Married men and women as friends

[thewanderer]

Some parishes are more “huggy” than others.

When I’m in a place where the fellows hug each other with at least as much gusto as they hug the women, OK. That’s a huggy parish, fine, as long as the non-huggers aren’t marginalized for actually maintaining their right to have an inviolate personal space without being treated as a cold fish. Forcing shy or reserved people into mandatory hugging is not cool.

Where the fellows seem to be more intent on hugging their sisters in Christ than their brethren, my thinking is “greet each other with a holy kiss…yeah, right.” There are guys who use the hug-friendly zone of church as carte blanche, that is all there is to it. I have heard enough guys talking when they think there are no women around; I know how it goes. Some “struggle” to maintain pure thoughts towards the holy women around them; some, though, not so much.

In the community I am from guys always hug women, women always hug women, and guys always shake each others hands. Its not because the guys are out to feel up the women, its because they feel weird hugging each other because hugging is a “woman’s” thing… I really get that some guys are jerks who are out looking to exploit women however they can, but are you seriously claiming that the only reason a man would hug a woman while giving a handshake to a man is because he is out to feel up women? Or that as a married woman I should refuse to greet any of the men in my community of friends with a friendly hug because one of them might fall into that jerk category?

 

[Evania]

The first piece of dating advice I ever received was when I was 13 from my brother. He told me that if I ever dated someone who always accused me of cheating I should leave him, because chances are he himself was, or at least would, cheat.

His “all men are evil” attitude makes me think that it’s more a reflection of his own private attitudes.

And before EJ jumps on this post I would like to clarify that no one is saying that this situation couldn’t be a potential problem. What we’re saying is that given the evidence there is no reason to think that he’s “poaching” the OPs wife.

Your brother is very wise.

 

[thewanderer]

You and the others who share your view have developed a notion that the OP is somehow deficient and therefore you frame his every concern in that light. As EJ indicated, just because an overprotective person rightly points outs an obvious danger, or even a precondition to danger, does not make that person’s observations invalid.

The point that the ‘men and women as friends’ crowd ignores is that while the interaction between can in many cases be explained away as perfectly platonic on its face - even legitimately - it invites undue risk into the marital relationship. Indeed when you place boundaries on male-female relationships for the sake of the marital one, you are unequivocally acknowledging that there is something patently and immutably different between a man-man or woman-woman friendship than one between a man and a woman. A married person who tries to maintain a ‘friendship’ with a person of the opposite sex in a manner anything like what most people realize as true friendship (san strictures realted to spedning time alone together, etc.) is inviting trouble to his/her marriage.

EJ also makes a great point about people not being really wild about heaering when boundaries are being crossed - even ones they agreed to.

I really don’t think anybody is saying there is no chance that this man has bad intentions towards the OP’s wife. Rather, people are coming at this from different perspectives, some are more focused on the fact that this hobbyist could be a problem while others are more focused on the fact that the OP seems overly cautious and jealous as a whole and the fact that this could both damage his marriage and affect the way he views the present situation. Both are important things to be aware of. Also the fact that there is no set correct boundary line for married people. It is something each couple needs to come to a decision on together and it will be different for each couple.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

Lot’s of ‘supposing’ going on here… As a happily married woman with a happily married husband, I can say that neither of us would accept a gift, especially an expensive ‘used’ one from a third party. My husband’s needs and feelings come first with me, period. What the third party may or may not be thinking, or trying to do is irrelevant. Talk with your wife about this and between the two of you, come up with a solution that works for both of you. Your love will see you through this, stop agonizing and start talking. God bless you.

 

[EasterJoy]

In the community I am from guys always hug women, women always hug women, and guys always shake each others hands. Its not because the guys are out to feel up the women, its because they feel weird hugging each other because hugging is a “woman’s” thing… I really get that some guys are jerks who are out looking to exploit women however they can, but are you seriously claiming that the only reason a man would hug a woman while giving a handshake to a man is because he is out to feel up women? Or that as a married woman I should refuse to greet any of the men in my community of friends with a friendly hug because one of them might fall into that jerk category?

The OP is not even saying that the only reason a man would hug a woman is because he is out to feel up women. The contention is that some do, and not just the guys that literally have adultery on their minds.

Men tell me that the enjoyment of hugging a woman because she is a woman is one of the reasons that men *do *seek out women to hug instead of other men, that it is not just the occasional obvious pervert or bounder who does it, that it isn’t an accident that the more physically attractive women seem to get more of this attention, either, and that even decent men can’t help but noticing that hugging a woman has this tendency to bring up sexual thoughts about her in a way that less physical ways of greeting her do not.

Are you saying I’m not supposed to believe them?

It is also true that women who are hugged by men can have feelings aroused that they would not have guessed they would feel. When a woman hugs a man it is not the same as hugging another woman, not if he is a man and not a child, and this is true even if the intentions are meant to be pure. That is just the truth. It is such an obvious truth that I wonder why there is so much energy put into denying that it is true.

Does that mean that I think that opposite-sex friends should never hug? It does not. It means that I believe there ought to be an awareness that feelings can be stirred up that way, even when there is no such intention. It is not unreasonable that anyone, man or woman, not like the idea of anyone else having those feelings stirred up concerning their spouse. Those persons may just have to live with the societal condition that opposite-sex friends are probably going to hug each other now and again in our day and age, but they shouldn’t be treated as if feeling that jealousy amounts to some kind of a lunacy. That is not only unrealistic, but grossly unfair.

 

[hurting]

I really don’t think anybody is saying there is no chance that this man has bad intentions towards the OP’s wife. Rather, people are coming at this from different perspectives, some are more focused on the fact that this hobbyist could be a problem while others are more focused on the fact that the OP seems overly cautious and jealous as a whole and the fact that this could both damage his marriage and affect the way he views the present situation. Both are important things to be aware of. Also the fact that there is no set correct boundary line for married people. It is something each couple needs to come to a decision on together and it will be different for each couple.

Sorry if I was not clear, but in my estimation, the friend’s intentions are not the crucial issue at play in this particular circumstance or in general. Whether or not this guy (or any hypothetical opposite sex ‘friend’ of a married person) is actively seeking to disrupt the marriage is not as important as erecting the proper safeguards that would prevent heartbreak regardless of intent.

I would disagree that ‘there is no set boundary line’ for married people insofar as there are rules that any coulple who values their relationship should follow. Past generations understood these common sense rules.

 

[hurting]

OK…back up. Look at the posts, like #7:

"He might not have nefarious intentions towards my wife, in fact I don’t think he does.

I suspect he’s in some sort of competition with me…I feel like I’m being outsourced!"

and

“Really, what this comes down to is what is acceptable in a friendship between two people of the opposite sex who are married.”

Do you see that he does not oppose the idea that married women can legitimately have male friends? The fellow in question is not a friend of the family, but a co-worker who is showing the wife a lot of attention by doing things that the husband would normally do for her. The husband is uncomfortable with it. I’m not surprised and I surely don’t think his discomfort bodes badly for the future of his marriage. He’s reacting as many spouses would.

I think if a woman were posting here that a woman at her husband’s work was doing things for her husband that happened to be those same things that the wife normally did to show her affection for him, we’d be more understanding of how she might have her feelings hurt, and that this co-worker is crossing a line better left uncrossed. We’d want the husband to quit letting this woman exercise “one-upmanship” aimed at making herself look good at his wife’s expense, but would expect him to prefer his wife and ask the co-worker to cool it.

There is also a lot of opinions that are based on other sentiments the OP has expressed in other threads. There is a saying in medicine: People with mental illnesses still get sick, sometimes. Just because you think he is being irrational on other threads is not a reason to carry that over to this thread.

Or maybe his wife is demonstrating a pattern of behavior, perhaps even unintentionally, that invites the incursions the OP dislikes (and has a least some standing to legitimately do so). It is quite interesting that while many on this thread are eager to point out that there may be problems with the OP, none to my recollection have suggested that the wife may bear any culpability.

I concur with your premise (in highlights above) that there is definitely a double standard at play in this thread as well as many others.

 

[maryjk]

Or maybe his wife is demonstrating a pattern of behavior, perhaps even unintentionally, that invites the incursions the OP dislikes (and has a least some standing to legitimately do so).** It is quite interesting that while many on this thread are eager to point out that there may be problems with the OP,** none to my recollection have suggested that the wife may bear any culpability.

I concur with your premise (in highlights above) that there is definitely a double standard at play in this thread as well as many others.

That is because we have read other threads that the OP has started.

Yes, there is a pattern of behavior. But it is being demonstrated by the husband. NOT the wife.

You might want to read through his “hug” thread.

 

[thewanderer]

The OP is not even saying that the only reason a man would hug a woman is because he is out to feel up women. The contention is that some do, and not just the guys that literally have adultery on their minds.

Men tell me that the enjoyment of hugging a woman because she is a woman is one of the reasons that men *do *seek out women to hug instead of other men, that it is not just the occasional obvious pervert or bounder who does it, that it isn’t an accident that the more physically attractive women seem to get more of this attention, either, and that even decent men can’t help but noticing that hugging a woman has this tendency to bring up sexual thoughts about her in a way that less physical ways of greeting her do not.

Are you saying I’m not supposed to believe them?

It is also true that women who are hugged by men can have feelings aroused that they would not have guessed they would feel. When a woman hugs a man it is not the same as hugging another woman, not if he is a man and not a child, and this is true even if the intentions are meant to be pure. That is just the truth. It is such an obvious truth that I wonder why there is so much energy put into denying that it is true.

Does that mean that I think that opposite-sex friends should never hug? It does not. It means that I believe there ought to be an awareness that feelings can be stirred up that way, even when there is no such intention. It is not unreasonable that anyone, man or woman, not like the idea of anyone else having those feelings stirred up concerning their spouse. Those persons may just have to live with the societal condition that opposite-sex friends are probably going to hug each other now and again in our day and age, but they shouldn’t be treated as if feeling that jealousy amounts to some kind of a lunacy. That is not only unrealistic, but grossly unfair.

I’m sorry if I misread you. I am not asking you to doubt what you’ve been told, though I do still question just how reliable a claim it is, and I think it might be interesting to have a poll here on CAF to find out what the men here have to say about it. What I can say is that I have not at all experienced the men in my community of friends hugging the really attractive women any more than the rest of us. It is how we greet each other and say goodbye and every person greets everybody else, so perhaps that is why I have a harder time assuming that most of these guys are out to be aroused by hugging attractive women.

 

[thewanderer]

Sorry if I was not clear, but in my estimation, the friend’s intentions are not the crucial issue at play in this particular circumstance or in general. Whether or not this guy (or any hypothetical opposite sex ‘friend’ of a married person) is actively seeking to disrupt the marriage is not as important as erecting the proper safeguards that would prevent heartbreak regardless of intent.

I would disagree that ‘there is no set boundary line’ for married people insofar as there are rules that any coulple who values their relationship should follow. Past generations understood these common sense rules.

And what exactly are these set-line boundaries? I can definitely see that if a relationship becomes toxic or dangerous to a marriage it needs to be either changed or ended completely. That is a pretty hard and set boundary. But what is not set in stone is how exactly to balance precaution against inappropriate relationships and precaution against stifling yourself or your spouse. Different people will start to feel stifled at different levels of precaution. As EasterJoy put it earlier in this thread,

If you save the goose from the fox by suffocating the goose, that defeats the purpose of being protective. You have to go for protections that preserve the life being protected: I mean the life of the relationship and affection between the spouses.

and that balance will be different for different couples. Thats just the way it is.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m sorry if I misread you…What I can say is that I have not at all experienced the men in my community of friends hugging the really attractive women any more than the rest of us. It is how we greet each other and say goodbye and every person greets everybody else, so perhaps that is why I have a harder time assuming that most of these guys are out to be aroused by hugging attractive women.

I don’t think we’re that far apart on this.

The vast majority of other men are not* out there *to be aroused. They are not gathering in a line, slobbering for a chance to feel up his wife, nor are they thinking up ways to steal her away for a life with them on a faraway island. Even the OP says that the photographer friend is hurting his feelings by one-upping him with his wife, not that he really thinks his wife and this guy are setting up an emotional affair with each other. (If a study were done, however, I would wager that attractive people hug and are hugged more than people who aren’t seen as so attractive, whether they are attractive for sexual reasons or attractive because they’re just the sweetest 90 year old lady you ever saw. The one you like more, you’ll hug more than the one you like less, whether you realize it or not.)

Having said that, it isn’t fair to tell him that a man hugging his wife as a friend is not realistically going to feel a thing for her that he wouldn’t feel for his literal biological sister. It isn’t fair to pretend that a decent man will never feel something when he hugs this lovely bubbly woman the OP married that he doesn’t feel when he hugs the 95 year old next to her. One is like his grandma, and the other one is the OP’s wife. It is also fair to ask all parties to recognize that when the hugger is a co-worker who has more than the occasional chance encounter with such a lovely female person, the chances that an emotional spark that isn’t wanted could be set off is not zero. There have been sad stories, and we all know it.

That doesn’t change the social situation, which is this: Adults in many places, including many Catholic parishes, are expected to allow unsolicited hugs as a greeting, and toning it down to a side-hug is sometimes even the most that the truly hug-averse are allowed to get away with without being seen as cold and standoffish. That’s just where societal taboos are right now: that is, the societal pressure is on the OP to allow his wife to go around hugging other men right in front of him. The societal mythology is that this is totally harmless, that nothing can ever come of it. Even priests are expected to let extremely attractive women just come up and bear-hug them, and pretend as if its the same as being hugged by a toothless old monk. While that is not entirely true, this extreme replaces the old extreme, the societal mythology that such hugging is extremely dangerous and will inevitably lead to adulteries and spousal abandonment or affronts to the husband’s dignity of a magnitude that he is practically forced to duel with offenders! (The pendulum has more often be WAY over in the other direction! Those were far worse days! )

She is going to be hugged by other guys as a greeting and it cannot be helped. Moreover, while she might be asked to cool it a bit on account of her husband’s discomfort, it is pointless and perhaps harmful to be too begrudging if she enjoys the current state of society. There is a limit to how much of a curb a spouse can put on a spouse that is beyond those boundaries that society agrees on. In our day and age, either the spouses agree on the boundary or bitterness is going to ensure. That is the landscape under which marriages now labor. In every age, it is something; this is our thing. It could be far worse.

My caution is that the OP not be made out into a mentally unstable person because he feels a natural wariness about other guys hugging his wife. He doesn’t need therapy and they don’t necessarily need marriage counseling, because there is nothing wrong with what he is feeling and his wife doesn’t seem to think there is. He should not be ashamed to tell his wife how he feels and he doesn’t have to turn himself inside out to convince himself that he ought to feel comfortable watching someone else hug his wife. It would be easier on him if he were, but there is no moral imperative that he not let this disturb him at all.

He does have to be realistic about how much his discomfort is going to be accommodated or what forms marital vigilance can take, but he shouldn’t be made out to be a bad guy for feeling discomfort on this issue. Many spouses do, and they are not experiencing some wildly inappropriate jealousy. It’s just not a protectiveness that can be dealt with as it once would have been. The landscape has changed, and like it or not, that is what he needs to cope with…with his wife’s help. That, I think he has, so I think they’ll be OK.

As for accepting gifts from opposite sex friends–that is something that is usually worked out within the couple. Some happily-married couples would never consider turning down a gift, others would never take a gift from a member of the opposite sex other than their spouse. What is most important is that the spouses find a way to be of a like mind. Sometimes, that takes a quite a bit of communication and give and take about what the real rub is with a particular person. The rub here, as nearly as I can tell, is the OPs sense that this guy is one-upping him on the very things he does to show affection and connection to his wife. That’s something for him to talk to his wife about. They sound as if their marriage is sound enough to handle that ongoing string of conversations on their own, though. The “right answer” is what they decide the right answer is.

 

[thewanderer]

I don’t think we’re that far apart on this.

The vast majority of other men are not* out there *to be aroused. They are not gathering in a line, slobbering for a chance to feel up his wife, nor are they thinking up ways to steal her away for a life with them on a faraway island.

Perhaps I have misread the OP, but from his posts both on this thread and the previous thread about hugging the above seems to be what the OP believes, which is why people are responding so harshly to him.

Even the OP says that the photographer friend is hurting his feelings by one-upping him with his wife, not that he really thinks his wife and this guy are setting up an emotional affair with each other.

He has stated multiple times that he doesn’t trust this other guy and believes the photographer is likely going after his wife. This is not just about feeling as though he is being one-upped

Having said that, it isn’t fair to tell him that a man hugging his wife as a friend is not realistically going to feel a thing for her that he wouldn’t feel for his literal biological sister. It isn’t fair to pretend that a decent man will never feel something when he hugs this lovely bubbly woman the OP married that he doesn’t feel when he hugs the 95 year old next to her. One is like his grandma, and the other one is the OP’s wife. It is also fair to ask all parties to recognize that when the hugger is a co-worker who has more than the occasional chance encounter with such a lovely female person, the chances that an emotional spark that isn’t wanted could be set off is not zero. There have been sad stories, and we all know it.

I am not advocating any such pretense. Of course there will be times when hugging lights a spark, just as sometimes shaking hands, or talking to, or looking at or hanging out with others will create a spark. And while it is understandable to not like the thought that other people are attracted to your spouse, that is not the problem the OP had in the hugging thread. He stated that he was totally fine with other people looking at his wife lustfully, and being visually attracted to her, he just didn’t want them hugging her because doing so would be their way of showing they are the alpha male in the room. It was not unease at the idea that someone else was attracted to his wife, but something else entirely

My caution is that the OP not be made out into a mentally unstable person because he feels a natural wariness about other guys hugging his wife. He doesn’t need therapy and they don’t necessarily need marriage counseling, because there is nothing wrong with what he is feeling and his wife doesn’t seem to think there is. He should not be ashamed to tell his wife how he feels and he doesn’t have to turn himself inside out to convince himself that he ought to feel comfortable watching someone else hug his wife. It would be easier on him if he were, but there is no moral imperative that he not let this disturb him at all.

If all the OP were feeling was a little unease at the thought that other people find his wife attractive then I would agree with you, that is perfectly natural and understandable. However he seems to get pleasure out of the fact that other people find his wife attractive, and spoke (in the other thread) of her kind of as though she were his trophy. Now, I am willing to think the best of the OP and accept that he might not be expressing himself well and that I might be misreading him, but if I am not misreading him then there is most certainly cause for concern about his attitude, both to his wife and to other men. People are responding harshly to the OP because they are reading him the same way I am. They are not disagreeing with the fact that care needs to be taken and boundaries set for married people and their interactions with others, they are just reading the OP’s posts differently than you are and responding to what they see as the greater and more urgent problem.

 

[iHeartGrumpyCat]

Sorry for the delay, it’s been a busy month.

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dedo said:
It is a little scary that your “resolution” is all about someone else changing, and not you changing.

I don’t really care if he changes or not, I just want him to stay away from my wife.

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hurting said:
Pay attention to what EasterJoy says here. There is much wisdom in her posts.

I agree! I would say the same about your posts also. Thank you for your insights!

For example: *I have no idea what the last paragraph is referring to. Jealously guarding is not the same as being jealous, for what it’s worth. A husband can most certainly protect his marriage (his wife if you will) by taking reasonable precautions so as not to let potentially adulterous relationships take root much less flower.

There is more than just a hint of at least potential impropriety in the OP’s situation, so his concern is warranted.*

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Xantippe said:
*EasterJoy said:

“If you save the goose from the fox by suffocating the goose, that defeats the purpose of being protective. You have to go for protections that preserve the life being protected: I mean the life of the relationship and affection between the spouses.”
*

Yes!

Is that a violent metaphor in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?

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on_the_hill said:
This is interesting. I’m not sure what advice to give or comment to make.

1. On the one hand, I think OP is blowing it out of proportion.
2. On the other hand, I think OP is to blame for letting himself be marginalized from his wife & family.
3. On the third hand, I think maybe OP is making this up for his own amusement.
4. On the fourth hand, if this is all legit, there’s the possibility that OP’s wife really does prefer the friendship of the Contractor to that of her husband. Based on what I’ve read, the OP is angry, frustrated, jealous, controlling, self-pitying, and probably not the most pleasant person to be around.

1. Your guess is as good as mine.
2. There is some truth to this. Our family went through some hard times, starting with my mother getting sick, and then other assorted issues. It had a detrimental effect on our core family and I’m ashamed to say I did neglect my duties as Head of Household.

It wasn’t necessarily my fault, but it is my problem to fix, and I own it.

1. Definitely not.
2. Awww, that’s not nice. I should report you to a moderator! Actually I’m a delightful person to be around, but I don’t suffer fools gladly and I really detest pomposity.

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Demetra2 said:
This may or may not be a problem for your wife but since it is a problem for you, you need to calmly discuss it. I have been happily married for 37 years and I would not be taking gifts from a male friend especially if it bothered my husband. And it would bother him!

Bless you.

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Evania said:
It only happened once…

Actually it’s been happening for almost a year, first the lens, then the pictures, now an apparently endless stream of pirated DVDs.

I took a close look at the pictures of my daughter the other day and they are in very nice store bought frames, not homemade frames as I originally thought. My Father In Law would make frames rather than buy them, so I assume the contractor bought the frames.

I haven’t had a chance to ask about them yet.

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Evania said:
I’m not going to slam this gentleman because of his kind gesture

Oh, my God. What are you basing that on? You assume wildly.

 

[iHeartGrumpyCat]

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Evania said:
In another thread, he was concerned that when men at church would hug his wife, even if it was a side-hug, the men were being “sexual”. The problem isn’t with any particular guy, it’s his fear of men in general.

I don’t care if it’s at church or out and about, if I don’t know the OM, he better be keeping his hands off my wife. If he’s a family friend that’s different. I spoke of this earlier, but you apparently forgot.

As for hugs, there are appropriate hugs and then there are inappropriate creepy hugs.

As long as the OM is a family friend and the hug is not creepy, I have no problem with the hug.

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on_the_hill said:
But we are both committed to our spouses and families, and I can sense that we both pull back from our “relationship” at times.

So–can marrieds be friend? Of course. Does it necessarily lead to hanky panky? Of course not.

But I do think the ‘other man’ in OP’s life ought to pull back a little bit. Whether or not he’s targeting OP’s wife, he does seem a bit forward.

Thank you, you sir are a pip!

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BlueEyedLady said:
His “all men are evil” attitude makes me think that it’s more a reflection of his own private attitudes.
…
What we’re saying is that given the evidence there is no reason to think that he’s “poaching” the OPs wife.

Certainly there are some evil ones, but mostly they’re just horny. I’m worried about the ones who have no morals or self control.

As for poaching, are you suggesting I wait and see and possibly find out the hard way?

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MJJean said:
Yes. I am a huggy person and even I was a bit surprised that so many men and women were hugging friends and strangers during the “Peace and Christ Be With You Cocktail Party”.

Yes, Liquid Libido will do that to you…

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BlueEyedLady said:
…and over 50% of men actively want to “steal” his wife…

Actually, that type of “man” is more interested in borrowing than stealing. My percentage may be high, it might not. Only a fool would deny that type of person exists, however.

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BlueEyedLady said:
…his wife’s happily married photographer buddy.

You, too, assume wildly.

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hurting said:
…you are unequivocally acknowledging that there is something patently and immutably different between a man-man or woman-woman friendship than one between a man and a woman

I haven’t gotten to the bottom of this mess that is a thread yet, but I’m sure that didn’t go over well.

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thewanderer said:
Or that as a married woman I should refuse to greet any of the men in my community of friends with a friendly hug because one of them might fall into that jerk category?

Yep. If your husband doesn’t know them, you shouldn’t be hugging them (or vice versa). I call that common courtesy to your husband and it’s a boundary that the wife and the OM should respect.

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EasterJoy said:
My caution is that the OP not be made out into a mentally unstable person because he feels a natural wariness about other guys hugging his wife.

twitch twitch…All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy…twitch twitch

EasterJoy and hurting, I truly appreciate you both for your common sense and wisdom. You have both given me valuable insights into this situation and EJ you are quite correct that we will weather this storm. Our marriage is quite strong at its core.

I thank you both for your invaluable insight and envelope you both in an arm of friendship. In a strictly acceptable side-hug, of course!

 

[thewanderer]

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thewanderer said:
Or that as a married woman I should refuse to greet any of the men in my community of friends with a friendly hug because one of them might fall into that jerk category?

Yep. If your husband doesn’t know them, you shouldn’t be hugging them (or vice versa). I call that common courtesy to your husband and it’s a boundary that the wife and the OM should respect.

If both me and my husband are fine with it in given circumstances then I don’t really know who you are to tell me that it is wrong for me to hug other men who I am good friends with as a form of greeting. Yes, there are circumstances where me hugging men or my husband hugging women would be problematic for us, but it really isn’t up to you to decide where that line lies for us. Yes, you have a say in your own marriage, and, as EasterJoy has pointed out it is necessary for your wife to be sensitive to your feelings on this matter, but that doesn’t mean you get to declare your boundaries as necessary for every married couple. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so in the future.

 

[thewanderer]

If both me and my husband are fine with it in given circumstances then I don’t really know who you are to tell me that it is wrong for me to hug other men who I am good friends with as a form of greeting. Yes, there are circumstances where me hugging men or my husband hugging women would be problematic for us, but it really isn’t up to you to decide where that line lies for us. Yes, you have a say in your own marriage, and, as EasterJoy has pointed out it is necessary for your wife to be sensitive to your feelings on this matter, but that doesn’t mean you get to declare your boundaries as necessary for every married couple. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so in the future.

Just wanted to make sure this was clear, but you have to be sensitive to your wife’s feelings on this matter too. If she is totally fine with the boundaries you want, no problem, however if she they make her feel suffocated or the way you present them makes her feel suffocated you have to take that into account as well. It goes both ways.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Just wanted to make sure this was clear, but you have to be sensitive to your wife’s feelings on this matter too. If she is totally fine with the boundaries you want, no problem, however if she they make her feel suffocated or the way you present them makes her feel suffocated you have to take that into account as well. It goes both ways.

It doesn’t really sound like his wife’s feelings matter much to him at all. He only thinks that men who know him should hug his wife. Nevermind that she may run into old friends that she hasn’t seen in years, she should pull away from them and explain that she can’t hug them until they meet her husband.

I really couldn’t imagine living like that. My husband loves and trusts me. If I run into an old friend, I’m going to hug and greet him, and then at the first opportunity introduce him to my new husband. For my husband to demand that I find a time for them to meet before hugging my dear old friend shows a lack of trust in me and my judgement, and frankly, seems controlling and abusive.

He never, ever speaks of his wife as a woman who makes her own choices. She is his wife and other men need to keep their hands off of her not because she deserves respect or deserves to feel comfortable, but because she is his, and they don’t have a right to hug the woman that ishis. I think that this comes down to his pride more than anything.

 

[thewanderer]

It doesn’t really sound like his wife’s feelings matter much to him at all. He only thinks that men who know him should hug his wife. Nevermind that she may run into old friends that she hasn’t seen in years, she should pull away from them and explain that she can’t hug them until they meet her husband.

I really couldn’t imagine living like that. My husband loves and trusts me. If I run into an old friend, I’m going to hug and greet him, and then at the first opportunity introduce him to my new husband. For my husband to demand that I find a time for them to meet before hugging my dear old friend shows a lack of trust in me and my judgement, and frankly, seems controlling and abusive.

He never, ever speaks of his wife as a woman who makes her own choices. She is his wife and other men need to keep their hands off of her not because she deserves respect or deserves to feel comfortable, but because she is his, and they don’t have a right to hug the woman that ishis. I think that this comes down to his pride more than anything.

Yeah, I don’t know that the situation is necessarily as far as being abusive, but from what I have read it definitely seems very problematic.

With regard to the bold, I know, right!! Seriously, its as though he thinks that his wife (and apparantly all women according to his last post) are incapable of knowing when a guy is out to get cheap pleasure and when he is showing genuine affection. Ok, sure, sometimes its hard to tell, but to claim that it is wrong for any wife to ever hug a man her husband does not personally know, no matter what the circumstances are, is way out of bounds.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Yeah, I don’t know that the situation is necessarily as far as being abusive, but from what I have read it definitely seems very problematic.

With regard to the bold, I know, right!! Seriously, its as though he thinks that his wife (and apparantly all women according to his last post) are incapable of knowing when a guy is out to get cheap pleasure and when he is showing genuine affection. Ok, sure, sometimes its hard to tell, but to claim that it is wrong for any wife to ever hug a man her husband does not personally know, no matter what the circumstances are, is way out of bounds.

I know, the idea that women are incompetent and foolish makes me cringe.

Yep. I hug married men who’s wives I’ve never met. These married men tend to be old friends that I run into that I haven’t seen in awhile. Obviously, since I’ve never met their wives I’m just out to cop a feel. There can’t be any other reason I would give an old friend a hug, right?

I do consider this situation borderline abusive. One of the hallmarks of an abuser is extreme distrust and a desire to control and limit the social lives and personal relationships of their partner. He doesn’t feel like his wife has the right to give a quick hug and catch up with an old friend until he has been properly introduced. He, without evidence, accuses his wife’s friends of “poaching” her. Trying to turn her against them like that is scary. And what’s even scarier is that this behavior tends to escalate.

He doesn’t have to be hitting her for the relationship to be abusive. Controlling, belittling, and manipulating are enough.

 

[thewanderer]

I know, the idea that women are incompetent and foolish makes me cringe.

Yep. I hug married men who’s wives I’ve never met. These married men tend to be old friends that I run into that I haven’t seen in awhile. Obviously, since I’ve never met their wives I’m just out to cop a feel. There can’t be any other reason I would give an old friend a hug, right?

I do consider this situation borderline abusive. One of the hallmarks of an abuser is extreme distrust and a desire to control and limit the social lives and personal relationships of their partner. He doesn’t feel like his wife has the right to give a quick hug and catch up with an old friend until he has been properly introduced. He, without evidence, accuses his wife’s friends of “poaching” her. Trying to turn her against them like that is scary. And what’s even scarier is that this behavior tends to escalate.

He doesn’t have to be hitting her for the relationship to be abusive. Controlling, belittling, and manipulating are enough.

Perhaps borderline abusive, assuming we are reading the situation correctly. I’m still hesitant to claim it is necessarily there, especially since it is so easy to misread a situation when you just hear about it online, but it is certainly close to it and a problem to be looked into and fixed.