"Married" same-sex couple in RCIA

[NOLA_Catechumen]

I am in RCIA and enjoying the process of conversion from another Christian faith. There are about 10 people in my class, two of whom are men who introduced themselves as “roommates.” One is Catholic already and is going through RCIA to bolster his knowledge of the faith. The other is Baptist. They attend Sunday mass regularly and hug during the sign of peace. So far so good, and I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

However, at last week’s class and at Sunday mass they both wore wedding rings (they had not done so before, are still roommates, and still sit together at mass – no wives to be seen). They are apparently “married” to each other now. It has become the pink elephant in the room, as no one has ever brought it up in class. Although we did address homosexuality in class, our RCIA leader had us read passages from the text we are using, without discussing it.

I know Christ does not want us to judge others, but by the same token we should not allow scandal to attack the faith of others. I have heard stories of rainbow ribbons being worn by gays in some parishes who want to make a point of going forward to receive communion while saying to the world that they are gay, daring the priest to deny them. Would being “married” and wearing a wedding ring be the same thing? Should that affect their completion of RCIA?

I don’t really know how to approach this, though I have been praying for them. We are all sinners and I am truly glad that they (as I) have decided to become Catholic. But is RICA a two-way street in that either the catechumen or the Church can determine that a candidate is not ready to join the Church?

Finally, from a somewhat selfish standpoint, I worry about them detracting from the baptism and confirmation ceremony. I don’t know how many others in the parish know about their state of affairs, but I can already hear the whispers on what should be a special day for all of us (and of course for God).

Thanks for any thoughts others may have on this sensitive issue.

 

[buffalo]

True Catholic charity demands fraternal correction. Looke like a teachable moment.

**1829 **The *fruits *of charity are joy, peace, and mercy; charity demands beneficence and fraternal correction; it is benevolence; it fosters reciprocity and remains disinterested and generous; it is friendship and communion: Love is itself the fulfillment of all our works. There is the goal; that is why we run: we run toward it, and once we reach it, in it we shall find rest.

**1435 **Conversion is accomplished in daily life by gestures of reconciliation, concern for the poor, the exercise and defense of justice and right, by the admission of faults to one’s brethren, fraternal correction, revision of life, examination of conscience, spiritual direction, acceptance of suffering, endurance of persecution for the sake of righteousness. Taking up one’s cross each day and following Jesus is the surest way of penance.

 

[Writer]

My family was where you are now last year, and I am sorry for this added stress to deal with. It would have bother me, as well. I would encourage you to share your concerns confidentially with your priest, if the RCIA instructor is not comfortable discussing it with you. If possible, though, try to give the two persons the benefit of the doubt in the meantime. Is there possibly an alternative explanation? If that is indeed what is taking place, however, it seems to me to be similar to mocking the Church and the body of believers, and I don’t think it should be permitted to continue. I will keep your struggle in my prayers.

 

[buffalo]

We can judge the actions of others, we cannot judge their salvation.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Nola,

Suppose an RCIA member came to class one week six months pregnant and the next week she came not pregnant with a planned parenthood pin on. Should the lector therefore negate teaching the class the Church’s stand on abortion? To teach, and make sure RCIA members understand the Church’s position, on sin is not evil judgement. To teach people, especially RCIA members, what is sin is the duty of the Church.

 

[ChristsSoldier]

Steven Merten:

Hello Nola,

Suppose an RCIA member came to class one week six months pregnant and the next week she came not pregnant with a planned parenthood pin on. Should the lector therefore negate teaching the class the Church’s stand on abortion? To teach, and make sure RCIA members understand the Church’s position, on sin is not evil judgement. To teach people, especially RCIA members, what is sin is the duty of the Church.

Be Blessed,
I agree with Steven; however, I am not convinced of the ‘marriage’ here… (maybe I missed something)
Could they be Chastity Bands?
It seems a simple question might start a conversation that would bring light to the issue.
Peace,
CS

 

[BigEasyBig]

So why not be friendly and ask one where his spouse is? Does his spouse support his RCIA? Etc.

Pink Elephants grow in size the longer we refuse to address the issue. Issues can be addressed with tact and compassion; who knoiws, there may be a logical (non-gay) explanation.

It is possible for two gay men to live together as brotehrs and be in full communion with the churhc, just as it is possible for a man and woman, married otuside of church, to live together as brother and sister while awaiting . . .

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Best advice…get Christopher West’s DVD series on Theology of the Body (if your church doesn’t have a copy already) and have the RCIA class watch it together and then discuss. You’d be amazed at what will come up in conversation.

 

[BryPGuy89]

NOLA Catechumen:

I am in RCIA and enjoying the process of conversion from another Christian faith. There are about 10 people in my class, two of whom are men who introduced themselves as “roommates.” One is Catholic already and is going through RCIA to bolster his knowledge of the faith. The other is Baptist. They attend Sunday mass regularly and hug during the sign of peace. So far so good, and I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

However, at last week’s class and at Sunday mass they both wore wedding rings (they had not done so before, are still roommates, and still sit together at mass – no wives to be seen). They are apparently “married” to each other now. It has become the pink elephant in the room, as no one has ever brought it up in class. Although we did address homosexuality in class, our RCIA leader had us read passages from the text we are using, without discussing it.

I know Christ does not want us to judge others, but by the same token we should not allow scandal to attack the faith of others. I have heard stories of rainbow ribbons being worn by gays in some parishes who want to make a point of going forward to receive communion while saying to the world that they are gay, daring the priest to deny them. Would being “married” and wearing a wedding ring be the same thing? Should that affect their completion of RCIA?

I don’t really know how to approach this, though I have been praying for them. We are all sinners and I am truly glad that they (as I) have decided to become Catholic. But is RICA a two-way street in that either the catechumen or the Church can determine that a candidate is not ready to join the Church?

Finally, from a somewhat selfish standpoint, I worry about them detracting from the baptism and confirmation ceremony. I don’t know how many others in the parish know about their state of affairs, but I can already hear the whispers on what should be a special day for all of us (and of course for God).

Thanks for any thoughts others may have on this sensitive issue.

Practicing homosexuals can’t become Catholic, they deny it’s vry teachings. Something should be done for them so except that to fully except Jesus and the Church they must turn from that lifestyle and to a more appropriate one.

 

[dhgray]

NOLA Catechumen:

I don’t really know how to approach this, though I have been praying for them. We are all sinners and I am truly glad that they (as I) have decided to become Catholic. But is RICA a two-way street in that either the catechumen or the Church can determine that a candidate is not ready to join the Church?

First of all W E L C M E to the Forum and to the C A T H L I C faith.

If I were in you place, I’d talk to the parish priest and ask him to look in to it. At the RCIA meeting I’d bring up:

**THE FIVE NON-NEGOTIABLE ISSUES **

These five current issues concern actions that are intrinsically evil and must never be promoted by the law. Intrinsically evil actions are those which fundamentally conflict with the moral law and can never be deliberately performed under any circumstances. It is a serious sin to deliberately endorse or promote any of these actions, and no candidate who really wants to advance the common good will support any action contrary to the non-negotiable principles involved in these issues.

1. Abortion

2. Euthanasia

3. Embryonic Stem Cell Research

4. Human Cloning

5. Homosexual "Marriage"

Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral" (UHP 10).

COMPLETE TEXT HERE.

From one convert to another … welcome to the faith.

 

[Palamite]

BryPGuy89,

Practicing homosexuals can’t become Catholic, they deny it’s vry teachings. Something should be done for them so except that to fully except Jesus and the Church they must turn from that lifestyle and to a more appropriate one.

While I’d obviously agree that some “doctrinal stance” against the RCC’s teachings on homosexuality (which I agree with, btw.) would make their standing within the church an issue, I have to wonder about the situation of two “gay” Roman Catholics not being able to be Catholic. I guess what I mean is, would we say the same of a chronic masturbator? Someone who is shacked up with someone and having difficulty extricating themselves from that situation? I guess my point is, being a very poor penitent does not of itself mean, as far as I can tell, that would should be outright booted from the house of prayer.

 

[Jonah]

They are apparently “married” to each other now

This is quite an assumption you are taking upon yourself. Unless you have asked, and they have clearly told you that they are “married”; I certainly wouldn’t assume, if I were you.

I have two friends that receive communion and shouldn’t’. One is having an affair and the other one misses mass on a regular basis. I have told both of them they according to the Catholic Church they are not to receive communion. One says WE ARE THE CHURCH and we are sinners. We should all receive communion … we are never worthy. The other says, “I spend time with my kids on Sunday, it’s family time, it is our church.”

Alrighty then… What I see is that everyone has a personal interpretation of what the “church” teaches and obviously some rules do not apply to all.

Try not to be scandalized by how other people live in our Catholic Community. These people may be obvious to you, but there are far worse crimes being committed that you know nothing about… Yet, they could be sitting right next to you…

When I see my friends go receive communion I think to myself; must be nice not to have a conscience that isn’t constantly kicking your arse.

 

[NOLA_Catechumen]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcomes and for sharing your thoughts.

Coming from a Protestant faith that held that murderers, rapists, etc. can be saved if they only accept Christ as their Lord and savior, I have no problem with the Church accepting as members those who lead a homosexual lifestyle (“let he who is without sin…”). I think it was Mother Angelica who, when challenged as to why someone should join a church that is full of hypocrites, agreed that the Church is full of hypocrites, and that it could always use one more. It seems to me that if the Church is selective as to which sinners are allowed into its midst, then it cannot help them (starting with reconciliation – I for one am not exactly looking forward to my first confession ever).

However, we all comprise the Church, and we should not by our silence sanction that which goes against the Church and natural law. I do not doubt that many who are conscious of mortal sin take communion, but they do not wear a scarlet “A.” Even if they are living as brothers or go to weekly confession, the rings are an outward sign of disobedience.

I did not notice the rings at last week’s class, but one of my more observant classmates told me Saturday, then they wore them to mass. Although I have not spoken to them about it, our next meeting is tonight and I will ask about it after class, offer my prayers if it is true, and ask one of our priests for his thoughts.

 

[dhgray]

NOLA Catechumen:

Although I have not spoken to them about it, our next meeting is tonight and I will ask about it after class, offer my prayers if it is true, and ask one of our priests for his thoughts.

You could simply ask (in class)…“What is the Churches stance on Homosexuality and the Homesexual lifestyle?” Let the RCIA istructor take the heat. Here is some ammo for you:
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 2357:

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms throughout the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which present homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity [Gen. 19:1-29, Rom. 1:24-27, 1 Cor. 6:10, 1Tim. 1:10], tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered Persona Humana 8]. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 2358:

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 2359:

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[buffalo]

dhgray:

You could simply ask (in class)…“What is the Churches stance on Homosexuality and the Homesexual lifestyle?” Let the RCIA istructor take the heat. Here is some ammo for you:

Maybe phrase it this way.

Can we look up what the Chruch teaches it in the Catechism and have him read it aloud.

 

[carol_marie]

I like the suggestion of walking up to one of the classmates and simply saying, “Oh… I didn’t know you were married… what does your wife think of you becoming Catholic?” Let HIM feel uncomfortable - or maybe he won’t? If he says, "I am gay… this is my “husband” - or whatever… say, “Wow… how will you reconcile your beliefs about homosexuality with the Church’s teaching that it’s a sin?” Not in a nasty way… just curious. I’d ask the same of someone who told me they were living with a person of the opposite sex. I think a direct approach in a non-confrontational way is best.

Or… bring your concerns to the Priest if the direct approach isn’t your style.

P.S. Bless you on your journey to the Church!

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Palamite:

BryPGuy89,
While I’d obviously agree that some “doctrinal stance” against the RCC’s teachings on homosexuality (which I agree with, btw.) would make their standing within the church an issue, I have to wonder about the situation of two “gay” Roman Catholics not being able to be Catholic. I guess what I mean is, would we say the same of a chronic masturbator? Someone who is shacked up with someone and having difficulty extricating themselves from that situation? I guess my point is, being a very poor penitent does not of itself mean, as far as I can tell, that would should be outright booted from the house of prayer.

One of the people in the pair is a Baptist, according to the OP. Well, if that person is going to be received into full communion with the Church, he will have to declare, publically, (my wife did so, along with the other baptized people received into the Church at the Easter Vigil) that they believe ALL that the Catholic Church teaches as true. How can this person make such a declaration if he is living in a situation which denies the teaching of the Church (from the deposit of the faith, since it concerns the Sacrament of Matrimony) when he makes the declaration?

As our parish priest once pointed out in a homily, it is one thing to sin, and another, far worse thing to declare, in word or deed (like getting “married”) that something which the Church teaches is sinful is not, in fact, a sin.

If these fellows do indeed claim to be “married” to each other, this is a very serious situation, which should be brought to the attention of the Parish Priest, and if he dismisses the situation, then to the Diocesan Bishop. This would NOT be an intolerant or unloving act directed against the two men. It would be a first step in mustering the resources of the Church to help them bring their lives back under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Penny_Plain]

Gerry Hunter:

One of the people in the pair is a Baptist, according to the OP. Well, if that person is going to be received into full communion with the Church, he will have to declare, publically, (my wife did so, along with the other baptized people received into the Church at the Easter Vigil) that they believe ALL that the Catholic Church teaches as true. How can this person make such a declaration if he is living in a situation which denies the teaching of the Church (from the deposit of the faith, since it concerns the Sacrament of Matrimony) when he makes the declaration?

Which sounds like an issue for the person, the person’s priest, and Almighty God, not for the OP, who has no actual knowledge of the state of this person’s soul and is reading a great deal into what could very well be an innocent situation.

What did Ann Landers say? MYOB?

 

[BryPGuy89]

Palamite:

BryPGuy89,

While I’d obviously agree that some “doctrinal stance” against the RCC’s teachings on homosexuality (which I agree with, btw.) would make their standing within the church an issue, I have to wonder about the situation of two “gay” Roman Catholics not being able to be Catholic. I guess what I mean is, would we say the same of a chronic masturbator? Someone who is shacked up with someone and having difficulty extricating themselves from that situation? I guess my point is, being a very poor penitent does not of itself mean, as far as I can tell, that would should be outright booted from the house of prayer.

Well I don’t know, if i knew some women in a RICA class kept having sex with random partners, getting pregnant, and having abortipons time and time again, I would feel that she isn’t ready to be part of the Church, or acceptable to receive the true faith until some sacrifice of sinful ways are given up. To deny them to practice the faith no, but to allow them into the Church has a being and faith knowing that they knowingly deny the very teachings in public (unlike masturbation, which also isn’t a 100% condemned practice like homosexual behavior), what would that say about the faith to other potential converts? I don’t want to deny them God or church building access, I’m talking about initiation into the Church the institution and being.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

(unlike masturbation, which also isn’t a 100% condemned practice like homosexual behavior)

Yes, it is:

**2352 **By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

**2396 **Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

The Catechism is pretty clear.