Married gay man denied communion at mother's funeral in Amite 'very surprising,' official says

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Because it shows how Catholics “discriminate” against gays and lesbians and that Catholics are “bigots”.
Wow, sounds like you have sure drank the gay lobby Kool-Aid! Does the church then discriminate against all sinners because it tells them they can’t receive communion unless they are in a state of grace? Did Jesus discriminate against the Scribes and Pharisees by pointing out their hypocrisy? There’s a big difference between being gay, and living the so called gay lifestyle.
 
The connection may be that the Archbishop of New Orleans is the metropolitan Bishop who has jurisdiction over the Diocese of Baton Rouge. I pray that an apology never occurred as it would bring scandal.
Hello,

He doesn’t have “jurisdiction” except in very limited circumstances and only to do a few things (see canon 436). In the case at hand, I don’t see how he would have had any jurisdiction.

Dan
 
Catholics living in the state of mortal sin commit another mortal sin by receiving communion in the state of mortal sin. If anyone should apologize it should be whoever is participating in a so called “same-sex marriage”. And they should apologize to Our Lord.
 
ISTM that the situation was manipulated to “gin-up” sympathy within the Church setting, as was done so effectively in the civil sphere.

Who wouldn’t feel for someone in this bereavement situation? The feeling response would be to set aside the gay issue and do what would comfort the person.

But regardless of one’s feelings of sympathy, ignoring unrepented sin is not the loving thing to do.

ICXC NIKA
 
Wow, sounds like you have sure drank the gay lobby Kool-Aid! Does the church then discriminate against all sinners because it tells them they can’t receive communion unless they are in a state of grace? Did Jesus discriminate against the Scribes and Pharisees by pointing out their hypocrisy? There’s a big difference between being gay, and living the so called gay lifestyle.
If you look closer at E1F5As quote you will notice he has both bigot and discriminate in quotes so I doubt he believes that it actually is discrimination or drinking the Kool-aid. I believe he was trying to say the secualr media will try to use this situation to give the appearance of bigotry and discrimination (not that he agrees with it).
 
If you look closer at E1F5As quote you will notice he has both bigot and discriminate in quotes so I doubt he believes that it actually is discrimination or drinking the Kool-aid. I believe he was trying to say the secualr media will try to use this situation to give the appearance of bigotry and discrimination (not that he agrees with it).
Well, to be fair, I did at one point drink the gay lobby koolaid. (I even voted for Obama…twice. :eek: I’m going to blame my youthful ignorance.)

I’m hopeful that the secular media only hates what they perceive about the Church. But perception is everything, and somehow we need to correct it.
 
Our parish priest used to begin Mass by asking that only “Catholics in accord with Church teaching and Anglicans of the Catholic persuasion” come to communion, and even that is problematic in itself because of the nature of what an Anglican of the Catholic persuasion is, and that we do not have an “open-altar” policy when it comes to taking Communion.

You’d think the offended man would have sense enough to know the position of the Church, and have sense enough to understand that his attempt to use this incident as a vendetta against the Church - as seems to be the daily mantra of news publications - will fail, because the Church is clear and a simple Google search can give any layman the teaching of the Church. Anyone, anyone, who sins and has not yet confessed it is barred from the reception from Holy Communion.

What we should do is pray for the man and his family and for the priest and that parish, and the repose of the soul of his obviously devout mother. What a misanthropic way to look at Communion we have these days - I will go if I want to because I am ME and I am important and God loves ME.

Of course he does, but WE don’t love HIM when we sin and live in open opposition to Him. We owe a great debt that we cannot pay off, because God loves us so greatly and unconditionally and we abuse that love and here we are in another controversy because the media is so ignorant as to paint the canvas without a steady brush.
 
I think it would help at every Sunday Mass the priest should give guidelines on your state of worthiness to receive Communion. I think many are in ignorance of this! He should tell them if anyone is in the state of mortal sin, they need Confession first. Rather than emphasizing those in a SSS marriage, **he should say this includes people in irregular relationships outside of marriage siuch as living together, divorced and remarried people unless they’ve been annulled. Then he should encourage all single people to be chaste in their relationships and then comment that if they aren’t they also could be living in sin. ** I know this is a lot of info. Maybe it could be posted somewhere at the Church doors but emphasize all are welcome, as we are all part of Christs body.
Not only is it a lot of information, but why would only include sexual sins?

Why not stealing?

Lying?

Greed?

Pride?

Or any other serious sin? 🤷
 
Not only is it a lot of information, but why would only include sexual sins?

Why not stealing?

Lying?

Greed?

Pride?

Or any other serious sin? 🤷
I think sexual sins are more prevalent than mortal sins of lying, greed, or pride. We might get thoughts of greed or pride here and there, and we might tell a little lie, but does it rise to the level of mortal sin?
 
Not only is it a lot of information, but why would only include sexual sins?

Why not stealing?
Lying?
Greed?
Pride?
Or any other serious sin? 🤷
It is not about sexual sins, it is about public, unrepentant sins, or as Canon 915 puts it: those “*obstinately persevering in **manifest *grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.” Since instances of theft, lying, greed, and pride are virtually always private the sins you cited would not cause the minister to refuse communion. According to Canon 916 the individual would bear the whole responsibility not to present himself. Since the gentleman in this case failed to meet his obligations as laid out in Canon 916 it was therefore left to the priest to fulfill his obligation under Canon 915. Thankfully, that is exactly what he did.

Ender
 

My friends and I have been debating the incident detailed in the article below, the priest refusing the Eucharist to the man, and the response of the bishop’s office. I would love to get some more (name removed by moderator)ut into this subject, and what the appropriate response (other than prayer) should be from the Bishops, priests, and the laity as these incidences will only increase.

theneworleansadvocate.com/news/12939016-32/gay-man-denied-communion-at
At my MIL funeral, two of my husband’s brothers (one who is gay), the priest announced before the funeral mass that those who were no longer in full communion with the church could come up for a blessing. Personally, I think that is how it should always be.

Sorry, I didn’t read the other posts.
 
This has nothing to do with the demands of secularists. It’s a matter of common sense and charity. The pastor obviously knew that the son of the deceased was married and could have taken him aside before the service and explained that he would not let him have the Eucharist. It’s quite obvious that this was a political statement that failed - yes, the pastor made his statement, but it has backfired on him. It was cruel.:mad:
How was the priest supposed to know the man would show himself up for Holy Communion. The man knew he wasn’t supposed to, but he was just defying the Church and forcing the situation. I give the priest credit for defending Our Lord and the man’s soul, even if the man couldn’t care less about his own soul. It really hasn’t backfired on the priest but I will give you one guess on who this really will “backfire” on !! God Bless, Memaw
 
I think sexual sins are more prevalent than mortal sins of lying, greed, or pride. We might get thoughts of greed or pride here and there, and we might tell a little lie, but does it rise to the level of mortal sin?
You must not be paying attention. And I don’t mean that in a mean way.

I see sins of greed and pride, pretty much, every day.
It is not about sexual sins, it is about public, unrepentant sins, or as Canon 915 puts it: those “*obstinately persevering in **manifest ***grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion.” Since instances of theft, lying, greed, and pride are virtually always private the sins you cited would not cause the minister to refuse communion. According to Canon 916 the individual would bear the whole responsibility not to present himself. Since the gentleman in this case failed to meet his obligations as laid out in Canon 916 it was therefore left to the priest to fulfill his obligation under Canon 915. Thankfully, that is exactly what he did.

Ender
Okay, so why would a boyfriend and girlfriend sleeping together, be a cause to announce it before Mass?

Remember the post that I quoted
he should say this includes people in irregular relationships outside of marriage siuch as living together, divorced and remarried people unless they’ve been annulled. Then he should encourage all single people to be chaste in their relationships and then comment that if they aren’t they also could be living in sin.
Of course having sexual relations before you are married is a sin, but it isn’t, as you say, a public sin.

Same with someone that is divorced and remarried. How many people know that they are divorced? Without an annulment?

The poster only listed sexual sins. Not public sins. There is a different.
 
According to this article, he was defrocked for intimidating behavior toward parish staff and others.

I was not there at this funeral. But if the priest made the point across (no communion for active gays and lesbians) in a compassionate manner, would all of this have been prevented?
Guarnizo has never been “defrocked”.

First, he was placed on administrative leave. Second, “defrocked” has no meaning in the Catholic Church, it is an atheist derogatory term. The canonical term is “laicized” and Guarnizo most assuredly was not.
 
You’d think the offended man would have sense enough to know the position of the Church, and have sense enough to understand that his attempt to use this incident as a vendetta against the Church - as seems to be the daily mantra of news publications - will fail, because the Church is clear and a simple Google search can give any layman the teaching of the Church. Anyone, anyone, who sins and has not yet confessed it is barred from the reception from Holy Communion.
Well, you might think that, but you might be wrong. I’m not sure how old this son was, but if he was anything like my age (which he might well be, having a young son), he may not have received much catechesis as a child. I don’t think even the fact that he was an altar boy is a guarantee that he would have known how serious it is to receive in a state of mortal sin.

I myself, when I was away from the Church would have gone up to receive if I happened to be at Mass, even though I was married outside of the Church and had not attended Mass in years. It would have been seriously wrong, but like a lot of lapsed Catholics, I would have thought of it as “no big deal.” (OTOH, I wouldn’t have made a huge hullabaloo about it even if it had been at a parent’s funeral, and I never had the weird theology that thought “He expected that receiving communion would be an “intimate, intimate experience” because his mother is with the Holy Spirit, and he could connect with her through participation in the Eucharist.” (from the article))

But the priest may not have said anything before the Mass because it simply never occurred to him that a man who had not attended Mass in years, and also was living in a public state of sin, would present himself for the Eucharist. And that was an error in judgement, but not necessarily a purposeful sin against charity.

It seems to me that in the same way that it is a pity that the priest never thought to mention it before Mass, it is a pity that the son decided to tell the newspapers instead of likewise handling the issue privately.

Like many others, I also have some problems with the Church spokesmen mentioned in the article. They seem to think that because you can’t know the state of soul of everyone in line, you shouldn’t refuse communion to anyone. That’s like saying that just because you can’t know who at a party has a peanut allergy, you shouldn’t hold back from giving peanut butter cookies to even those you do know about.

I particularly have a problem with this part:
Diocese spokeswoman Donna Carville, a Eucharistic minister, said the diocese does not condone denial of communion to Catholics just because they are gay.
“That’s very surprising that he was denied communion. That just doesn’t happen. … We don’t deny people communion,” she said. “Who are we to judge whether they believe (the church’s teachings on the communion) or not? It’s between you and God.”
Being married outside the church should not be used to deny someone the Eucharist, said the Rev. Roger Keeler, executive coordinator of the Canon Law Society of America.
For the spokeswoman, I have to hope she was just misquoted. First, as someone has already pointed out, she is not a “Eucharistic minister,” she is an “Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion.” If that’s too long to say, they should have just left it out, since whether she is an EMHC or not is irrelevant here, just that she is a diocesan spokeswoman. Second, nobody was trying to judge what anyone believed. What a strawman! She is implying that belief is the only thing required to be properly disposed to receive. He wasn’t denied the Eucharist because the priest had incorrect ideas about what went on in the man’s head, but because the priest had correct ideas about what publicly continues to go on in the man’s life.

As for the Canon Lawyer, I would really like to know the “why” of his statement. And whether the marriage outside the Church being public and obvious would make a difference. It would really cause scandal in the most complete sense to give the Eucharist to that man, because there were other gay people in the church for the funeral, and it would have told them that even being “married” to a same-sex partner isn’t really a mortal sin, or that mortal sin shouldn’t prevent you from going up to receive the Eucharist. That really could be a direct cause for them to sin in the future.

In addition, personally, to any statement a priest was going to make about being properly disposed to receive, I would very much like to add something along the lines of, “If you are a baptized Catholic, and you have not been to Confession since the last time you missed Mass on a Sunday or Holy Day, please don’t present yourself for Communion.” Whch should have been enough to keep the man in his seat without having to do with sex at all.

–Jen
 
This whole scenario leaves me shaking my head. I find it astonishing that in this day and age, with all the publicity on gay marriage, and the Church’s stance against it, that we have so MANY incidents like this happening. *Really? *

Are there really any openly gay, living-in-sin, publicly “married” gay people that are truly ignorant of how the Catholic Church feels about this issue? Really??? Have they been living under a rock with no access to the outside world?

This man publicizes his gay marriage in the obituary, is sitting in the pew with his “husband” (who knows how they were comporting themselves as they sat there, they may have been flaunting it, who knows?) He hasn’t been to Mass in ages, but he’s a former altar boy, so he must know something about Catholic beliefs. He’s openly, publicly living in sin, having sex with another man, in a state of mortal sin, an apostate for not attending mass (another mortal sin) and he thinks he and his “husband” can just waltz up to the priest and get the Body of Christ? And he is shocked that the priest says “no?” I say “good for the priest.”

The same goes for the blind, deaf and dumb gay Catholic school teachers who sign a contract promising to do nothing scandalous, and to uphold Catholic beliefs, who then get publicly “married” and then profess shock when they get fired, like they never could have imagined their employer could possibly be displeased with them! These people are playing stupid, and not very convincingly. Have they no shame? I guess not.
 
"Diocese spokeswoman Donna Carville, a Eucharistic minister, said the diocese does not condone denial of communion to Catholics just because they are gay.
‘That’s very surprising that he was denied communion. That just doesn’t happen. … We don’t deny people communion,’ she said. 'Who are we to judge whether they believe (the church’s teachings on the communion) or not? It’s between you and God.’"
I like how this diocesan spokeswoman is attempting to channel Pope Francis. (See bolded portion)

I wonder if the bishop condones her viewpoint?
 
Not only is it a lot of information, but why would only include sexual sins?

Why not stealing?

Lying?

Greed?

Pride?

Or any other serious sin? 🤷
Well that is the thing, All these sins if they constitute an actual mortal sin then the person is not to present himself for communion. If he does so before reconciliation then he eats and drinks damnation upon himself. This in itself is a mortal sin.

With these sins however how would the preist know that a person is in a state of mortal sin. It just doesn’t happen this way.

The Presit did what was correct under the circumstances.

Peace!👍
 
Of course having sexual relations before you are married is a sin, but it isn’t, as you say, a public sin.
It is the public and persistent nature of the sin that triggers Canon 915.
Same with someone that is divorced and remarried. How many people know that they are divorced? Without an annulment?
The son’s situation is no different from that of anyone else living in an irregular arrangement. The divorced and remarried (without an annulment) are not to receive communion either. They are not to present themselves for communion under Canon 916. Canon 915 only applies if their arrangement is public, but be clear about the obligation: 916 applies to the individual appearing for communion while 915 applies to the individual giving communion.

Ender
 
I think it would be wise for you to discuss this with your priest.

The Marian shrine and basilica I often attend has an announcement before Holy Communion as to who can and cannot receive for those who do not notice the inserts on canon law.
We don’t live near each other, so talking to my priest does no good. I’ve tried telling them, but they appearently don’t think I know what I’m talking about 🤷
 
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