"Marry Him and Be Submissive - "One Italian Wife’s Countercultural Message to Women

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starshiptrooper said:
Though to ask Beyoncé a question, if you like it why does it benefit a man to put a ring on it? Answer, it does not.
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Then don’t.🤷 You aren’t hurting anyone by staying single. But why do these guys who insist they will never marry hang so much of their identity on it? If you’re happy and comfortable with your choices, then accept that you’ve made them and move on. If you don’t want to be married, it shouldn’t take up an inordinate amount of your thoughts.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
I am glad to know I’m not the only one who has noticed this tendency. I also agree with Sarcelle that the same attitude is prevalent along white supremacists.

The idea seems to be, “Well even if my life sucks, at least I know I’m inherently better than X because I’m of the superior gender/race/other demographic!”
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What about Black Supremacists and radical Islam?
 
Elena321 said:
Exactly right.

Frankly,his reasoning is flawed.
Both husband and wife-in fact all humans-need mutual respect.
How can someone love someone if they do not treat them with respect?
In Slavic culture (and I’m sure in America etc culture too) we are taught as children to be respectful towards people and especially towards elderly people.
It isn’t gender exclusive.
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Surely that sort of patriarchal model would only work if the man was 100% morally perfect? Both the man and woman are humans who will sometimes need patience and forgiveness rather than unconditional respect whatever their actions. You can show respect for a person without having to respect everything they do.
 
I have to admit that the start of this book “Marry Him and Be Submissive” turns my stomach … and I’m pretty old fashioned in many ways.

My husband and I married 33 years ago and we have a 50/50 relationship … we both listen to each other and give our opinions … when a decision needs to be made, we listen to each other and try to just make the best decision … we don’t give either one of our opinions more credibility … we do what is best in that particular situation … no matter which one of us came up with the better idea.

This has worked for us for 33 years … and we are closer now than we ever have been … it seems our love grows stronger each year … and at this point we would die for each other.

The only males I plan on being submissive to in my life are the Holy Trinity … the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit … that’s it for me.
 
ConfusedLucy said:
Surely that sort of patriarchal model would only work if the man was 100% morally perfect? Both the man and woman are humans who will sometimes need patience and forgiveness rather than unconditional respect whatever their actions. You can show respect for a person without having to respect everything they do.
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Well, of course. You can love someone with loving everything they do, too.

I don’t see call as a contradiction.
 
buffalo said:
Indeed. But respect motivates the husband and love the wife. In other words affects their feelings toward the other the most.
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???

And your evidence for that would be?

Several women have just told you in the past several pages that they need respect or that they can’t imagine love without respect.

I think it’s quite nonsensical to try to tease apart love and respect. Even when we are dealing with a person who isn’t functioning at a normal adult level (a child, an adult with an intellectual disabiliy, an elderly person with dementia), real love means treating them with all of the respect that we can muster. It’s impossible to be loving in any kind of complete sense while being patronizing or condescenting.

Consider, for example, our love for God. In that case, our love and our respect are very closely entwined.

Respect for human dignity was kind of a big deal for John Paul II and is a big deal in Catholic thought.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/torture/torture-is-a-moral-issue-study-guide-chapter-one.cfm
 
Xantippe said:
???

And your evidence for that would be?

Several women have just told you in the past several pages that they need respect or that they can’t imagine love without respect.

I think it’s quite nonsensical to try to tease apart love and respect. Even when we are dealing with a person who isn’t functioning at a normal adult level (a child, an adult with an intellectual disabiliy, an elderly person with dementia), real love means treating them with all of the respect that we can muster. It’s impossible to be loving in any kind of complete sense while being patronizing or condescenting.

Consider, for example, our love for God. In that case, our love and our respect are very closely entwined.

Respect for human dignity was kind of a big deal for John Paul II and is a big deal in Catholic thought.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/torture/torture-is-a-moral-issue-study-guide-chapter-one.cfm
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I will speak for myself as a male. My air supply is respect. It is very hard to return love without that which makes me tick.
 
buffalo said:
I will speak for myself as a male. My air supply is respect. It is very hard to return love without that which makes me tick.
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Why do you assume that if you as a male need respect, that means that women don’t need respect?

That would be like assuming that if you as a male need air, food, and water, that women don’t.
 
buffalo said:
Indeed. But respect motivates the husband and love the wife. In other words affects their feelings toward the other the most.
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I don’t really see this as being the case,at least not in Australia.

There are not many women here who say or hold the view that “I don’t care if a guy treats me disrespectfully,as long as he loves me”.

Sure,there are some women that will go out with any guy regardless of whether he treats them with respect or not,but usually those women have some issue in their past such as absent fathers or poor father role models or they have a poor sense of their own worth.

Women are just as motivated by respect as men are. For example,if you are a single woman and looking for a good guy to marry,you think to yourself “I want to meet a guy who is kind and respectful,treats me (and others) with respect…” etc
 
Love without respect from a spouse would be meaningless to me personally. I’d probably feel like a trophy wife.
 
Just a random thought…my idea of respect seems more “masculine” (to some of yall i guess). I crave respect, but it’s not just basic respect ie valuing opinions, not objectifying her etc. It’s more of admiring my strength, my skills, supporting me etc

Would also like to suggest that maybe the reason why men and women feel that way is because men have been brought up as the stronger sex, the provider etc. So he feels validated by getting respect. Women grew up being exposed to models, makeup, weight loss, fairytales etc. That her job is to be beautiful so she might want to be loved to feel validated. This is of course a very general thought, but not illogical, imo.

But then again…most people I know would say it’s difficult to separate respect from love soo 🤷 the whole idea of “love and respect” is just bogus to me
 
ConfusedLucy said:
**Love without respect from a spouse would be meaningless to me personally. ** I’d probably feel like a trophy wife.
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I would find it infuriating.

Being treated with disrespect (however affectionately) would be extremely corrosive to our marriage.

(Note that affection without respect is also really bad in parent-adult child relationships.)
 
I have a teen daughter, and one of the things I’ve noticed about her is that she has a HUGE need for respect. Attempting to parent her just with love would be a huge disaster.

How I’ve got on as well as I have is to show her a lot of respect–while insisting that she show the same respect to the rest of the family.

I think anyone who demands respect while being disrespectful is likely in for a lot of unpleasant surprises.
 
Xantippe said:
I would find it infuriating.

Being treated with disrespect (however affectionately) would be extremely corrosive to our marriage.

(Note that affection without respect is also really bad in parent-adult child relationships.)
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It kind of makes me think of men who say they love their wives and yet it doesn’t motivate them to treat them well because they don’t actually respect them and their feelings. Or of abusive parents who feel love for their child in their heart and yet it doesn’t translate to actually caring for the child and meeting their needs. Love isn’t always enough.
 
I have noticed that women find it easy to love, but respect is earned.
I think the ‘office’ or vocation of husband is to be respected.

A lady once told me about her late husband, “I loved him with my whole heart, I love him still, but I lost respect for him and that was the end of our marriage.”
 
egretps said:
I have noticed that women find it easy to love, but respect is earned.
I think the ‘office’ or vocation of husband is to be respected.

A lady once told me about her late husband, “I loved him with my whole heart, I love him still, but I lost respect for him and that was the end of our marriage.”
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How nice is it to be a wife who doesn’t have her husband’s faith and respect? Not very, I would think.

See Proverbs 31: “A good wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.”

“Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.”

“Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all.””

That to me sounds A LOT like respect.
 
egretps said:
I have noticed that women find it easy to love, but respect is earned.
I think the ‘office’ or vocation of husband is to be respected.

A lady once told me about her late husband, “I loved him with my whole heart, I love him still, but I lost respect for him and that was the end of our marriage.”
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No one is stating that husbands don’t deserve respect. The issue most women are contesting here is the idea that wives don’t.

If being a husband is a vocation, then so is being a wife. Do you think that vocation also deserves respect?

I also wonder if people are using “respect” to mean different things.

The “complementarian” seems to think a wife should respect her husband the way she’d respect someone in authority over her, similar to the way a child respects a parent, but that a wife only deserves from the husband, the amount of basic “respect for being a human” that a child deserves from a parent.
 
Xantippe said:
How nice is it to be a wife who doesn’t have her husband’s faith and respect? Not very, I would think.

See Proverbs 31: “A good wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.”

“Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.”

“Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her: 29 “Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all.””

That to me sounds A LOT like respect.
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That’s why having not read the book (big caveat), I’m inclined to give the benefit of the doubt and say that they don’t actually mean love and respect the way we do, nor does saying men want “respect” preclude them from wanting and needing love too (and vice versa for women).

Even the most traditional, old-school, rural men don’t go around teaching their sons to love their mothers/sisters/wives without bothering to show them respect. Among normal people, that’s unthinkable. And although the internet doesn’t always reflect it, most people are fairly normal.

The Redpill stuff is amusing, but I’m afraid it has the unfortunate side effect of making people, mostly women, unduly defensive when any mention of gendered traits comes up. That defensiveness is understandable, but it makes it seem like the only alternative to the calculating, systematic dehumanization of the wife is a cold, practical, 50/50, overly guarded “partnership”. And frankly, that sounds almost as bad.
 
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