t get anything out of it.

He’s not atheist but just doesn’t like the church I guess 🤷
 
Bernadette, I think this is the problem. The lack of spiritual formation is keeping your husband from being the Spiritual Leader of your home. I personally do not believe so much in psychologists most tend to have a secular view although I won’t discourage it either. All I am saying is that selfishness, a sense of entitlement, lack of humility , pride are the root cause of almost all problems and this is because we don’t have spiritual formation or we don’t have Jesus in our heart.

Maybe you can try praying with him at night this prayer :

St. Francis prayer

Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy.

O, Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love;
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
it is in dying that we are born again to eternal life.
 
bernadettefaith,

When rebuilding your marriage, it might be useful to reflect back on the more happy moments in the past, and then try to repeat those experiences if you can in the present.

It might also be helpful to re-establish communication by simply listening to one another without commenting or giving advice. Simply listen and pay strict attention to what the other person is saying and feeling.

It might even be helpful, at some point during the conversation, to let the other know what was heard and understood.

This process, of course, should go both ways. That is, you listen to your husband, and then he listens to you.

I would use I-statements and avoid expressing negative feelings, judgments, and criticisms at this point.

The purpose of this exchange is to re-establish a line of communication, not dredge up past hurt, regrets, and disappointments.

You may want to share this idea with your therapist first before implementing it.
 
Artar1 said:
bernadettefaith,

When rebuilding your marriage, it might be useful to reflect back on the more happy moments in the past, and then try to repeat those experiences if you can in the present.

It might also be helpful to re-establish communication by simply listening to one another without commenting or giving advice. Simply listen and pay strict attention to what the other person is saying and feeling.

It might even be helpful, at some point during the conversation, to let the other know what was heard and understood.

This process, of course, should go both ways. That is, you listen to your husband, and then he listens to you.

I would use I-statements and avoid expressing negative feelings, judgments, and criticisms at this point.

The purpose of this exchange is to re-establish a line of communication, not dredge up past hurt, regrets, and disappointments.

You may want to share this idea with your therapist first before implementing it.
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The counselor has also said to try doing things that we did together when we were happy. We have tried some of these things but he just says that he has a hard time being comfortable because he’s afraid he’s going to say or do something that will makes angry. I suppose that my lack of anger helps as he sees that I’m keeping up with the changes. He’s just not ready to believe that the change is for good.

We’ve been having friendly conversation for the most part. I try to listen as well as I can. That was probably a big issue in the past because the little ones tend to interrupt our conversations - hard to talk over a screaming baby sometimes. He tells the counselor that he doesn’t like to confide in me about work. He says he doesn’t know why - he just doesn’t want to. However, in the last week he’s started talking about work a little more. So we do seem to be working on a friendship at the moment. I try to be as supportive as possible not to say anything negative. He does the same and generally only made the comments in the past if I specifically asked how he was feeling or what his plans were.

Thank you for your ideas.
 
Good. It sounds as if you are making some progress. It will take a lot of time.
 
I’m going to stop entertaining the idea that maybe he did stop loving me before marriage. His actions always showed love and I am sure that I (or family and friends) would have noticed something if he were truly not into the marriage. He was always the picture perfect husband - kind, patient, respectful, caring. We dated for 6 years before that so I knew him pretty well and never suspected anything was off at the time. He still maintains that he wanted a lifelong commitment and wanted to have children with me. So if he wanted a lifelong commitment, treated me in a loving way, respected me, trusted me, and wanted a romantic relationship - then how was that not love?

Something might be going on with him - other than the obvious relationship issues - but I’m sure that there was love there (and I believe it’s still there somewhere).
 
bernadettefaith said:
I’m going to stop entertaining the idea that maybe he did stop loving me before marriage. His actions always showed love and I am sure that I (or family and friends) would have noticed something if he were truly not into the marriage. He was always the picture perfect husband - kind, patient, respectful, caring. We dated for 6 years before that so I knew him pretty well and never suspected anything was off at the time. He still maintains that he wanted a lifelong commitment and wanted to have children with me. So if he wanted a lifelong commitment, treated me in a loving way, respected me, trusted me, and wanted a romantic relationship - then how was that not love?

Something might be going on with him - other than the obvious relationship issues - but I’m sure that there was love there (and I believe it’s still there somewhere).
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👍 I agree!
 
bernadettefaith said:

“I’m going to stop entertaining the idea that maybe he did stop loving me before marriage.”

Yes!

I probably mentioned it upthread, but I strongly recommend reading C.S. Lewis’s The Four Loves. It’s short and an easy read. It’s about the different varieties of love (affection, friendship, erotic love and divine love) and how neither affection, friendship nor erotic love is able to stand on its own.
 
Xantippe said:
bernadettefaith said:

“I’m going to stop entertaining the idea that maybe he did stop loving me before marriage.”

Yes!

I probably mentioned it upthread, but I strongly recommend reading C.S. Lewis’s The Four Loves. It’s short and an easy read. It’s about the different varieties of love (affection, friendship, erotic love and divine love) and how neither affection, friendship nor erotic love is able to stand on its own.
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I feel so much better if I get the negative thoughts out of my head. I kept trying to analyze everything he did in the early years of our marriage and never came to the conclusion he was unhappy.

I will have to read that book soon. That book has been referenced in a lot of books I’ve read recently.
 
bernadettefaith said:
I feel so much better if I get the negative thoughts out of my head. I kept trying to analyze everything he did in the early years of our marriage and never came to the conclusion he was unhappy.

I will have to read that book soon. That book has been referenced in a lot of books I’ve read recently.
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And begin living in the present…every day is a new day
 
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