Married Southern Baptist Pastor to become a Priest

[brb3]

Paul was celibate (so is John)
Peter i think is the only one that has recorded evidence who was married
but many priests, bishops, even popes were married for a couple hundred of years.

Where is the evidence Paul was NEVER MARRIED ?

As a Pharisee in ‘good standing’ … it was needed to have married. Perhaps his wife left him when he became a spiritual son of Christ. Perhaps she died. We don’t know what happened to her … except we know Paul would not of divorced her after becoming a Christian. Separated perhaps

 

[Beth_Martin]

Are you suggesting that the Bible doesn’t support Catholic beliefs on scripture ?

No; I’m saying the person from what I have seen is not the brightest bulb in the ministerial world? He is wondering why there are so many denominations and what the truth really is and he is holding the Word of God in His hand!!

 

[Beth_Martin]

As a former Anglican, he can join the ordinariate. I know the ordinary of the ordinariate would quickly take him. That is why I called him and explained the ordinariate to him.
He was very interested and excited about it.

Unfortunately too many Anglicans and Catholics are ignorant of the Anglican Constitution.
Well, I use to be a baptist preacher a long time ago. Where is my soap box…now find a sign and a street corner!!

Fr. Mark

If you do not mind me asking; what made you go from being a Pastor who’s responsibility is to feed and protect the flock God has entrusted to you to becoming whatever a “Friar” or is that “father”? If “father” or priest, who is to minister daily offering up sacrifices by definition in the way the term is used in Scripture, which is a different responsibility from God’s perspective as written in Scripture? I’m just wondering; you do not need to give an answer if you do not feel like it. I promise not to badger you if you feel like answering.

 

[brb3]

No; I’m saying the person from what I have seen is not the brightest bulb in the ministerial world? He is wondering why there are so many denominations and what the truth really is and he is holding the Word of God in His hand!!

He seems plenty intelligent, a facile thinker, demonstrating sound logic. Since when does IQ rate highly with Christ ? Actually, scripture teaches it is often the poor, the uneducated, the children … who rate most high with Christ. Its the strength and conviction of our FAITH that Christ values. Look at the first 12 that he selected. They were not selected from the scribes or educated temple hierarchy.

The apostles were strictly forbidden to strike out on their own, using their own understandings … but, were told to wait for the H.S. to aid their preaching and speech. Even the well-educated Saul had to go into the desert for a 3 year period of instruction by the Holy Spirit.

Don’t worry about Cumbie. While he has long been a child of God, he only recently discovered the Church of the Apostles & Early Fathers and the H.S. that resides therein. As he told Marcus Grodi, his sole focus in life was the discovery of the Truth regarding the Church Jesus started. Those who seek the pearl of great price, will be rewarded for their efforts and faith.

 

[Beth_Martin]

He seems plenty intelligent, a facile thinker, demonstrating sound logic. Since when does IQ rate highly with Christ ? Actually, scripture teaches it is often the poor, the uneducated, the children … who rate most high with Christ. Its the strength and conviction of our FAITH that Christ values. Look at the first 12 that he selected. They were not selected from the scribes or educated temple hierarchy.

The apostles were strictly forbidden to strike out on their own, using their own understandings … but, were told to wait for the H.S. to aid their preaching and speech. Even the well-educated Saul had to go into the desert for a 3 year period of instruction by the Holy Spirit.

Don’t worry about Cumbie. While he has long been a child of God, he only recently discovered the Church of the Apostles & Early Fathers and the H.S. that resides therein. As he told Marcus Grodi, his sole focus in life was the discovery of the Truth regarding the Church Jesus started. Those who seek the pearl of great price, will be rewarded for their efforts and faith.

It is not for me to worry about him; he will reap what he sows like the rest of us and one day give an account, but I would not want to be asking what is the truth when I’m holding the Word of God in my hand; would you? That is all I am saying. I do not know him personally and have seen a few things on YouTube and he is more of an “ear tickler” than a preacher of the Word in my opinion. I could be wrong and I hope I am and I wish him all the best if he is a child of God.

 

[brb3]

It is not for me to worry about him; he will reap what he sows like the rest of us and one day give an account, but I would not want to be asking what is the truth when I’m holding the Word of God in my hand; would you? That is all I am saying. I do not know him personally and have seen a few things on YouTube and he is more of an “ear tickler” than a preacher of the Word in my opinion. I could be wrong and I hope I am and I wish him all the best if he is a child of God.

I hear what you are saying, I appreciate your concerns. However, Christ did teach no one can call Him their Lord, unless inspired by the H.S.

And, as you well know, many have held God’s Scripture in their hand and taught DIFFERENT gospel messages. All of us hold a certain percentage of errant beliefs. That is why the Catholic Church is so key to the Christian. Catholicism helps Protestants find the full, complete truth of Christ, and helps us get purged of those errant beliefs OTHERS taught us.

 

[MarkBrown]

If you do not mind me asking; what made you go from being a Pastor who’s responsibility is to feed and protect the flock God has entrusted to you to becoming whatever a “Friar” or is that “father”? If “father” or priest, who is to minister daily offering up sacrifices by definition in the way the term is used in Scripture, which is a different responsibility from God’s perspective as written in Scripture? I’m just wondering; you do not need to give an answer if you do not feel like it. I promise not to badger you if you feel like answering.

Don’t mind at all Beth.

I am still a pastor who is responsible to feed and protect the flock. An under shepard if you will. You seem to have a discontect to the duties and responsiblities of a pastor, priest or presbyter whether catholic or protestant. You post also reveals a lacking of knowledge about basic catholicism by your confusing of the title friar or father and the responsiblities of a priest. I am glad you are here and hope you have an open heart to learning, so you can atleast know what you accept and reject.

As an Anglican Priest and hopefully a Catholic one, I believe I am being obedient to God and Christ as written in scripture and revealed in the teachings of history, tradition and the Church. I am not acting contrary to God’s perspective. I know you as a baptistic person believe I am, for I once thought as you did. I disliked what I thought the Catholic Church believed and taught. When I honestly began reading scripture, history, canons and catechisms of the Church, I realized what I had been told about catholicism did not match up to what the Church truly believes and teaches. I examined my then current beliefs and found them to be “new” in most cases. Jewish theology, liturgy etc the early church drew heavily from did not match what I heard about the baptist church being a first century church. For example. Another is scriptural gymnastics to uphold dispensational teachings and proof reading of scripture to support then held beliefs. It was actually the presbyterians who taught me to look for the complete meaning of scripture, and to not take a verse here or there out of context to support new theology. My Grandfather, of blessed memory, was a SBC pastor and associational director for about 60 years. He taught me to not read one verse of scripture to try and support a theological position. But to read the entire chapter and the one before and after to understand what God is teaching.

When I read the entire canon of scripture, you know the books most protestants now reject, along with secular and church history…well the Holy Spirit opened my eyes. Much like the scales falling from Paul’s eyes in the Acts of the Apostles.

I did not like what I learned. Wanted to reject it, for to accept it meant a big part of me was in error. Through prayer, study and the guidance of the Holy Spirit objection after objection fell away. The Holy Spirit lead me home.

I came to faith in Christ as a baptist. Learned to love Christ as a baptist. I am glad and thank God I was born into a family of pastors who loved their children so much they taught them daily about salvation. I am also glad and thank God he has revealed to me the fullness of my faith as found in catholicism.

Blessings

Fr. Mark

 

[Beth_Martin]

I hear what you are saying, I appreciate your concerns. However, Christ did teach no one can call Him their Lord, unless inspired by the H.S.

And, as you well know, many have held God’s Scripture in their hand and taught DIFFERENT gospel messages. All of us hold a certain percentage of errant beliefs. That is why the Catholic Church is so key to the Christian. Catholicism helps Protestants find the full, complete truth of Christ, and helps us get purged of those errant beliefs OTHERS taught us.

Someone can call Him Lord and not be saved; it is the internal heart not the external profession.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven…” _______Matthew 7:21

The Bible and those few that are true shepherd worthy of double honor is the key to understanding the Word of God after one is saved. that has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church; if it did God would have written that in His word and He did not.

 

[Beth_Martin]

Don’t mind at all Beth.

I am still a pastor who is responsible to feed and protect the flock. An under shepherd if you will. You seem to have a disconnect to the duties and responsibilities of a pastor, priest or presbyter whether catholic or protestant. You post also reveals a lacking of knowledge about basic catholicism by your confusing of the title friar or father and the responsibilities of a priest. I am glad you are here and hope you have an open heart to learning, so you can at least know what you accept and reject.

As an Anglican Priest and hopefully a Catholic one, I believe I am being obedient to God and Christ as written in scripture and revealed in the teachings of history, tradition and the Church. I am not acting contrary to God’s perspective. I know you as a baptistic person believe I am, for I once thought as you did. I disliked what I thought the Catholic Church believed and taught. **When I honestly began reading scripture, history, canons and catechisms of the Church, **I realized what I had been told about catholicism did not match up to what the Church truly believes and teaches. I examined my then current beliefs and found them to be “new” in most cases. Jewish theology, liturgy etc the early church drew heavily from did not match what I heard about the baptist church being a first century church. For example. Another is scriptural gymnastics to uphold dispensational teachings and proof reading of scripture to support then held beliefs. It was actually the Presbyterians who taught me to look for the complete meaning of scripture, and to not take a verse here or there out of context to support new theology. My Grandfather, of blessed memory, was a SBC pastor and associational director for about 60 years. He taught me to not read one verse of scripture to try and support a theological position. But to read the entire chapter and the one before and after to understand what God is teaching.

When I read the entire canon of scripture, you know the books most protestants now reject, along with secular and church history…well the Holy Spirit opened my eyes. Much like the scales falling from Paul’s eyes in the Acts of the Apostles.

I did not like what I learned. Wanted to reject it, for to accept it meant a big part of me was in error. Through prayer, study and the guidance of the Holy Spirit objection after objection fell away. The Holy Spirit lead me home.

I came to faith in Christ as a baptist. Learned to love Christ as a baptist. I am glad and thank God I was born into a family of pastors who loved their children so much they taught them daily about salvation. I am also glad and thank God he has revealed to me the fullness of my faith as found in catholicism.

Blessings

Fr. Mark

Thank you for your expose from Baptist to Anglican Priest!! I now know Fr. is “father”. I wonder what “friar” would be? “friar Mark”???..LOL I have no clue.

May God bless you and your flock to which you are responsible!!

Beth

Apologize to the rest for the little sidebar here. Anyone else having really slow connection on this site besides me; I have high speed and this site is near dial-up speed compared to other sites and I wonder if it is just me.

 

[twopekinguys]

No; I’m saying the person from what I have seen is not the brightest bulb in the ministerial world? He is wondering why there are so many denominations and what the truth really is and he is holding the Word of God in His hand!!

Have you given any thought to the possibilty that with all of the interpretations of scripture out there, he was questioning which one is correct? Maybe he, like many others have found that the correct interpretation lies within the teachings of the Catholic Church.

After all, with 30,000 +/- denominations out there, that means there are 30,000 +/- interpretations. If there weren’t that many interpretations, there wouldn’t be that many denominations out there now would there?

Before you say there aren’t that many denoms out there, think about it. A denomination follows a particular line of thought which they themselves derive (or try to) from scripture.

We see all the time where churches split because someone doesn’t think the pastor is right on his “interpretation”, so they start their own church with their own interpretation.

 

[mark_a]

Well, I use to be a baptist preacher a long time ago.

Why don’t you post a link to your story for us??

 

[brb3]

The Bible and those few that are true shepherd worthy of double honor is the key to understanding the Word of God after one is saved. that has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church; if it did God would have written that in His word and He did not.

Beth …

You know better than to suggest the Church has ‘nothing’ to do with our salvations. If it didn’t … why would Christ have founded the Church, and brought forth his H.S. upon the Church @ Pentecost ?

I’m not saying we can’t be introduced to the Lord in non-Catholic Church settings. But, in order to grow in grace and be sustained in the faith … I don’t see how it is possible apart from Christ’s Church. Christianity is a social Gospel that is manifested in the Beatitudes … and initiated/preserved within the 7 Sacraments and fellowhip of the believers who faithfully meet as Christ taught the early disciples.

Recall how the early church would cast forth those who where not of them … in order to preserve the purity/orthodoxy of the faith. Everywhere Paul went … his first order of business was to establish a local Church. Paul teaches that the Church is the BEDROCK of the faith, not the Bible. The Bible came out of the Church.

As you know, it was several hundred years before the Bible Canon was agreed upon and codified by Catholics. Many people couldn’t read … and it was the orally communicated Traditions & Sacraments of the Church & that sustained those of faith. As example, did St. Stephen ever read the N.T. Bible ? Did Paul learn the faith by reading the N.T. ?

 

[Annie39]

I was for a short time involved in the Charismatic movement in the Lutheran Church so I found Michael Cumbie’s interview on the Journey Home program interesting. I attempted to find his story on the internet so that I could get the name of the blind (almost blind?) man who Mr. Cumbie said received the Holy Spirit. I didn’t find it. And I don’t remember which Pope prayed that there would be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Church. I wonder if he would be surprised to learn that that outpouring began in an heretical sect unconnected to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. At any the Holy Spirit is passed on when hands are laid on one. Did I read correctly that hands were laid on him in an Anglican Church. Can this person who passed this on be traced spiritually to the one true Church? Sorry I don’t have time to go back to read I’m just seeking out where this man received his authority to preach. I have many other questions as I research this. But this will have to suffice for tonight.

Annie

 

[twopekinguys]

I was for a short time involved in the Charismatic movement in the Lutheran Church so I found Michael Cumbie’s interview on the Journey Home program interesting. I attempted to find his story on the internet so that I could get the name of the blind (almost blind?) man who Mr. Cumbie said received the Holy Spirit. I didn’t find it. And I don’t remember which Pope prayed that there would be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Church. I wonder if he would be surprised to learn that that outpouring began in an heretical sect unconnected to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. At any the Holy Spirit is passed on when hands are laid on one. Did I read correctly that hands were laid on him in an Anglican Church. Can this person who passed this on be traced spiritually to the one true Church? Sorry I don’t have time to go back to read I’m just seeking out where this man received his authority to preach. I have many other questions as I research this. But this will have to suffice for tonight.

Annie

You can read about his background at his website:

mikecumbie.org/

As for the possibility of valid orders, that will be determined when he enters the seminary this fall I believe.

 

[Annie39]

You can read about his background at his website:

mikecumbie.org/

As for the possibility of valid orders, that will be determined when he enters the seminary this fall I believe.

I visited that site and cannot find the story that he told on the Journey Home page. I am looking for where he got the authority. Has the Church ever investigated the prophecies that come from his group to let us know if they are valid? Words from our Lady are investigated as you know. I would like to know who in the Charismatic movement has been given authority to prophesy. Do these prophets believe that the Holy Spirit gives them words to speak like they did when I was involved? BTW, I was “slain in the spirit” so to speak. I was in a line where I saw many strange things happen. When the fella came to me I tried with all my might not to fall. I dropped down, an unseen force did it. I was not laid flat like some people I sat hard on my posterior. Something definitely happened and it was not the action of the Holy Spirit. BTW, the guy "prophesied too. He told a man about his life that every one in the room knew to be false.

 

[twopekinguys]

I visited that site and cannot find the story that he told on the Journey Home page. I am looking for where he got the authority. Has the Church ever investigated the prophecies that come from his group to let us know if they are valid? Words from our Lady are investigated as you know. I would like to know who in the Charismatic movement has been given authority to prophesy. Do these prophets believe that the Holy Spirit gives them words to speak like they did when I was involved? BTW, I was “slain in the spirit” so to speak. I was in a line where I saw many strange things happen. When the fella came to me I tried with all my might not to fall. I dropped down, an unseen force did it. I was not laid flat like some people I sat hard on my posterior. Something definitely happened and it was not the action of the Holy Spirit. BTW, the guy "prophesied too. He told a man about his life that every one in the room knew to be false.

Did you read on his site where he was Baptist, Pentacostal, then “Old Catholic”?

Here is part of the definition of “Old Catholic”, from Wiki.

The Old Catholic Church is a Christian denomination originating with mainly German-speaking groups that split from the Holy See because they disagreed with the doctrine of papal infallibility promulgated by the First Vatican Council (1871).[1] The church is not in communion with the Holy See, though the Union of Utrecht of Old Catholic Churches is in full communion with the Anglican Communion[2] and a member of the World Council of Churches.

So, it is possible that his ordination in the “Old Catholic” church could be valid. As I stated in my previous post, I am sure that will be investigated when he joins/attends the seminary. Which would mean, if his ordination is considered valid, that could lessen the necessary seminary requirements. If his ordination is not considered valid, then I am sure he would have to attend longer.

 

[Annie39]

Did you read on his site where he was Baptist, Pentacostal, then “Old Catholic”?

Here is part of the definition of “Old Catholic”, from Wiki.

The Old Catholic Church is a Christian denomination originating with mainly German-speaking groups that split from the Holy See because they disagreed with the doctrine of papal infallibility promulgated by the First Vatican Council (1871).[1] The church is not in communion with the Holy See, though the Union of Utrecht of Old Catholic Churches is in full communion with the Anglican Communion[2] and a member of the World Council of Churches.

So, it is possible that his ordination in the “Old Catholic” church could be valid. As I stated in my previous post, I am sure that will be investigated when he joins/attends the seminary. Which would mean, if his ordination is considered valid, that could lessen the necessary seminary requirements. If his ordination is not considered valid, then I am sure he would have to attend longer.

I’m not concerned if he has valid priestly orders. I’d like to know who gave him and all the men and women in his group to act all they do? Who laid hands on them? He says that he got his charismatic gifts from people not in union with the Church. I sincerely believe that you don’t understand the seriousness of this.

 

[brb3]

Who laid hands on them? He says that he got his charismatic gifts from people not in union with the Church. I sincerely believe that you don’t understand the seriousness of this.

Protestant Baptism is accepted by the Cath. Church. So, why would not Protestant Confirmation, via hands, not also be efficacious … and able to convey spiritual gifts ?

 

[JRKH]

I’m not concerned if he has valid priestly orders. I’d like to know who gave him and all the men and women in his group to act all they do? Who laid hands on them? He says that he got his charismatic gifts from people not in union with the Church. I sincerely believe that you don’t understand the seriousness of this.

The Church does not limit or deny that the Holy Spirit can confer spiritual gifts on those not in perfect union with the Church.
From the Catachism:
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

As far as his validity etc. This is best left up to those who are in personal contact with him - His spiritual director and those involved with his dicernment to the priesthood. I tis certanily not up to us here at CAF to determine these things.

Peace
James

 

[brb3]

Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”