Marriage Outside the Church

[EasterJoy]

First of all no one walked out in a huff. The priests representing the Church obviously very much had an issue. I did not cut and paste to save space so I provided the link. And if you don’t believe as a Catholic and a Christian that God’s Spirit can be at an outdoor wedding, then I guess that is what you believe.

But don’t personally attack my knowledge of something that you know nothing about. As was done to me on the thread you copied from. Were any of you there? Did you know the couple? No. But right away people jump to the false assumption that somehow it is I who do not know what I am talking about. Not the priests at first. It had to be me. Fortunately I do not give you power over me. But such hurtful personal attacks do nothing to keep people within the Church. And I only pray you will someday understand this. God bless you all and peace.

You said, “I know a couple who approached a priest about marriage. He would only perfrom the ceremony if the couple paid “x” amt of dollars. Not sure of the figure but much more than what a customary donation would be for the priest’s services.” Your post gives the impression that you know about the conversative via hearsay only. That doesn’t mean you can’t be correct. It means that you weren’t there. That puts a real limit on what kind of discussion we can have about the conversation before totally descending into the realm of conjecture and gossip.

As far as not believing that God’s spirit can be at an outdoor wedding, I don’t think anyone said that. It is possible for Catholics to get permission to have outdoor weddings. We are saying that Catholics are bound to be obedient to laws concerning marriage made by those who rightfully have pastoral authority over them. If a marriage is contracted by a Catholic in disobedience to those laws, it is not valid. The Church and her authority is not a construct of man, but was instituted by Christ:
Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt. 16:16-19

You have no reason to give any of us power over you, but as a baptized Catholic, you ought to be obedient to the rightful authority of the Church, for that is obedience to Christ.

 

[joandarc2008]

When in doubt go back to the CCC:

II. THE CELEBRATION OF MARRIAGE

1621 In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ.120 In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up.121 It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but “one body” in Christ.122

1622 "Inasmuch as it is a sacramental action of sanctification, the liturgical celebration of marriage . . . must be, per se, valid, worthy, and fruitful."123 It is therefore appropriate for the bride and groom to prepare themselves for the celebration of their marriage by receiving the sacrament of penance.

1623 According to Latin tradition, the spouses, as ministers of Christ’s grace, mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent of the spouses,NT1 but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.NT2

1624 The various liturgies abound in prayers of blessing and epiclesis asking God’s grace and blessing on the new couple, especially the bride. In the epiclesis of this sacrament the spouses receive the Holy Spirit as the communion of love of Christ and the Church.124 The Holy Spirit is the seal of their covenant, the ever available source of their love and the strength to renew their fidelity.

This is the WHY in the Catholic Faith. To argue it is to say that you do not believe and that is an issue dating back to the Protestant Reformation.

 

[CMatt25]

Joan of Arc, I won’t debate who has a closed mind. I know what your Church, my Church, our Church , the Church says is a valid marriage in its eyes. (Btw that’s what I meant about “my” Church to whichever of you asked) But thanks again for your putdown. And no the Church is not BK. If I get a wrong sandwich at BK, they will admit someone AT BK screwed up. Instead of blaming it on me.

Joy, I know more than you ever will about the scenario. And yes someone did say “No God at the wedding”. Of course I know not sacramentally. But "No God at the wedding? Anyone who makes such a statement certainly has no business telling me I need “educated”. Unless you wrongly believe God is only within the 4 walls of the CC or with a dispensation and He is not with you at any other time in your lives. I have news for you. Wherever you are at this moment. God is there.with you.

I do not feel welcomed to discuss anything further about this here so I will no longer. But peace and His blessings to you during this Easter season and always. Have a most joyful, Holy Easter.

 

[agapewolf]

Unless you wrongly believe God is only within the 4 walls of the CC or with a dispensation and He is not with you at any other time in your lives. I have news for you. Wherever you are at this moment. God is there.with you.

.

You are taking the statement too literally. Those that marry outside the church, knowingly are purposely leaving God out of it… God will not push himself on people, we are free to turn away from him- therefore, “no God at the wedding”. Was he there and watching? sure…but blessing it? They didn’t want that so, no.

 

[joandarc2008]

Joan of Arc, I won’t debate who has a closed mind. I know what your Church, my Church, our Church , the Church says is a valid marriage in its eyes. (Btw that’s what I meant about “my” Church to whichever of you asked) But thanks again for your putdown. And no the Church is not BK. If I get a wrong sandwich at BK, they will admit someone AT BK screwed up. Instead of blaming it on me.

Joy, I know more than you ever will about the scenario. And yes someone did say “No God at the wedding”. Of course I know not sacramentally. But "No God at the wedding? Anyone who makes such a statement certainly has no business telling me I need “educated”. Unless you wrongly believe God is only within the 4 walls of the CC or with a dispensation and He is not with you at any other time in your lives. I have news for you. Wherever you are at this moment. God is there.with you.

I do not feel welcomed to discuss anything further about this here so I will no longer. But peace and His blessings to you during this Easter season and always. Have a most joyful, Holy Easter.

Again I did not say no God at the wedding - I said it would not be sacramental meaning God would not be a part of it as it is not done sacramentally through Apostolic succession and I have a very open mind to many things - just go ahead and read other threads. The problem here is that you do not understand the very basis of the Church views. And I don’t believe I have made ownership on the Church but if I have for that I do greatly apologize to Christ for it is not mine it is His. It is whether Christ is physically present or spiritually present that is the discussion. I can’t see anyone bringing Eucharist to a wedding that has not been deemed valid - hence having Christ phyically present as opposed to spiritually present.

 

[kage_ar]

Joy, I know more than you ever will about the scenario. And yes someone did say “No God at the wedding”. Of course I know not sacramentally. But "No God at the wedding? Anyone who makes such a statement certainly has no business telling me I need “educated”. Unless you wrongly believe God is only within the 4 walls of the CC or with a dispensation and He is not with you at any other time in your lives. I have news for you. Wherever you are at this moment. God is there.with you.

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Scripture assures us that God is everywhere, heck, that means God is in the brothel and the Nazi gas chambers, that does not mean that I should choose to be there.