Married and celibate

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AKAJohn

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Hi everyone, my first post. Not sure if this is place for this but I thought I would try. I will try to make this short, we have four children, the last recently. After the first three we went eight years on NFP method until God gave us a fourth, quite by suprise. We love the child and feel blessed, but it has been a tremendous struggle for my wife, we are older, in our forties and the burden for her has been tremendous. I will not go into details, but she is an emotional mess and many times in tears by the time I get home from work.

Rightly or wrongly, she is absolutely certain that she wants no more children. Since NFP has not worked for us, she has decided that we will no longer be intimate. This means no contact at all other than an occasional hug, she is very beautiful and it doesn’t take much to stir the fire.

It’s been almost a year without any kind of intimacy and, I’m really really struggling with this. I realize this is the only way to fulfill Church teachings and do not need to discuss theology of the body.

Nonetheless, I feel very angry at times, like I’ve been denied closeness with my wife. Making love to her was so powerful and beautiful. Now, I have nothing more than fading memories of what that was like. Unfortunately, my weak state has allowed my old demons to return. Things that have been out of my life for years. Pornography, lust for other women, and well the M word. I need confession more than ever to fight all of this.

Maybe this is just a transformation for me to become better and holier person, but right now, I feel that I simply cannot carry on this way much longer, that I’m on some kind of downward spiral.
 
NFP, Natural Family Planning.

AKAJohn, I’ll keep you in my prayers. :signofcross:
 
Could she be suffering from Post-partum depression? Or plain old garden variety depression? Maybe talking to a therapist or getting on an anti-depressant will help.

Peace,
Linda, LPC
 
Didn’t work? Y’all went 8 years between babies so it must have worked.

Was sex something your wife enjoyed prior to this last baby?
Since NFP has not worked for us, she has decided that we will no longer be intimate
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Don’t ya reckon she might oughta check with you before making this call?

There are somedays when it is virtually impossible for her to get pregnant, why not on those days? We all know what days they are, so see what she says.

If she denies even those couple days, then might be other issues in play here, that would be above my pay grade to sort out. Just as for Divine help.

But I’m like this, it takes a lot of the fun out of it when she goes along with it out of a sense of duty,
 
John,

Would your wife be open to looking at the Marquette Model of NFP? In addition to fertility signs you also use a fertility monitor and can p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation. You could then use the post-ovulation phase for intimacy.

Several people on this board have started using Marquette and just rave about how precise it is with the fertility monitor.
 
1ke said:
John,

Would your wife be open to looking at the Marquette Model of NFP? In addition to fertility signs you also use a fertility monitor and can p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation. You could then use the post-ovulation phase for intimacy.

Several people on this board have started using Marquette and just rave about how precise it is with the fertility monitor.
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really? I’d be interested in this, too. Thank 1ke.:o
 
nfp.marquette.edu/

above is the link for the Marquette Model, through Marquette University’s NFP Institute.

It does offer protocols for just about every situation and has medical professionals who are available to help you if you need it ever. There is also an online forum available to ask questions or read over other users questions.
 
I second the ovulation monitor thing! If she is willing, you can purchase ovulation predictor tests online in bulk~I have some that a wonderful poster here on CAF passed on to me and I test every day~sometimes twice!!(We are praying for another baby)

Get to confession as soon as possible~that will give you strength to reason with you wife. The married couples are not “designed” to be celebate! How about you and your wife speaking to a priest or a NFP councelor?

Also, it was mentioned already, could she having depression? Since you mentioned that yall were the 40’s she could even maybe starting premenopause (she could speak to her dr).

Talk to your wife (in case you havent!) and deal with this as a couple. I am sure she will be relieved to have you support on working towards a solution.
God Bless!
 
John,

Have you tried writing her a letter telling her what you just told us? I sit here and read your post and think, I’d be heartbroken if my husband ever felt that way. It would definitely make me want to find ways to be close to him, EVEN if I felt there was no way on God’s green earth I could risk a pregnancy at the moment. There are still ways to be affectionate and not feel so alienated from each other, even when sex is out of the question.

Just given what you have told us about the strength of her feelings regarding getting pregnant again, I doubt she will be very receptive to ANY kind of birth control (besides abstinence, the most effective method ever invented 😉 ) talk from you right now…and talk of another NFP method right now, when she feels that her last pregnancy was the direct result of “failure” of that method, may very well alienate her more. It’s quite apparent she is willing to put her money where her mouth is on the issue of not getting pregnant again and isn’t afraid of using the one sure method (barring complete hysterectomy) of avoiding it.

Have you asked her about counseling? Speaking to a good priest/Catholic counselor may help her deal with her fears of pregnancy and help you find ways of dealing with her fears. Also, it’s possible that her fears and reticence about sex are based in something much deeper even than fear of pregnancy, and a good counselor could help get to the root of that kind of thing.

Maybe none of this applies to you and your wife, and if so, I’m sorry for wasting your time. I was just struck reading your post how very sad that would make me feel as a wife.

Prayers,
Lauren
 
Thank you everyone for all of your heartfelt posts and suggestions. Sorry I’m not able to respond right away.

I do think she is experiencing some post partum right now. Since she is breast feeding, no way will she take any kind of medication.

The pregnancy was difficult for her, she suffered greatly. I do not wish to go into great detail. She also can no longer go to daily mass or bible study because of the difficulty of getting the baby ready on time. So that is piling on as well for her emotionally.

I do like the idea of trying the Marquette Model of NFP. I think this may be something big. I will just have to wait a while until the baby is older and she is adjusting better, before bringing up the subject again. I know she feels just as bad as I do. She enjoys intimacy, multiple times if you know what I mean, so I know it is not some disfunctional hangup on her part. Timing is everything, if I lay out how I feel right now, I think it would really be that much harder for her.

She has a spiritual director and a very good one. I don’t really feel that much consoling or directing would help. The Church teaching is quite clear and not up for debate.

So, my only hope is that, after things quite down, she would consider other NFP methods, and not continue on the current path. I’m not looking for twice daily encounters, just once a month would be fantastic. I really have no recourse, you simply cannot force your will on someone.

Thanks again everyone. I want to mention that I have read many posts on this board, and I’m really blown away at how great a place this is to discuss all things Catholic. Could you imagine me talking to my “mass is for Christmas” Catholic family that my wife has cut me off to avoid sin? Ha.
 
AKAJohn said:
Hi everyone, my first post. Not sure if this is place for this but I thought I would try. I will try to make this short, we have four children, the last recently. After the first three we went eight years on NFP method until God gave us a fourth, quite by suprise. We love the child and feel blessed, but it has been a tremendous struggle for my wife, we are older, in our forties and the burden for her has been tremendous. I will not go into details, but she is an emotional mess and many times in tears by the time I get home from work.

Rightly or wrongly, she is absolutely certain that she wants no more children. Since NFP has not worked for us, she has decided that we will no longer be intimate. This means no contact at all other than an occasional hug, she is very beautiful and it doesn’t take much to stir the fire.

It’s been almost a year without any kind of intimacy and, I’m really really struggling with this. I realize this is the only way to fulfill Church teachings and do not need to discuss theology of the body.

Nonetheless, I feel very angry at times, like I’ve been denied closeness with my wife. Making love to her was so powerful and beautiful. Now, I have nothing more than fading memories of what that was like. Unfortunately, my weak state has allowed my old demons to return. Things that have been out of my life for years. Pornography, lust for other women, and well the M word. I need confession more than ever to fight all of this.

Maybe this is just a transformation for me to become better and holier person, but right now, I feel that I simply cannot carry on this way much longer, that I’m on some kind of downward spiral.
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Man… This is the single biggest problem I have with church teaching. I would never question the church’s decision, but I absolutely cannot understand why it’s wrong for an older married couple who has a number of children already cannot take preventative measures.

I would suggest that there is a VERY real possibility that your new struggle with masturbation is loaded with mitigating cicumstances and therefore would likely be considered a “venial” sin. But don’t take my word for it. Check with your priest.

If you’re smart, you will aviod pornography like the plague. Keep the masturbation separate from that garbage. If you don’t, your mind and soul will rot like a pile of fish on a 90 degree day!

Practice extreme charity and generosity toward your precious wife. She is bearing just as heavy of a cross taking care of young children in her 40s. I really don’t know if the church would expect you to remain celibate. Talk to the priest about your degree of culpability regarding your “self-relief” situation but if masturbation keeps you OUT of the strip clubs or “straying” with another woman… so be it!

Again, get thee to a priest immediately… and stay completely away from the porn!

Prayer… frequent confession and becoming the most generous, helpful and loving husband you can be will put you at peace during this. I’ve been around the block a time or or two myself as a catholic man approaching the age of 50.
😉

Good luck my friend. I feel for ya brother!

:cool:
 
Thanks, TLM08 for the support. A lot of my “self relief” I think is more from lashing out at my situation, than an actual need. I have a lot of self control and know if I pray hard and really avoid any temptation, I can get things under control.

I will seek out a good priest and ask for help.
 
My prayers to you and your wife, john. I echo what everyone else said, so don’t have anything new to add. Just feel for you, that’s all. Seek God in all things, as He is present to hear you, and help you. God bless.
 
AKAJohn said:
I do think she is experiencing some post partum right now. Since she is breast feeding, no way will she take any kind of medication.
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There are several medications that the FDA considers safe for treating depression in nursing women, if you think she might be receptive to the idea of depression/medication.

I don’t have much else to offer on the subject at hand. I pray that you can get through this difficult time.

MJ
 
TLM08 said:
Man… This is the single biggest problem I have with church teaching. I would never question the church’s decision, but I absolutely cannot understand why it’s wrong for an older married couple who has a number of children already cannot take preventative measures.
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I’m glad you said this as this is exactly how I feel. I don’t know about the church, but when I think of God himself looking down on a situation…I dunno. A happy couple happily raising their children and loving each other without worrying about having another baby they don’t feel equipped to handle? Or a stressed out celibate couple resorting to sinful means of relieving what is a a completely normal and natural desire that is supposed to be fulfilled through their marriage but which they are unable to fulfill for fear of another pregnancy? Hmmm…

As for the depression issue…this is where your support and HELP are so necessary. Are you doing your part, or is she carrying the burden of raising the children mostly on her own? Do you come home from work and give her some time to herself? Do you make sure she is able to get to Mass, confession, Bible Study if she needs to? It’s so important that you as the father and her partner step up and listen to her needs and do everything in your power to give her support and love…and time away from the babies now and then. 😉
 
AKAJohn said:
I do think she is experiencing some post partum right now. Since she is breast feeding, no way will she take any kind of medication.

The pregnancy was difficult for her, she suffered greatly. I do not wish to go into great detail. She also can no longer go to daily mass or bible study because of the difficulty of getting the baby ready on time. So that is piling on as well for her emotionally.

.
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I know she is feeling pulled in a lot of directions and that she is unable to participate in many things. Perhaps it might help to suggest a support system that can help her, that is breastfeeding (they can help with what meds are ok during bfing) & child friendly, that may be able to give her support in other ways too. If she is open to it, you might suggest the La Leche League. She doesn’t have to attend meetings to get support, many leaders are open to talking on the phone, by email, or coming over.llli.org/

You might also see if the local hospital offers in mom support groups, some now offer them for moms who already have kids (not just 1st time mommas).

Prayers for both you :gopray2:
 
AKAJohn, I have to say that I think there is something more going on, whether it be post partum depression or something else.

I would ask her why, if she does indeed want to be intimate before menopause, she hasn’t found a way. I mean, there are days that have pretty much zero chance in resulting in pregnancy. The fact that she is not thinking in this direction might mean there are other things for you guys to talk about.
 
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