Marriage Outside the Church

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urwestend22

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Just wondering what the consequences are of having a marriage outside the church. I am a baptized, confirmed Catholic (also a godparent of a newborn catholic niece) - my fiance is Episcopal.

We are getting married this year at our country club and are having an outdoor ceremony. I know this will not be recognized by the Church and it is one of the few things that irks me about the Catholic beliefs. But just wondering what are the underlying consequences in the eyes of the church? Am I going to hell?

I don’t attend church regulary, and prob should attend more - but I have been told various things on this topic. And it is making question whether I want to be Catholic. How can you condemn or judge someone for not having their marriage ceremony in a church? Am I no different before and after the ceremony? I could be the nicest and kindest person in the world, but since I didn’t get married in the church - the church looks down on me?

Also - the whole reason I am Catholic is because I was baptized Catholic - at like 6 months old. I couldn’t even think for myself or know anything about the religion. then you get confirmed at 10 or 12 and it still the same scenario. I think most teaching to young catholics are done out of fear - do this or your going to hell. Go to church each sunday or your a bad person. Do this or else your a sinner. I don’t agree with that.

I believe in a God that the underlying teaching is be a good person. Treat others like you would want to be treated. Do that - and the rest takes care of itself.

Back to the marriage though - am I really going to hell or excommunicated in the eyes of the church for having a beautiful outdoor wedding?
 
urwestend22 said:
Just wondering what the consequences are of having a marriage outside the church. I am a baptized, confirmed Catholic (also a godparent of a newborn catholic niece) - my fiance is Episcopal.

We are getting married this year at our country club and are having an outdoor ceremony. I know this will not be recognized by the Church and it is one of the few things that irks me about the Catholic beliefs. But just wondering what are the underlying consequences in the eyes of the church? Am I going to hell?
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no one can answer that question as it depends on your disposition at the moment of death. But you don’t know when that moment will come. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life separated from Christ’s grace in the sacraments of the Catholic Church? Do you really place so little value on your marriage commitment that you would attempt it outside that grace?
 
Well, there easier ways to work through this 1) request dispensations for the marriage as listed (provided the husband has no problem with catholic kids), 2) request a non ceremony wedding in the church just before the outdoor ceremony,3) request a convalidation of the wedding after the outdoor ceremony. In any or all cases start by meeting with the local parish priest early as possible.
 
Here are the issues. My church will only marry us on days available and the date we have selected is not available - so we would likely have to have the church wedding weeks before our ceremony/reception. But I have even heard on this forum that you can’t have a ceremony after the church wedding??? Either way - I think its silly to have to go through that.

Seperated from God’s grace? I don’t understand - so by getting married outside the church and committing myself to my wife till death do us part (same vows are said in a ceremony outside the church as they are inside a church) - i fall out of the grace of God. So I am looked down upon by God for doing such a horrible act - when really, the only thing that is likely to be different is the actual LOCATION of the wedding ceremony. We will probably have a scripture reading, say the normal vows, or write our own. So everything will likely be identical to a Catholic Ceremony (not a full mass of course because she is not Catholic and even in a Church, we would not have full mass), it just will not take place in an actual Church.

It just doesn’t make much sense to me.
 
It sounds like you have lots of questions you’d like answered in addition to your wedding question. These are valid, important questions that deserve answers. I strongly suggest you make an appointment with your parish priest to talk with him about these questions as well as ask him about the wedding. There is also good information about some of your questions here at catholic.com. Taking the time to find out what the Church teaches will probably dispel some myths and save a lot of heartache later.

A dispensation from your bishop is probably all you need. Having a spouse that is nonCatholic may be reason enough for one - that’s something you’d just have to ask.

God bless you in your upcoming marriage.
 
urwestend22 said:
Seperated from God’s grace? I don’t understand - so by getting married outside the church and committing myself to my wife till death do us part (same vows are said in a ceremony outside the church as they are inside a church) - i fall out of the grace of God.
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yes
by disobeying deliberately Church law on marriage you voluntarily with full free will and knowledge separate yourself from Eucharist and the other sacraments of the Church, which are the source of Christ’s grace on Earth. Moreover instead of entering a valid sacramental marriage, with the full endowment of the grace of Christ and help of the Holy Spirit in this demanding vocation, you deliberately enter into an invalid marriage. YOur choice. Not a punishment, a consequence.

as by your own testimony you have willingly and deliberately absented yourself from Mass and the sacraments for quite some time, I am unable to determine why this would trouble you now? Unless, which I suspect, the Holy Spirit is using the occasion of your marriage preparation to move your heart to return to Christ and His Church. For which we pray heartily.
 
urwestend22 said:
Here are the issues. My church will only marry us on days available and the date we have selected is not available - so we would likely have to have the church wedding weeks before our ceremony/reception. But I have even heard on this forum that you can’t have a ceremony after the church wedding??? Either way - I think its silly to have to go through that.

Seperated from God’s grace? I don’t understand - so by getting married outside the church and committing myself to my wife till death do us part (same vows are said in a ceremony outside the church as they are inside a church) - i fall out of the grace of God. So I am looked down upon by God for doing such a horrible act - when really, the only thing that is likely to be different is the actual LOCATION of the wedding ceremony. We will probably have a scripture reading, say the normal vows, or write our own. So everything will likely be identical to a Catholic Ceremony (not a full mass of course because she is not Catholic and even in a Church, we would not have full mass), it just will not take place in an actual Church.

It just doesn’t make much sense to me.
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Though I struggle to follow your post, it still seems you really need to sitdown with the priest. He can advise you on what he needs to either get a dispensation or allow you a marriage in correct forum (no ceremony) in the church. If he agrees to marry you on a Tuesday night in the church with only 2 witness everybody in jeans 4 weeks before the ceremony at the country club what is the problem?
 
First, welcome to the forums, and congratulations on your upcoming marriage.

From what you have posted it seems to me that you are somewhat focused on the wrong things. You seem more focused on the ceremony of your wedding (its date, location, etc.) rather than with the sacrament of marriage. Both are important, but one lasts a day, the other a lifetime.

Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church, a public sign of the commitment and love between husband and wife, which itself is a reflection of the love of Christ for the Church. This is why the Church normally requires that the ceremony be held in a church, the same way that other scaraments are normally celebrated in Church.

The Church also requires couples to undergo some preparation for this sacrament together (when my wife and I got married last year, our preist half-jokingly called it “a little bit of quality control”). The specific requirements vary by diocese and even by parish, but the idea is to make sure that both parties understand and accept the fundamental truths about marriage and the commitment they are entering into.

Second, you seem more focused on the Church’s rules and regulations than on the reasoning behind the rules and regulations. I personally find it helpful to remember that the Church’s marriage requirements are not about making life difficult (although it can feel that way sometimes) but are about preparing us for what we are undertaking.
urwestend22 said:
I don’t understand - so by getting married outside the church and committing myself to my wife till death do us part (same vows are said in a ceremony outside the church as they are inside a church)
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This expresses at least some of the key elements of what marriage entails in the Catholic Church. . . a lifelong exclusive commitment between husband and wife. Thats’s good.

Unfortunately, not everyone entering into marriage really sees it that way. Some see marriage simply as a matter of convenience “as long as things work out.” Some couples don’t even see fidelity as a basic requirement to marriage anymore. The Church does not assume you properly understand the commitment of marriage unless you have been instructed and prepared for it. So the Church, effectively, “assumes the worst.” If a Catholic has entered a marriage outside the Church’s requirements, the Church treats the marriage as invalid.
urwestend22 said:
Here are the issues. My church will only marry us on days available and the date we have selected is not available - so we would likely have to have the church wedding weeks before our ceremony/reception. But I have even heard on this forum that you can’t have a ceremony after the church wedding???
Click to expand...
Now, we can focus on the pracical side of things, which is where you find yourself (for very understandable reasons). You’ve found the woman you love! You want to spend your life together! You’ve got a date and a location picked out! Oh, wait, my Church says none of it really means anything unless I do it their way.

There are a lot of practical questions about dates and locations, etc. that could impact where you go from here. It sounds like the planned wedding date is months away rather than weeks away, so that probably gives you time to work through those issues. The main advice I would have is this: Call the parish where you live, or where you (sometimes) attend Mass. Ask to speak with the priest, not a wedding co-ordinator, parish secretary, etc. Ask to meet with him in person. Explain to him that you are Catholic and that you are engaged. Tell him that you did not know until recently about the Church’s requirements for marriage and that you have planned a ceremony at an outdoor location. Tell him that while you have not always been the best Catholic, your faith is important to you, and you want to have a marriage that will be valid in the eyes of the Church. Ask him for his help and his advice. Be willing to be flexible on things you can be flexible on, and stay focused on what really matters. In the long run, it will strengthen your relationship with God, with the Church, and with your spouse.

Good luck, and prayers for your and your fiance.
 
First, welcome to the forums, and congratulations on your upcoming marriage.

From what you have posted it seems to me that you are somewhat focused on the wrong things. You seem more focused on the ceremony of your wedding (its date, location, etc.) rather than with the sacrament of marriage. Both are important, but one lasts a day, the other a lifetime.

Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church, a public sign of the commitment and love between husband and wife, which itself is a reflection of the love of Christ for the Church. This is why the Church normally requires that the ceremony be held in a church, the same way that other scaraments are normally celebrated in Church.

The Church also requires couples to undergo some preparation for this sacrament together (when my wife and I got married last year, our preist half-jokingly called it “a little bit of quality control”). The specific requirements vary by diocese and even by parish, but the idea is to make sure that both parties understand and accept the fundamental truths about marriage and the commitment they are entering into.

Second, you seem more focused on the Church’s rules and regulations than on the reasoning behind the rules and regulations. I personally find it helpful to remember that the Church’s marriage requirements are not about making life difficult (although it can feel that way sometimes) but are about preparing us for what we are undertaking.
urwestend22 said:
I don’t understand - so by getting married outside the church and committing myself to my wife till death do us part (same vows are said in a ceremony outside the church as they are inside a church)
Click to expand...
This expresses at least some of the key elements of what marriage entails in the Catholic Church. . . a lifelong exclusive commitment between husband and wife. Thats’s good.

Unfortunately, not everyone entering into marriage really sees it that way. Some see marriage simply as a matter of convenience “as long as things work out.” Some couples don’t even see fidelity as a basic requirement to marriage anymore. The Church does not assume you properly understand the commitment of marriage unless you have been instructed and prepared for it. So the Church, effectively, “assumes the worst.” If a Catholic has entered a marriage outside the Church’s requirements, the Church treats the marriage as invalid.
urwestend22 said:
Here are the issues. My church will only marry us on days available and the date we have selected is not available - so we would likely have to have the church wedding weeks before our ceremony/reception. But I have even heard on this forum that you can’t have a ceremony after the church wedding???
Click to expand...
Now, we can focus on the pracical side of things, which is where you find yourself (for very understandable reasons). You’ve found the woman you love! You want to spend your life together! You’ve got a date and a location picked out! Oh, wait, my Church says none of it really means anything unless I do it their way.

There are a lot of practical questions about dates and locations, etc. that could impact where you go from here. It sounds like the planned wedding date is months away rather than weeks away, so that probably gives you time to work through those issues. The main advice I would have is this: Call the parish where you live, or where you (sometimes) attend Mass. Ask to speak with the priest, not a wedding co-ordinator, parish secretary, etc. Ask to meet with him in person. Explain to him that you are Catholic and that you are engaged. Tell him that you did not know until recently about the Church’s requirements for marriage and that you have planned a ceremony at an outdoor location. Tell him that while you have not always been the best Catholic, your faith is important to you, and you want to have a marriage that will be valid in the eyes of the Church. Ask him for his help and his advice. Be willing to be flexible on things you can be flexible on, and stay focused on what really matters. In the long run, it will strengthen your relationship with God, with the Church, and with your spouse.

Good luck, and prayers for your and your fiance.
 
I was going to write a bunch of stuff that sounded very similar to what Thomas just said. So… never mind. Just… read his thing again and pretend I said something like that. 😃

The Church’s rules always have a reason behind them. Before falling into the “rules BAD!” trap, I’d highly recommend looking into WHY the Church teaches what it does.

Congrats on your engagement, by the way. 👍
 
So what are the reason behind the rules? Why does a catholic marriage have to take place in a church? And yes - I understand there are processes that might allow it take place outside the church setting - but I am not counting on that

Like I said earlier - I understand marriage is a lifelong committment, and I am ready to commit to my wife for the rest of my life - but what difference does it make if that takes place in a church or outside in a garden? And also like I said earlier - I can have the same exact ceremony - WORD FOR WORD - outside the church that I would have inside, yet the Church will not recognize it? Why? Whats the reason for that?

I understand the church has preparation classes, etc - which I think are a good thing - but really - is that the main difference between ceremonies? Catholics take a class and everyone else just gets married?

Like it was mentioned before - the Church assumes the worse - the Church assumes that since I didn’t get married in the Church, that my marriage is flawed, that I am somehow doing something wrong, that I am marrying for the wrong reasons. I sure hope that is not the case - cause I would not want to follow a Church or God for that matter that assumes the worse out of me. Not saying I am the greatest person on the face of the earth - but I like to think I am a good person. So why does this marriage outside the church change that?
 
Why does the State say that I have to get a marriage license to be married. Does the state think that just because I don’t get a silly bit of paper that I am not in love and committed?

See how childish that sounds?
 
urwestend22 said:
So what are the reason behind the rules? Why does a catholic marriage have to take place in a church? … So why does this marriage outside the church change that?
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I would say to you no one is fully prepared for marriage, same for the first child, the change in life is too great to comprehend. So the purpose the church plays is administer the sacrament (not confer). Church laws claims all must be properly prepared for this and every sacrament. So the church sets minimum standards which it will accept for administering this sacrament. Typically 1) review of free to marry, 2) minimum waiting period (or engagement), 3) a minimum teaching or review of education on marriage. I would say to you those who skip any of that all to often have a rude awakening later when they find one or both parties married for the wrong reason. Marrying for the wrong reasons is far more common than one can imagine. However there is no assurance additional marriage preparation will find or correct the condition.

Some how it would seem you are far to reluctant to speak with the local priest, is there a problem there which hinders the marriage issue?
 
kage_ar said:
Why does the State say that I have to get a marriage license to be married. Does the state think that just because I don’t get a silly bit of paper that I am not in love and committed?

See how childish that sounds?
Click to expand...
State laws deal with taxation, next of kin for incapacitation, inheritance, etc. I would not confuse those issues with administering sacraments. For example in state laws one can be free to marry despite many failed attempts to marry, having produced many children, even having been involved is spouse battery. The state will even allow one spouse to hide that from the other spouse. Not so in the church, where the standards are very different.
 
Texas_Roofer said:
State laws deal with taxation, next of kin for incapacitation, inheritance, etc. I would not confuse those issues with administering sacraments. For example in state laws one can be free to marry despite many failed attempts to marry, having produced many children, even having been involved is spouse battery. The state will even allow one spouse to hide that from the other spouse. Not so in the church, where the standards are very different.
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Of course they are different, what the Church protects is far more important than taxes or hospital visits, it protects our immortal souls!

My point is that we all must accept the authority put over us, but State and Church.
 
I’m going to go way basic here on the reasoning for having it in the Church:
  1. Marriage is sacramental - the definition of a sacrament is that Jesus is present - OK that one may be a bit difficult to wrap your mind around but during different times in the service there are sacramental moments - not to mention to the presence of the tabernacle - you want to keep Jesus in the Church or you want to drag him out God knows where through God knows what
  2. Marriage is a community event meant to be witnessed by the Catholic community - This is not just your invited friends but the community of saints that is present when in the Church
There are a number of reasons but there are two very basic ones.
 
urwestend22 said:
So what are the reason behind the rules? Why does a catholic marriage have to take place in a church? And yes - I understand there are processes that might allow it take place outside the church setting - but I am not counting on that

Like I said earlier - I understand marriage is a lifelong committment, and I am ready to commit to my wife for the rest of my life - but what difference does it make if that takes place in a church or outside in a garden? And also like I said earlier - I can have the same exact ceremony - WORD FOR WORD - outside the church that I would have inside, yet the Church will not recognize it? Why? Whats the reason for that?

I understand the church has preparation classes, etc - which I think are a good thing - but really - is that the main difference between ceremonies? Catholics take a class and everyone else just gets married?

Like it was mentioned before - the Church assumes the worse - the Church assumes that since I didn’t get married in the Church, that my marriage is flawed, that I am somehow doing something wrong, that I am marrying for the wrong reasons. I sure hope that is not the case - cause I would not want to follow a Church or God for that matter that assumes the worse out of me. Not saying I am the greatest person on the face of the earth - but I like to think I am a good person. So why does this marriage outside the church change that?
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Oy, vey. Now I understand the priest who said he’d rather do ten funerals than a single wedding.

Why would anyone expect a sacrament of the Catholic Church to be celebrated anywhere except in a church? And, well, yes, the Church has concerns that if you marry someone outside the faith, you might be tempted to let the priority of faith in your life slip. If getting married in a church and in the Church isn’t important to you now, maybe it won’t be so important when it comes time to get those kids you have to Mass every week. It’s not judgemental. It is prudent…and more prudent now than ever before.

This isn’t about being a “good person.” It is about being a Catholic, about thinking that your life in Christ has the central place your life, and that your life in Christ is a life shared intimately with the rest of the Church. If you are baptized, you are not your own! You belong to Christ! If your life in Christ is a priority, let alone the priority, how could you blithely dispense of a sacrament in favor of your own personal set of promises, no matter how heart-felt?

Marriage is not just between you and your spouse. It is between you, your spouse, and God. That is what marriage means to a Catholic. That is what makes a marriage sacramental. Although marriages with disparity of cult are allowed if the bishop is satisfied that the Catholic will continue in the faith, as Catholics our ideal is to marry sacramentally. If putting God into the equation isn’t a priority for you, of course the Church is going to have issues with that. I’m hard-put to understand why a Catholic would think that the Church wouldn’t.
 
In my experience, you can ask 20 priests the questions the OP asked and you will get 20 different answers, half of which will point it opposite directions.
 
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