Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

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Julianna said:
In cases such as the three As…the Church readily grants an annulment…I can’t think of any priest who tell a woman…to stay with her abuser.
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I don’t know that this is always true. What if a spouse develops mental health problems (for instance) years AFTER the marriage takes place, leading to abuse. Or becomes addicted to drugs, or whatnot, well into the marriage. Or what if he/she commits makes a mistake (or a few mistakes) and commits adultery years into the marriage, with no prior plans or tendencies in that direction at the time of marriage. Surely, that wouldn’t invalidate the marriage itself??

(Not that I’m advocating that anyone stay with a spouse like this, but these things don’t make the marriage invalid, automatically, surely??) :confused:
 
TraderTif said:
I don’t know that this is always true. What if a spouse develops mental health problems (for instance) years AFTER the marriage takes place, leading to abuse. Or becomes addicted to drugs, or whatnot, well into the marriage. Or what if he/she commits makes a mistake (or a few mistakes) and commits adultery years into the marriage, with no prior plans or tendencies in that direction at the time of marriage. Surely, that wouldn’t invalidate the marriage itself??

(Not that I’m advocating that anyone stay with a spouse like this, but these things don’t make the marriage invalid, automatically, surely??) :confused:
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I agree that it’s possible. Things could happen during the marriage that would not necessarily mean that it was invalid at the start. Either way, it’s not necessary to stay with that person.
 
blessedwith3 said:
Julianna;11426036:
Well you can follow God’s word or not. St. Rita’s husband abused her for 20 years. She prayed for him constantly and he converted right before his death. People make mistakes, don’t they deserve forgiveness and a chance to redeem themselves, we are all sinners afterall. Yes, I agree if a man is constantly beating you or having an affair with several women or over and over, or you have an addict and can’t deal with it, you should not have to sit there and take it , but you should then pray for that man while staying loyal to the vows you made. Please don’t make it seem like I don’t know what I am talking about. My husband is having an affair. If you read my other posts you will know what’s going on. I have a family to keep in tact and I promised my husband and God that I would stick with it “FOR BETTER OR WORSE” not until things got too messy and I wanted out. It is my job to get my husband to heaven, right? That’s what I signed up for and I intend to do just that. (Don’t get me wrong it is the hardest thing I ever had to do, but I am working for my salvation as well as his and our children). God says forgive 70 x 7. He forgives murderers, adulterers, fornicators, drug addicts, etc. I think we could all use a little humbling in area. Yes, I know women are beat, lives are endanger, I didn’t say they had to stay, I said not remarry. I am not going to sit here and put my life in danger either, but I am not going to break my vows.

As for BF, I commend her for sticking with this and living up to her vows, and I encourage her to keep it up. From current experience, I know it is not easy, but we are living for God not ourselves. For the record, I respect your opinion, but completely disagree.
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First…I’m sorry for your struggle…we too have had our struggles…no affairs but no less damaging to our marriage and the trust… After twice doing retrouvaille and prior to each marriage counseling, one year later I saw I’d made some big changes, hubby hadn’t. He was pushing for the old me…he is in leased apt after a screaming match…no legal separation, we are married. Being married doesn’t mean subjecting myself to verbal and emotional abuse to honor and obey him as a ruler…it actually helped keep us both sick. We both know this and both want to make things work.

Within one week of being alone…he doesn’t like it, doesn’t like what he sees. Now we are fortunate that he was working in counseling before crisis hit…probably helped bring it to a head so we could move forward. Hopefully he will learn that it’s okay to be forgiven and trust himself to become trustworthy regardless of who’s looking…because it matters to him. I’ll hopefully learn its okay to say no.

There’s never a good time for this…wasn’t good when kids were little and any paycheck I could anticipate wouldn’t cover daycare. (1st retrouvaille) Wasn’t good the week he started a home based business. We love each other but love isn’t enough, he was shocked that I planned to be at grand opening…THAT is love and honor…I will no longer obey in sin. He knows that and unless or until he is willing to live together with that understanding, I’ll forgive him till the cows come home, I’ll pray for him and do all I can to set a healthy example of respect, but I won’t go down a road I know is going to harm me, him or our children. Abuse isn’t just physical…it’s control via loss of emotional trust and manipulation that comes long before the first blow.

He expected me to refuse to even consider grand opening…to me it’s something we worked for…kids don’t get mom saying be there, it’s not my job to punish a man wracked in guilt. Seems like sitting in an apartment w/o family is doing that just fine. He’s not comfy with what he now has freedom to see.

Got offers to go …snoop…nope. I’ll know if I can trust the man I married or not down the road a few months, that will be soon enough to reevaluate without creating more drama and havoc. Not saying I wouldn’t hire an investigator if the situation changes and warrants it…just wont wrap myself up in the crazy sickness with “friends” looking to enhance their life with reality or even hope of someone else’s awful life.

That said, if he were in relationship w/someone other than himself…I’d never try to keep him home. Quickest way for a man to know grass isn’t greener is to find out. Know many women who have healed and forgiven, know men who have grown to appreciate what they nearly threw away and then come to forgive their foolishness by embracing that much stronger what they had no appreciation for before. Every one of those couples went through retrouvaille…some had even divorced legally and started annulment proceedings when they decided to give it one more shot. Love isn’t enough, it takes two to commit.
Sorry to be so long. Praying for everyone on the thread.
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Juliana,

I am so sorry for your struggles in your marriage. It’s very sad to hear. I just want you to know that we at CAF support you and pray for your future.

You are right that no woman should put up with an affair and you definitely are not obliglated to stay in a marriage where trust has been broken. Please continue to post on CAF and get all that pain off your chest. You are a strong woman Juliana! God bless your family.
 
My marriage isn’t perfect either. Sometimes our baggage rears it’s ugly head and we struggle with name calling and hot tempers. We are both getting a lot better and we shield the kids from our tempers and the name calling is toned down if the kids are around.

My husband and I are immature. We get tired and stressed out and then we take it out on each other. It’s not right. We both know it. Things have improved greatly over the last 6 years and now we are a lot less abusive towards eachother.

I have been taking the lead on the high road and my husband has been following my good example. I am happy that he also wants to be a good husband to me.

So even though we have hot tempers and verbally abuse eachother, I have decided that my marriage is good for me because we are both growning and learning. We are both learning to be better people.

So a marriage can have some abuse in it and still be healthy IMO. I really believe that b/c we all have our sorrows and hardships that make us stumble on our journey to be a better person. So long as the married persons are committed to eachother and committed to becoming better people, the marriage can grow and blossom into something beautiful. That’s what life is all about.
 
Serap said:
Juliana,

I am so sorry for your struggles in your marriage. It’s very sad to hear. I just want you to know that we at CAF support you and pray for your future.

You are right that no woman should put up with an affair and you definitely are not obliglated to stay in a marriage where trust has been broken. Please continue to post on CAF and get all that pain off your chest. You are a strong woman Juliana! God bless your family.
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Just to clarify, it’s Blessedwith3 who posted about the marriage. Julianna had quoted her and that’s why it looks like she was the poster.
 
lroh said:
blessedwith3;11428625:
first…i’m sorry for your struggle…we too have had our struggles…no affairs but no less damaging to our marriage and the trust… After twice doing retrouvaille and prior to each marriage counseling, one year later i saw i’d made some big changes, hubby hadn’t. He was pushing for the old me…he is in leased apt after a screaming match…no legal separation, we are married. Being married doesn’t mean subjecting myself to verbal and emotional abuse to honor and obey him as a ruler…it actually helped keep us both sick. We both know this and both want to make things work.

Within one week of being alone…he doesn’t like it, doesn’t like what he sees. Now we are fortunate that he was working in counseling before crisis hit…probably helped bring it to a head so we could move forward. Hopefully he will learn that it’s okay to be forgiven and trust himself to become trustworthy regardless of who’s looking…because it matters to him. I’ll hopefully learn its okay to say no.

I did not post the above

What you quoted was not a post from me… I did not write that… Blessedw3 posted it
there’s never a good time for this…wasn’t good when kids were little and any paycheck i could anticipate wouldn’t cover daycare. (1st retrouvaille) wasn’t good the week he started a home based business. We love each other but love isn’t enough, he was shocked that i planned to be at grand opening…that is love and honor…i will no longer obey in sin. He knows that and unless or until he is willing to live together with that understanding, i’ll forgive him till the cows come home, i’ll pray for him and do all i can to set a healthy example of respect, but i won’t go down a road i know is going to harm me, him or our children. Abuse isn’t just physical…it’s control via loss of emotional trust and manipulation that comes long before the first blow.

He expected me to refuse to even consider grand opening…to me it’s something we worked for…kids don’t get mom saying be there, it’s not my job to punish a man wracked in guilt. Seems like sitting in an apartment w/o family is doing that just fine. He’s not comfy with what he now has freedom to see.

Got offers to go …snoop…nope. I’ll know if i can trust the man i married or not down the road a few months, that will be soon enough to reevaluate without creating more drama and havoc. Not saying i wouldn’t hire an investigator if the situation changes and warrants it…just wont wrap myself up in the crazy sickness with “friends” looking to enhance their life with reality or even hope of someone else’s awful life.

That said, if he were in relationship w/someone other than himself…i’d never try to keep him home. Quickest way for a man to know grass isn’t greener is to find out. Know many women who have healed and forgiven, know men who have grown to appreciate what they nearly threw away and then come to forgive their foolishness by embracing that much stronger what they had no appreciation for before. Every one of those couples went through retrouvaille…some had even divorced legally and started annulment proceedings when they decided to give it one more shot. Love isn’t enough, it takes two to commit.
Sorry to be so long. Praying for everyone on the thread.
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If my husband cheated on me once, I would likely forgive. If he did it again, I would separate and see if we could heal.

A third time, I would very likely be gone for good.
 
I might be able to forgive one isolated incident depending on the circumstances. Any more than that and I don’t think I could.

I’ve not “been there” though so I can’t say for sure if I would or wouldn’t stay after one incident. Definitely wouldn’t stay if it happened more than once.
 
bernadettefaith said:
I might be able to forgive one isolated incident depending on the circumstances. Any more than that and I don’t think I could.

I’ve not “been there” though so I can’t say for sure if I would or wouldn’t stay after one incident. Definitely wouldn’t stay if it happened more than once.
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Me too. My DH is not the cheating type, so this is not an issue for us.
 
Hello Bernadette.

Hope things are better for you now. Anyway I just read something in the internet and I thought about you…I’m just gonna copy and paste it…

In a perfectly happy relationship between friends or lovers, both the involved people consider each other as equals. But when a selfish partner or friend starts to believe that they’re more important than the other partner in the relationship, they’d convince themselves that their partner needs them more than they need their partner.

It is very important that you understand this fundamental idea, because this is the foundation of all selfishness. If your friend or lover believes they don’t really need you but you need them a lot, that’s when they expect you to do all the giving, while they extract everything you can give.

A selfish person will behave selfishly around you only when they truly believe that you need them more.

I don’t know who your husband is but if you have been doing all the giving there will come a time where there wont be anything more to give. You will be drained out and tired of trying too much so what this posts suggest is that you may wanna back out with the hopes of getting a reaction from him…reverse psychology…
 
Thank you. We’re doing ok here. Nothing major to report. He’s been in a pretty good mood lately.
 
@Julliana

I apologize for confusing the post and hope it didn’t cause you too much strife. Yikes 😊
 
Just a quick update:

We saw our new counselor today and we both liked him a lot. He’s very professional, provides feedback, and actually has hope and a plan for us. He didn’t want to put Dh on the spot but did ask him to clarify the goal (amicable co-parenting vs working on marriage). So I’m glad that he wants to get a commitment to working on the marriage before starting with us. That way we will have a clear goal to work toward. We’re going to discuss our goal in the next session.

Dh didn’t mind too much that this guy is a practicing Catholic and will not recommend divorce. He wasn’t thrilled that he was a seminarian but it’s not a deal breaker.

The only issue is that he can’t justify billing our insurance as he doesn’t consider either of us to have a mental illness especially since we aren’t on meds. It would only be $70 a session but I’m thinking we might be able to go 1-2 times a month. I’d prefer not to have to pay but I think it’s worthwhile to get a therapist who is professional, organized, and doesn’t take sides.

One more thing (guess this wasn’t a quick update after all). The other day Dh was talking about a co-worker and how his soon to be ex has cheated many times, refuses to cooperate with anyone, and refers to herself as “princess.” Dh admitted that I’m a gem compared to her. Maybe if he knew how many people have terrible marriages he would realize that ours isn’t quite so bad.
 
If the counselor is good then I think the money is an inexpensive investment. I know people who spend more that $70 a week on entertainment. To save a marriage it’s a bargain!

This new guy sounds promising.

I’m glad the DH is seeing a bit of real life. Maybe that will help him see that another woman isn’t the solution. After all, he could end up with a woman just like the Princess. Some of them appear normal until the ring goes on, ya know!
 
Bernadettefaith said:

“The only issue is that he can’t justify billing our insurance as he doesn’t consider either of us to have a mental illness especially since we aren’t on meds. It would only be $70 a session but I’m thinking we might be able to go 1-2 times a month. I’d prefer not to have to pay but I think it’s worthwhile to get a therapist who is professional, organized, and doesn’t take sides.”

Yes!

If your husband quibbles about the money, tell him “Marriage is grand. Divorce is 50 grand.” If this guy can save your marriage, $70 once or twice a month is the deal of the century.

“One more thing (guess this wasn’t a quick update after all). The other day Dh was talking about a co-worker and how his soon to be ex has cheated many times, refuses to cooperate with anyone, and refers to herself as “princess.” Dh admitted that I’m a gem compared to her. Maybe if he knew how many people have terrible marriages he would realize that ours isn’t quite so bad.”

Gah–princesses. I hate princesses.

In my experience, unless you know somebody pretty well, they seem to have a great marriage, right up until the divorce.
 
MJJean said:
If the counselor is good then I think the money is an inexpensive investment. I know people who spend more that $70 a week on entertainment. To save a marriage it’s a bargain!

This new guy sounds promising.

I’m glad the DH is seeing a bit of real life. Maybe that will help him see that another woman isn’t the solution. After all, he could end up with a woman just like the Princess. Some of them appear normal until the ring goes on, ya know!
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If you had to fork out $3,000 b/c your husband was sick or your child was sick, would you do it? Of course you would. Your marriage is “sick” right now and it needs an operation and some medicine. It’s well worth it!
 
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