Married Priests in the U.S

[L_Marshall]

A few brief comments, made in charity:

You may do well to better explore the idea of “vocation” in the Church alone, without dealing with any one in particular. No vocation is inherently superior to another, and certain vocations certainly aren’t a “runner-up,” although the diaconate is (unfortunately) treated as such some time.

That being said, the fact of the matter is that married men are not ordinarily ordained priests in the Latin Rite. It is only done in extraordinary situations, usually when a married non-Catholic (typically Anglican) minister is married, then converts to Catholicism.

Before going further, I’d like to say that this situation (a married non-Catholic minister converting to Catholicism and being ordained a Catholic priest) only holds if the person was never Catholic. If you were Catholic, and then committed apostasy by joining the Anglican Communion just so you could be a married Catholic priests, you will be found out and refused Holy Orders. I don’t say this because I think that the OP would do this, but because I know men who have entertained the idea in the past, and it’s best to draw a hard line for anyone reading this.

That having been said, it’s not usual for men discerning to struggle with the desire to get married. This is because the desire for marriage is primordial, and it’s something that every seminarian must deal with.

That having all been said, I do recommend you find a spiritual director, or contact the director of vocations in your diocese.

With prayers for you and your discernment,

 

[Ben_Quincy]

Thread reminder:

Charity is the primary rule of CAF. Please post accordingly.

 

[RyanBlack]

Being married to the Church is wife enough.** If you were to marry a woman as well it would be like bigamy; especially if that is your intent when you set out.**
.

This is an insult to all of the priests of the Eastern Churches (including Eastern Catholic Churches) who are married, as well as to a number of Latin priests who are married.

 

[InspiritCarol]

This is an insult to all of the priests of the Eastern Churches (including Eastern Catholic Churches) who are married, as well as to a number of Latin priests who are married.

No. In these traditions, do the priests Marry the Church?
They do in ours.
The literal definition if bigamy: 2 marriages.
I should not have said “it is like”. I should have said it is.

I ran this by a priest friend of mine some time ago and he agreed with me.
I pass no judgement on these matters.
I do, however have friends who are the wives of Protestant pastors. I know they have laughed at this observation and nodded. It is a mighty calling of sacrifice to be a pastor’s wife. Please do not belittle this fact.

I wonder how it is that you find insult in simple truth.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

No. In these traditions, do the priests Marry the Church?
They do in ours.
The literal definition if bigamy: 2 marriages.
I should not have said “it is like”. I should have said it is.

I ran this by a priest friend of mine some time ago and he agreed with me.
I pass no judgement on these matters.
I do, however have friends who are the wives of Protestant pastors. I know they have laughed at this observation and nodded. It is a mighty calling of sacrifice to be a pastor’s wife. Please do not belittle this fact.

I wonder how it is that you find insult in simple truth.

Then the Protestant clergy who have converted, been ordained as Catholic priests, and continue their married lives with their wives are bigamists, yes?

 

[KEYM]

I believe that celibacy due to religious reasons is a calling, similar to a vocation. Not everyone has that calling. Even though a seminarian understands that celibacy comes with the territory, perhaps not every man does have that additional calling (1. priesthood, 2. celibacy). I wish that the Roman Catholic church would accept the Eastern Orthodox rules. A priest can enter the seminary married. If he is not married at the time of his seminary studies then he does not marry and remains celibate.

 

[InspiritCarol]

Then the Protestant clergy who have converted, been ordained as Catholic priests, and continue their married lives with their wives are bigamists, yes?

You’re derailing the thread.

I have no authority whatsoever over these things, nor do I pass judgement. I do know that the Protestant ministers → priests undergo special scrutiny, have to meet strict criteria, and undergo a different ceremony. None of these things do I have the details of.

Please do not insult the vocational calling of RC priests by insisting that they are not married to the Church.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

You’re derailing the thread.

I have no authority whatsoever over these things, nor do I pass judgement. I do know that the Protestant ministers → priests undergo special scrutiny, have to meet strict criteria, and undergo a different ceremony. None of these things do I have the details of.

Please do not insult the vocational calling of RC priests by insisting that they are not married to the Church.

I’m derailing nothing. I’m challenging your flat-out statement that “Being married to the church is wife enough. If you were to marry a woman as well it would be like bigamy.” And I have insulted nothing, least of all the vocations of Eastern Rite married priests whom you seem to regard as in an irregular status - I.e., In effect bigamists. And finally, I am unaware that former Protestant clergy being ordained as Catholic priests undergo “a different ceremony.” I had thought that there was only a single Rite of Ordination in the Latin Rite, with a modification regarding continence in the case of a married man.

 

[RyanBlack]

No. In these traditions, do the priests Marry the Church?
They do in ours.
The literal definition if bigamy: 2 marriages.
I should not have said “it is like”. I should have said it is.

I ran this by a priest friend of mine some time ago and he agreed with me.
I pass no judgement on these matters.
I do, however have friends who are the wives of Protestant pastors. I know they have laughed at this observation and nodded. It is a mighty calling of sacrifice to be a pastor’s wife. Please do not belittle this fact.

I wonder how it is that you find insult in simple truth.

You call married priests of my Church, with which you are in communion, bigamists, and wonder why I consider it an insult?

BTW, is the Church a polygamist? By your reasoning, she is.

There is no Church teaching that priests are married to the Church. It is a popular idea held by many, but it is not Church teaching.

 

[RyanBlack]

I believe that celibacy due to religious reasons is a calling, similar to a vocation. Not everyone has that calling. Even though a seminarian understands that celibacy comes with the territory, perhaps not every man does have that additional calling (1. priesthood, 2. celibacy). I wish that the Roman Catholic church would accept the Eastern Orthodox rules. A priest can enter the seminary married. If he is not married at the time of his seminary studies then he does not marry and remains celibate.

That’s not actual Orthodox practice; at least not universal Orthodox practice. A man can enter the seminary single and still become a married priest, provided he marries prior to ordination.

 

[RyanBlack]

You’re derailing the thread.

I have no authority whatsoever over these things, nor do I pass judgement. I do know that the Protestant ministers → priests undergo special scrutiny, have to meet strict criteria, and undergo a different ceremony. None of these things do I have the details of.

Please do not insult the vocational calling of RC priests by insisting that they are not married to the Church.

They are not married to the Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ, and Christ alone.

 

[RyanBlack]

You’re derailing the thread.

I have no authority whatsoever over these things, nor do I pass judgement. I do know that the Protestant ministers → priests** undergo special scrutiny**, have to meet strict criteria, and undergo a different ceremony. None of these things do I have the details of.

Please do not insult the vocational calling of RC priests by insisting that they are not married to the Church.

I’ve never been to an ordination of a priest, but I know that ordination to the priesthood, is, well, ordination to the priesthood. Married men who are ordained as priests receive the exact same sacrament of Holy Orders as celibate men who are ordained.

 

[RyanBlack]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

“In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities.” (1580)

Surely the Church would not call “legitimate” a practice that is bigamy, since the Church does not permit bigamy.

 

[InspiritCarol]

You call married priests of my Church, with which you are in communion, bigamists,…

No. I don’t. Period. I don’t know anything about your church.
I do know that there are all kinds of different ceremonies initiating men into the priesthood depending on the order they are with, the particular age, and time and country and any number of different affecting factors.
Again, I have no details except they are all very, very long.

Since neither of you deny the fact that RC priests are married to the church, I can only conclude that you agree with that fact so the rest of your statements are otiose at best, else simply antagonistic.

*Your *perceived slight is utterly contrived on your part. :ehh:
And let’s be honest, it’s all really silly to begin with.

Is this helping the op? … Not so much.
Unless… are you trying to tell him to convert to your faith?
Why don’t you just say so? (Guess I could have missed it.)

Now.

What I don’t understand is why no-one is calling me out on my ironic statement about Expectations?

See, the statement against expectations demonstrates an expectation in itself.
There is an infinite difference between prophesy and projection.

Projection there, reaps me projection here?

 

[RyanBlack]

No. I don’t. Period. I don’t know anything about your church.

That’s too bad, since I am Catholic, and my Church, the Byzantine Catholic Metropolia of Pittsburgh, is in communion with Rome. My church has a tradition of married priests, and by calling married priests bigamists, you insult a valid tradition of my Church–a Church in communion with the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[RyanBlack]

Since neither of you deny the fact that RC priests are married to the church, I can only conclude that you agree with that fact so the rest of your statements are otiose at best, else simply antagonistic.

I most certainly do deny the notion (not a fact at all) that Roman Catholic priests are married to the Church. There is no such Church teaching.

 

[RyanBlack]

*Your *perceived slight is utterly contrived on your part. :ehh:
And let’s be honest, it’s all really silly to begin with.

Nothing contrived about, nothing silly about it. Also, what is not silly, but is disturbing, is your failure to see equating married priests–a legitimate and ancient tradition of the Church–with bigamy is an insult.

 

[RyanBlack]

Is this helping the op? … Not so much.
Unless… are you trying to tell him to convert to your faith?
Why don’t you just say so? (Guess I could have missed it.)

I’m not trying to convert anyone, but if I were, I don’t know why you would object, since you and I are both Catholic.

 

[shawnbm]

I have a more pointed question regarding married priests in a Latin Church. What is the rule regarding continence? As I understand it, a married priest is permitted to live as husband and wife and could, if God wills it, have children. Is this not correct? Accordingly, IF–and I put that in capital letters for a reason–a married man were to approach the Church and promise a vow of remaining celibate even though remaining married, would that be something the Latin Church might consider as feeling between the current Eastern Catholic discipline and that of the Latin Churches at this time? You could have married priests in the Latin Church who live as celibates although remain married. :newidea:

 

[L_Marshall]

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the personal argument that has been going on on this forum is inappropriate. It’s not directly related to the subject at hand. For the sake of the rest of our interest in the original topic, please discontinue using this forum for the argument. You guys can duke it out via PM if it’s that urgent.