"Married" same-sex couple in RCIA

[BryPGuy89]

ElizabethAnne:

Yes, it is:

**2352 **By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

**2396 **Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

The Catechism is pretty clear.

Not the same as homosexual practice at all. In the Bible homosexuality is called out time and again, specifically addressed as a hated and despised practice by God. One is a sin yes and threatens a soul, the other is absolutely condemned by the word of God word for word, I lack the sight in which you view the two. Assult and murder are not the same level of violence are they? Maybe I see things in different levels then you do, if you think they are the same.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

BryPGuy89:

Not the same as homosexual practice at all. In the Bible homosexuality is called out time and again, specifically addressed as a hated and despised practice by God. One is a sin yes and threatens a soul, the other is absolutely condemned by the word of God word for word, I lack the sight in which you view the two. Assult and murder are not the same level of violence are they? Maybe I see things in different levels then you do, if you think they are the same.

There are only two types of sin: mortal and venial. Both masterbation and homosexual sex acts are disordered and meet the conditions for grave matter. Whether or not they are mortal sins would depend on consent and knowledge, but they both have the potential to be mortal sins.

How are they on two different levels?

 

[buffalo]

ElizabethAnne:

How are they on two different levels?

Habit (addiction) vs choice.

 

[LeahInancsi]

I apologize for getting this thread back on topic, BUT…

I’m also currently in RCIA.

The preceeding posts have had some very good points. If this couple were in my RCIA class, I doubt I would have noticed whether they were wearing rings or not. I’ve got my own thing going and am not watching the other class members that closely. I’d be the first to be suspected of being gay out of everybody else because I’m almost 50 years old and never been married. My mother likes to make that assumption in similar situations.

I have several points to make:

1. Does all this chit chat about these guys fall under the sin of gossip?
2. I don’t think the author of this thread knows enough to say anything to anybody about anything.
3. Haven’t any of the RCIA assistants noticed anything. All of the assistants in my class have gotten to know everybody pretty well over the past six months.
4. Discernment. Who did the discernment interview? What happended then?
5. I attend every class and every Mass with my sponsor. Her husband attends Mass with us. Does that mean there’s something underhanded going on? A threesome?
6. It is the sponsor’s responsibility to determine if the candidate is ready to become Catholic. If the sponsor is not truthful, then he is also sinning.
7. Before Easter Vigil or confirmation, the candidate will have to go to confession. We don’t know what will be said there.
8. We just don’t know enough to JUDGE! This kind of GOSSIP can be very harmful.

Where is PuzzleAnnie when we need her?

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

LeahInancsi:

I have several points to make:

1. Does all this chit chat about these guys fall under the sin of gossip?

Is it gossip when the individuals are not named, and cannot be identified from the information provided? Frankly, I wouldn’t know them if I fell over them.

2. I don’t think the author of this thread knows enough to say anything to anybody about anything.

There’s no clear concensus in the thread that says the author should, and much to indicate that more clarification is needed if anything is to be done, and that, discretely.

3. Haven’t any of the RCIA assistants noticed anything. All of the assistants in my class have gotten to know everybody pretty well over the past six months.

I do wish the same could be said for all RCIA cleaaes.

4. Discernment. Who did the discernment interview? What happended then?

Now how can any of us know that? Additionally, it is made very clear in our parish that the curious are welcome to RCIA, and come with no obligation to be received into the Church.

5. I attend every class and every Mass with my sponsor. Her husband attends Mass with us. Does that mean there’s something underhanded going on? A threesome?

I rather doubt it. But this thread was a call for thoughts, not for an interpretation of observations, and I don’t see anyone saying that, based on what is observed to this point, there’s enough information to act.

6. It is the sponsor’s responsibility to determine if the candidate is ready to become Catholic. If the sponsor is not truthful, then he is also sinning.

No question!

7. Before Easter Vigil or confirmation, the candidate will have to go to confession. We don’t know what will be said there.

The point about the first confession was also mentioned in the thread.

8. We just don’t know enough to JUDGE! This kind of GOSSIP can be very harmful.

No, we don’t, but since the people are unknown, is gossip the right term? Whose reputation is being diminished in the discussion? Persons unknown? We do not even know where these events are taking place.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[LeahInancsi]

Gerry,

Perhaps I should have directed all of my comments to the author. I’m assuming that she/he knows who these people are, etc., etc.

I just hope the people in my RCIA class are evaluating who should and should not be admitted to the Church.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

LeahInancsi:

Gerry,

Perhaps I should have directed all of my comments to the author. I’m assuming that she/he knows who these people are, etc., etc.

I just hope the people in my RCIA class are evaluating who should and should not be admitted to the Church.

I think you left out a “not” after “are” in the last sentence, and with that “not” in place, I agree.

Still, when something presents itself, it is prudent not to simply pretend that one saw nothing, a la Sgt. Schultz.

This is certainly a delicate matter, to be handled delicately, mostly because it is frought with ambiguity at its current juncture, precluding definitive conclusions.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[LeahInancsi]

Gerry Hunter:

I think you left out a “not” after “are” in the last sentence, and with that “not” in place, I agree.

Still, when something presents itself, it is prudent not to simply pretend that one saw nothing, a la Sgt. Schultz.

This is certainly a delicate matter, to be handled delicately, mostly because it is frought with ambiguity at its current juncture, precluding definitive conclusions.

Blessings,

Gerry

Yes, you’re right about the typo.

I agree that it’s best not to ignore something that you’ve seen, but I don’t know what to do in this situation. Going behind the suspected party’s backs when you have no proof of the facts doesn’t sit right with me. Leaving it in God’s hands and prayer is probably the best solution.

 

[Jonah]

Pardon my pique, but I am getting a bit tired of having my words twisted.

DITTO

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LeahInancsi,

1. Before Easter Vigil or confirmation, the candidate will have to go to confession. We don’t know what will be said there.
2. We just don’t know enough to JUDGE! This kind of GOSSIP can be very harmful.

On 7 I couldn’t agree with you more.

As far as 8 I don’t feel that discussing a topic on a public forum would be considered gossip.

We don’t know these people so any judgment made on them is pure assumption and ridiculous.

But if Nola is scandalized by these peoples assumed behavior we ought to reassure her that her faith has nothing to do with what others do. (Though society as a whole is hurt when we sin against each other. )

If Nola’s faith is shaken by this assumed behavior, it says that Nola is weak and we should help her stand strong. (not give her ammunition against these people.)

IF Nola’s faith is strengthen, then it only shows that she can persevere! And isn’t that what we are called to do?

 

[Rebecca_New]

ChristsSoldier:

Be Blessed,
I agree with Steven; however, I am not convinced of the ‘marriage’ here… (maybe I missed something)
Could they be Chastity Bands?
It seems a simple question might start a conversation that would bring light to the issue.
Peace,
CS

I think you are my “soul friend”-I too, have to be told by that person that they are SA . I refuse to go on looks etc. I went to a party and my friend had a crush on a man-when she was flirting with him he told her he was gay. She said “I am too, we have so much in common-I am always happy and its so great to meet someone else who is too.” So, we are not alone.

My boss is a man and he is SA. He is the best RN I have met in awhile. But whenever he is there, all I can think of is his sexual preference, and I am not able to forget that he is SA. I pray alot-I am not his conscience, but there is just such a flag there. I really do not know what to do except give the whole situation to Jesus in prayer. But to be in RCIA -that is really putting you on alert. Pray, pray, pray, and remember “But for the grace of God, go I.”

 

[LeahInancsi]

Jonah:

DITTO

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LeahInancsi,

On 7 I couldn’t agree with you more.

As far as 8 I don’t feel that discussing a topic on a public forum would be considered gossip.

We don’t know these people so any judgment made on them is pure assumption and ridiculous.

But if Nola is scandalized by these peoples assumed behavior we ought to reassure her that her faith has nothing to do with what others do. (Though society as a whole is hurt when we sin against each other. )

If Nola’s faith is shaken by this assumed behavior, it says that Nola is weak and we should help her stand strong. (not give her ammunition against these people.)

IF Nola’s faith is strengthen, then it only shows that she can persevere! And isn’t that what we are called to do?

If you’ll notice in my response to Gerry Hunter I said that I should have directed my response to the author of the thread. I feel that he/she and anyone she may be discussing this situation with are gossiping.

 

[Scout]

NOLA Catechumen:

I did not notice the rings at last week’s class, but one of my more observant classmates told me Saturday, then they wore them to mass. Although I have not spoken to them about it, our next meeting is tonight and I will ask about it after class, offer my prayers if it is true, and ask one of our priests for his thoughts.

Well, this was two days ago, so what happened after class? Has there been any updates?

Scout :tiphat:

 

[BryPGuy89]

ElizabethAnne:

There are only two types of sin: mortal and venial. Both masterbation and homosexual sex acts are disordered and meet the conditions for grave matter. Whether or not they are mortal sins would depend on consent and knowledge, but they both have the potential to be mortal sins.

How are they on two different levels?

Any sin is not just anyother sin, they’re classified as venial and mortal, but have different levels within that. Murder is not the same as masturbation, both mortal sins, but by far they are very different, expecially if you go to confession, one will definately be less of an issue to the priest than the other. Expecially if you do it often.
Does this make sence to you? Or is it just me who sees them as different?

 

[ElizabethAnne]

BryPGuy89:

Any sin is not just anyother sin, they’re classified as venial and mortal, but have different levels within that. Murder is not the same as masturbation, both mortal sins, but by far they are very different, expecially if you go to confession, one will definately be less of an issue to the priest than the other. Expecially if you do it often.
Does this make sence to you? Or is it just me who sees them as different?

I have never heard of different levels for different sins. I would not even know where to begin with “ranking” all the different types of sin in the world.

Do you know of any Church documents that support your view? If the Church really supports this ranking, I would like to know about it.

God bless.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

ElizabethAnne:

I have never heard of different levels for different sins. I would not even know where to begin with “ranking” all the different types of sin in the world.

Do you know of any Church documents that support your view? If the Church really supports this ranking, I would like to know about it.

God bless.

I’m not sure “ranking” sins is exactly to be found, but there is certainly some acknowledgement of relative gravity.

To begin with, we know that any mortal sin deprives the soul of sanctifying grace, and this sets it apart from venial sins. But even the Canons of the Church tacity acknowledge that some sins have worse consequences than others. Abortion, for instance, results in the latae sententiae excommunication of the sinner.

Perhaps it might be more accurate to say that, among mortal sins – all of which have the gravest spiritual consequences – some have been recognized to have even further consequences than some others?

With respect to the topic at hand, should (repeat, should) the couple have attempted to contract a “marriage”, there appears to be nothing more than confession and absolution required to remedy the situation, unlike some other offences, which require explicit consent of the local ordinary or the Holy See before absolution can be given.

Blessings

Gerry

 

[NOLA_Catechumen]

Regarding confirmation of the facts in my earlier posts – beyond the marriage issue (which I continue to assume, as the rings are still there), they’ve moved into a new house and are adopting a baby. The nursery is ready and they’re having a shower soon. The mother is in high school. I learned these and many other details waiting in line for confession (one of the partners was nearby, discussing the upcoming events with our religious ed. director).

For now, I am leaving it in God’s hands, and the hands of the preists (surely they know by now, as the religious ed director knows). But there are obvious problems down the road, and there will soon be a child involved. I want to get through this joyous season, but will discuss it with father soon thereafter, as this is a matter that could negatively impact the parish. Additional public statements and acts that conflict with the Church will be inevitable.

Please pray for our parish and the individuals involved.

On a related note, here’s what I found in the Catechism, plus a definition of complaisance from an online dictionary:

2480 Every word or attitude is forbidden which by flattery, adulation, or complaisance encourages and confirms another in malicious acts and perverse conduct. Adulation is a grave fault if it makes one an accomplice in another’s vices or grave sins. Neither the desire to be of service nor friendship justifies duplicitous speech. Adulation is a venial sin when it only seeks to be agreeable, to avoid evil, to meet a need, or to obtain legitimate advantages.

complaisance \com"plai*sance`, n. [F. complaisance. See Complaisant, and cf. Complacence.]
Disposition to please or oblige; obliging compliance with the wishes of others; a deportment indicative of a desire to please; courtesy; civility.