Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

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Julianna,

I don’t think he’s really that complicated. Bernadettefaith gains nothing by doing the stuff you suggest, particularly since her husband seems unusually and surprisingly open to therapy and medication. There will always be a $9 or $10 an hour job, but she won’t always have the opportunity to save her marriage.

I also think that his sex drive is (for whatever physiological or psychological reason) depressed. BF loses nothing by seeing if she can’t get it running again. There’s nothing degrading about trying to be a wife to her husband, and lots of men get shot down frequently by their wives and still keep asking. Plus, BF herself has needs, and as she says, she has her whole life ahead of her to be celibate. (BF should have a good look at her chart, of course–that may figure into her husband’s anxiety.)

Bernadettefaith,

A few more ideas:
  1. Try getting physically closer and physically affectionate, but without pressure to perform. Watch TV together (something light and funny) and sit on the sofa together and snuggle. (Maybe do some online research on the subject or order a book and figure out the stuff your counselor should have told you to do as homework.)
  2. Have you read those stories about how certain scents have a powerful affect on men?
abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodResourceCenter/sexually-arousing-smells-pumpkin/story?id=12226715

Baking some pumpkin muffins or switching to lavender shampoo or walking past a donut shop might have some very interesting results.
  1. I suggest doing small, fancy desserts rather than huge calorific ones and explaining the moderate calorie count so your husband doesn’t feel you are sabotaging his weight and career prospects. My husband has lately enjoyed dark chocolate. One square is just 60 calories and tastes decadent. And dark chocolate is good for you!
  2. Another thing that occurs to me is that along with redirecting the anger or anxiety he feels from work onto you, he may be doing the same thing with the kids. Namely, he may feel bad about getting mad at the kids, but being with them may be stressful and demanding, and he’s redirecting that anger and anxiety onto you. I did that when my oldest kids were your kids’ age. Eventually, I realized that I needed to yell at the kids more, and to yell less at my husband. (If I ever write a marriage advice book, I’ll try to turn that into the title.) I was sweet as pie with the kids (no matter how they made me feel–a loving mother never gets mad!) and then would blow up at my husband. Ask your husband in counseling how the kids make him feel.
It might also be worthwhile to point out to him that if you are his anger and anxiety outlet, then getting rid of you just makes his situation that much worse. (Obviously, it would be better if he dealt with his anger and anxiety in a more mature way.)
 
Xantippe said:
Julianna,

I don’t think he’s really that complicated. Bernadettefaith gains nothing by doing the stuff you suggest, particularly since her husband seems unusually and surprisingly open to therapy and medication. There will always be a $9 or $10 an hour job, but she won’t always have the opportunity to save her marriage.

I also think that his sex drive is (for whatever physiological or psychological reason) depressed. BF loses nothing by seeing if she can’t get it running again. There’s nothing degrading about trying to be a wife to her husband, and lots of men get shot down frequently by their wives and still keep asking. Plus, BF herself has needs, and as she says, she has her whole life ahead of her to be celibate. (BF should have a good look at her chart, of course–that may figure into her husband’s anxiety.)

Bernadettefaith,

A few more ideas:
  1. Try getting physically closer and physically affectionate, but without pressure to perform. Watch TV together (something light and funny) and sit on the sofa together and snuggle. (Maybe do some online research on the subject or order a book and figure out the stuff your counselor should have told you to do as homework.)
  2. Have you read those stories about how certain scents have a powerful affect on men?
abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodResourceCenter/sexually-arousing-smells-pumpkin/story?id=12226715

Baking some pumpkin muffins or switching to lavender shampoo or walking past a donut shop might have some very interesting results.
  1. I suggest doing small, fancy desserts rather than huge calorific ones and explaining the moderate calorie count so your husband doesn’t feel you are sabotaging his weight and career prospects. My husband has lately enjoyed dark chocolate. One square is just 60 calories and tastes decadent. And dark chocolate is good for you!
  2. Another thing that occurs to me is that along with redirecting the anger or anxiety he feels from work onto you, he may be doing the same thing with the kids. Namely, he may feel bad about getting mad at the kids, but being with them may be stressful and demanding, and he’s redirecting that anger and anxiety onto you. I did that when my oldest kids were your kids’ age. Eventually, I realized that I needed to yell at the kids more, and to yell less at my husband. (If I ever write a marriage advice book, I’ll try to turn that into the title.) I was sweet as pie with the kids (no matter how they made me feel–a loving mother never gets mad!) and then would blow up at my husband. Ask your husband in counseling how the kids make him feel.
It might also be worthwhile to point out to him that if you are his anger and anxiety outlet, then getting rid of you just makes his situation that much worse. (Obviously, it would be better if he dealt with his anger and anxiety in a more mature way.)
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Thank you!

I’ve definitely let aggression out on him that was directed toward other people, especially the kids. I have no doubt that the kids (well the 5 yr old, not the baby) irritate him. He seems to be a lot calmer with them lately, maybe because he is using up all the anger with me.

I was thinking of making banana bread, but pumpkin bread or muffins may work better 🙂 If nothing else, it will give myself and the kids something yummy regardless of what dh thinks.
 
Xantippe said:
One more thing–if he has a big physical for the new job, have a good look at the results.

I would be very curious if some of his symptoms aren’t the result of low testosterone.

healthline.com/health/side-effects-of-low-testosterone#2

Interestingly, fatherhood is associated with a drop in testosterone levels.

webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20110912/testosterone-may-drop-when-men-become-dads
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Yes! The only other online group I’ve chatted with (police wives group) has suggested low T quite often. It could even contribute to his migraines. I’m sure they will run blood work at the time though I don’t know about testing for low T.
 
bernadettefaith said:
My dad is a banker and could help me with a mortgage. I wouldn’t expect him to pay for it, but since I’ll have the cash for a down payment, a mortgage is way cheaper than rent. We have paid around $300 a month.

He has no reason to move for this job. He’d be working in the same area.

Regardless of whether my parents know what is going on or not, they will be able to watch the children. I have no doubt about that. My mom was somewhat disappointed that she didn’t get to babysit as we moved too far for her to do so.

The problem lies in where I would be applying for a teaching job. Do I leave my home in the fall and take a teaching job in a different area? Do I search in my parents’ area? Do I search in my current location? If I get a job that is anywhere other than near my current home then I will have to leave possibly before he does. Does that make sense?

I do believe I could look into an aide position as well. The pay is less, maybe $9 an hour but enough to get me on my feet in this area.
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That’s the spirit. It’s $9.00 an hour to get you started “in your area”. Stay in your home…he hasn’t left…I do pray he comes to his senses and sees that he needs not look any further than his own backyard for the many blessing you and the kids have given him… In the “real” world, you need to be “pro active” for yourself. You have got to get a foot in the door right where you are. Once a separation is made…and lawyers are involved, you may not see that child support check “right away”…these things take time. You will need a separation agreement. He may choose not to follow it…you will have to get a lawyer to make sure he satisfies the agreement. You don’t have any means to hire a lawyer…he knows this.

My friend had her home sold right out from under her and her 3 girls. Silly woman, didn’t have her name on the mortgage…so he sold the house. She hadn’t worked in years and the youngest girl was 9, the oldest 13 and one in between. She moved to my area and I hired her. I couldn’t pay her enough and her lights were cut off and she had no food. One of my staff was her best friend and she paid the light bill for her. She “knew” she wasn’t prepared. She had a car, the clothes for her and the girls and used money from a yard sale for their furniture to move and get a deposit on an apt. His lifestyle didn’t change. He had the money from the sale of the house and bought himself a condo. It was close to two years before she got one dime of child support. She had no money for a lawyer, so time stopped.

You have a leg up on my friend. You are wide awake and know what is going on. The 3 months he is gone is going to put a damper on any job plans …or…not. You can tell him that you are applying for sub jobs and you will be taking money out of the budget for childcare. Or call your mother and ask her to come stay with you at the house for 3 months. My mother wouldn’t hesitate. If your youngest has separation issues…I suggest you talk to your pediatrician about it as soon as possible and make him/her aware of the situation. I worked in childcare for many years and I have seen little ones with separation anxiety and it is normal. As a professional, I was able to deal with it as was my staff. This was the 80’s and it was not uncommon for kids to through this. You are the primary person in their lives, they know this…what you will be doing is for them. You cannot help what their father chooses…but you can help where “you” are going.
 
Julianna said:
That’s the spirit. It’s $9.00 an hour to get you started “in your area”. Stay in your home…he hasn’t left…I do pray he comes to his senses and sees that he needs not look any further than his own backyard for the many blessing you and the kids have given him… In the “real” world, you need to be “pro active” for yourself. You have got to get a foot in the door right where you are. Once a separation is made…and lawyers are involved, you may not see that child support check “right away”…these things take time. You will need a separation agreement. He may choose not to follow it…you will have to get a lawyer to make sure he satisfies the agreement. You don’t have any means to hire a lawyer…he knows this.

My friend had her home sold right out from under her and her 3 girls. Silly woman, didn’t have her name on the mortgage…so he sold the house. She hadn’t worked in years and the youngest girl was 9, the oldest 13 and one in between. She moved to my area and I hired her. I couldn’t pay her enough and her lights were cut off and she had no food. One of my staff was her best friend and she paid the light bill for her. She “knew” she wasn’t prepared. She had a car, the clothes for her and the girls and used money from a yard sale for their furniture to move and get a deposit on an apt. His lifestyle didn’t change. He had the money from the sale of the house and bought himself a condo. It was close to two years before she got one dime of child support. She had no money for a lawyer, so time stopped.

You have a leg up on my friend. You are wide awake and know what is going on. The 3 months he is gone is going to put a damper on any job plans …or…not. You can tell him that you are applying for sub jobs and you will be taking money out of the budget for childcare. Or call your mother and ask her to come stay with you at the house for 3 months. My mother wouldn’t hesitate. If your youngest has separation issues…I suggest you talk to your pediatrician about it as soon as possible and make him/her aware of the situation. I worked in childcare for many years and I have seen little ones with separation anxiety and it is normal. As a professional, I was able to deal with it as was my staff. This was the 80’s and it was not uncommon for kids to through this. You are the primary person in their lives, they know this…what you will be doing is for them. You cannot help what their father chooses…but you can help where “you” are going.
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I don’t think I would be able to pay for full time daycare on a sub or aide job. When dh’s schedule changes he can babysit 3 days a week until/unless he gets the new job. So that leaves subbing as a possibility but not much else for 3 days a week daytime only as he works extra in the evenings on days off.

I doubt my mom would stay in my home for any extended period of time. She regularly babysits my nephew. It wouldn’t be fair to my sister to give up her free babysitting for me.
 
Julianna said:

"You will need a separation agreement. He may choose not to follow it…you will have to get a lawyer to make sure he satisfies the agreement. You don’t have any means to hire a lawyer…he knows this. "

Bernadettefaith has supportive and (it sounds like) financially solid parents. I think she’s going to be OK, no matter what.

Nothing’s on fire right now. No need to panic.
 
Yes and that is wonderful. She is blessed. She will need to be prepared to move as soon as he “moves out”, because she will not be able to stay there with no money and no job. Some women are not as lucky to have financially solid parents.
 
Xantippe said:
Julianna said:

"You will need a separation agreement. He may choose not to follow it…you will have to get a lawyer to make sure he satisfies the agreement. You don’t have any means to hire a lawyer…he knows this. "

Bernadettefaith has supportive and (it sounds like) financially solid parents. I think she’s going to be OK, no matter what.

Nothing’s on fire right now. No need to panic.
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Yes, my parents are quite well off financially. My dad is still employed. They’ve also received large amounts from inheritance as our relatives have passed. I don’t hesitate for a second to think that they would help financially. My mom has shared a large chunk of my uncle’s inheritance with my sister and myself. I don’t want to write out all of my personal stuff on here but I think I’m ok with the lawyer fees.
 
Bernadettefaith said:

“Yes, my parents are quite well off financially. My dad is still employed. They’ve also received large amounts from inheritance as our relatives have passed. I don’t hesitate for a second to think that they would help financially. My mom has shared a large chunk of my uncle’s inheritance with my sister and myself. I don’t want to write out all of my personal stuff on here but I think I’m ok with the lawyer fees.”

Very good.

If you and your husband were in trouble and your dad was starting to talk retirement, you might want to give them a heads-up on your issues, but as long as your dad is happily working, there’s no need.
 
Yes, he has 5 years left before he plans to retire. He’s in charge of the bank and unless they train someone soon they need him there to survive. He’s only 60 right now so he wants to wait it out to get his full retirement.
 
Bernadettefaith,

You’re young, you’re smart, you’ve only got two kids, you haven’t been out of work that long, your husband is gainfully employed, your parents are well off and supportive–you’re going to be OK.

Best wishes!
 
bernadettefaith said:
Yes, my parents are quite well off financially. My dad is still employed. They’ve also received large amounts from inheritance as our relatives have passed. I don’t hesitate for a second to think that they would help financially. My mom has shared a large chunk of my uncle’s inheritance with my sister and myself. I don’t want to write out all of my personal stuff on here but I think I’m ok with the lawyer fees.
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:hmmm:So…either way this story turns out…you are in the catbird seat. Makes sense to me now. What’s the point of working…when…eh…you really don’t have to bust and move to be your own person. Interesting.

If you would have brought this up say…500 posts ago…then it would be a no brainer.

I would flat out say to him, “Are you in, or out?” If you;re out, go now…the kids and I have a place to go. My dads lawyer will contact your lawyer.

Piece of cake. You are blessed indeed my dear…blessed indeed.😃
 
bernadettefaith said:
Dh wants to consider leaving and I am not considering that at all. I said that divorce isn’t the answer and she said the sometimes it is if he’s still unhappy. She more or less said that she’d like us to work out but that the marriage should make Dh happy. If he’s not happy then she doesn’t think he has a choice but to leave. She still does not really have many suggestions for us. She even said that maybe we should try someone else to see if they had ideas. I don’t think I want to go back to her if she says she supports marriage but also believes that divorce would make Dh happy.
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Wow. The counselor needs to go, now. It is really sad that this is a Christian marriage counselor’s perspective on marriage. I would totally take her up on her suggestion to find someone else. sethadamsmith.com/2013/11/02/marriage-isnt-for-you/
 
EnglishTeacher said:
Wow. The counselor needs to go, now. It is really sad that this is a Christian marriage counselor’s perspective on marriage. I would totally take her up on her suggestion to find someone else. sethadamsmith.com/2013/11/02/marriage-isnt-for-you/
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No, she’s not a Christian counselor. I’d considered a different counselor who was Christian but not sure. She’s generally unprofessional and compared me to her ex-husband. It’s not just that she supports divorce but basically just let’s Dh spend the session complaining with no suggestion on how to change anything he complains about.

I’m not ready to give up on my marriage just yet and seeing someone else can’t hurt. Depending on how the job issues turn out, we may attend Retrouvaille in Jan. I definitely won’t give up without trying it as it sounds like it has worked miracles before.
 
bernadettefaith said:
No, she’s not a Christian counselor. I’d considered a different counselor who was Christian but not sure. She’s generally unprofessional and compared me to her ex-husband. It’s not just that she supports divorce but basically just let’s Dh spend the session complaining with no suggestion on how to change anything he complains about.
I’m not ready to give up on my marriage just yet and seeing someone else can’t hurt.
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I think that is a good plan. It sounds like she is not worth whatever you are paying her; and worse than that, she is doing more harm than good.
bernadettefaith said:
Depending on how the job issues turn out, we may attend Retrouvaille in Jan. I definitely won’t give up without trying it as it sounds like it has worked miracles before.
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Yes, I have heard many wonderful things about Retrouvaille; I hope you and your husband can attend!
 
EnglishTeacher said:
I think that is a good plan. It sounds like she is not worth whatever you are paying her; and worse than that, she is doing more harm than good.

Yes, I have heard many wonderful things about Retrouvaille; I hope you and your husband can attend!
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Well luckily we aren’t wasting a dime on counseling. Our insurance is paying 100%. 🙂

So at least I can try as many counselors as needed as long as they accept our insurance.
 
bernadettefaith said:

“She’s generally unprofessional and compared me to her ex-husband. It’s not just that she supports divorce but basically just let’s Dh spend the session complaining with no suggestion on how to change anything he complains about.”

I had no idea that was what your pair sessions look like. Awful. A good counselor should have a plan for your sessions and should be pushing you along well-greased tracks, not just letting either of you gripe.

OK–on to the next counselor! This time, I suggest you give a brief overview of your situation for the first half of the appointment and then ask them to explain what they usually do in this situation in the second half. Maybe do a preliminary appointment with three counselors (if you can find that many in your area) and then together decide who to see. (If you can work well enough together to do that, that’s pretty much proof that you can save your marriage, in my opinion.) You can add a Christian counselor into the mix as one of the options, if you can find one. It might, or might not be helpful to also try for at least one male counselor among the three.

Good luck!
 
bernadettefaith said:
Yes, he says that he holds back on things that are hurtful because he doesn’t like to hurt me. He did promise to tell everything that has upset him in the past as he remembers it.

On the other hand, is it good for him to tell me how angry and anxious he gets in my presence? He says that I’m not doing anything at the moment but just being near me angers him. I did ask him to stop telling me that he doesn’t love me. I’m not trying to make him hold his feelings in but I feel that once I’ve heard it once I don’t need to constantly hear it.

I hope that makes sense. I’m never sure how to approach this.
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It hurts to see you making the same mistake I made time and time again. In my desire to fix things, I’d bombard my husband with each new idea or suggestion that came my way…not seeing this as a huge part in perpetuating what I wanted to fix.

This process adds to the anxiety and frustration they already have and pushes them farther away. It’s hard to be patient and prioritize what you’d like to address in the marriage counselors office, it’s tempting to run each new idea by him on a daily basis. But please listen to me and others who are telling you…have fun, relax, this won’t happen overnight.

He has agreed to give this process a year…you already know how much a baby grows in a year…smell the roses along the way…limit the time spent fixing the problem.

If you need to write about your fears, anxieties and worries do so…along with ideas, then put them aside to enjoy time with dh doing things you enjoy, it’s frustrating to hear, hobbies socialize etc but we are trying to tell you…making a hobby out of fixing your marriage is no way to fix your marriage.

Good luck and God Bless
 
LROH said:
It hurts to see you making the same mistake I made time and time again. In my desire to fix things, I’d bombard my husband with each new idea or suggestion that came my way…not seeing this as a huge part in perpetuating what I wanted to fix.

This process adds to the anxiety and frustration they already have and pushes them farther away. It’s hard to be patient and prioritize what you’d like to address in the marriage counselors office, it’s tempting to run each new idea by him on a daily basis. But please listen to me and others who are telling you…have fun, relax, this won’t happen overnight.

He has agreed to give this process a year…you already know how much a baby grows in a year…smell the roses along the way…limit the time spent fixing the problem.

If you need to write about your fears, anxieties and worries do so…along with ideas, then put them aside to enjoy time with dh doing things you enjoy, it’s frustrating to hear, hobbies socialize etc but we are trying to tell you…making a hobby out of fixing your marriage is no way to fix your marriage.

Good luck and God Bless
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Thank you!
I do try to avoid any and all relationship talk outside of counseling. Usually we end up talking about it for a day after counseling but not always. We’ve mostly talked about whether or not the counselor is effective. Usually I just get my relationship talk out of my system by coming here or talking to other friends.

I’m able to keep distracted and busy with the kids - unless he’s home. Then of course I get reminded of how distant he is.

I did bring up Retrouvaille on Sat. after counseling but that’s because if we go I need to schedule that ahead of time. He’s on board with it.

Other than that, I don’t tell him the suggestions I get from others unless he asks. He has asked a few times and I’ve given him some details, but not all.

If you don’t mind sharing, did you end up working things out in your marriage? You can message me if you want - or if that’s too personal it’s ok not to share 🙂
 
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