"Marry Him and Be Submissive - "One Italian Wife’s Countercultural Message to Women

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NCR: "The title of the book, and particularly the word “submissive,” is provocative. Why did you choose it?

**AUTHOR: **"I didn’t want to be provocative by choosing that word. My spiritual director used to tell me I had to be just like Mary, like the Mary in the Miraculous Medal: She has her hands opened, and she gives graces. He said that I had to have my hands open to receive what I was receiving from my husband, but my hands had to be open; I didn’t have to check first if they were good enough. I just had to receive without looking, with hands open.

Also, just as Mary, with her feet, kills the serpent, so must I kill my tongue — because I don’t always have to comment, to criticize my husband. So he said in that way I could be a good wife — not that I had to be submissive for the sake of being submissive, but because I had to stop being so critical, so unbearable, as I was at the beginning of marriage."

ncregister.com/daily-news…ssage-to-women

Thinking of buying this book. Anyone here read it? Thoughts?
 
NCR: "The title of the book, and particularly the word “submissive,” is provocative. Why did you choose it?

**AUTHOR: **"I didn’t want to be provocative by choosing that word. My spiritual director used to tell me I had to be just like Mary, like the Mary in the Miraculous Medal: She has her hands opened, and she gives graces. He said that I had to have my hands open to receive what I was receiving from my husband, but my hands had to be open; I didn’t have to check first if they were good enough. I just had to receive without looking, with hands open.

Also, just as Mary, with her feet, kills the serpent, so must I kill my tongue — because I don’t always have to comment, to criticize my husband. So he said in that way I could be a good wife — not that I had to be submissive for the sake of being submissive, but because I had to stop being so critical, so unbearable, as I was at the beginning of marriage."

ncregister.com/daily-news…ssage-to-women

Thinking of buying this book. Anyone here read it? Thoughts?
It does make sense in any relationship though.

To be able to hold one’s tongue before uttering something one might regret later on is valuable for both husband and wife to remember.

It’s part of being an adult.
 
The link does not seem to be working.

I always get wary about resources about submission. Everyone has different ideas of it, everyone has different marriages. So I don’t know if stuff like that could be beneficial.

But if it is anything like what she said in your original post, it sounds like good advice that anybody-male or female-should take. 👍
 
The link does not seem to be working.

I always get wary about resources about submission. Everyone has different ideas of it, everyone has different marriages. So I don’t know if stuff like that could be beneficial.

But if it is anything like what she said in your original post, it sounds like good advice that anybody-male or female-should take. 👍
I copied it directly from National Catholic Register on their facebook page. Maybe it doesn’t transfer. Perhaps it’s one of those newspapers where we have to pay to read. :confused:
 
It sounds like a really interesting book.

I don’t think there’s anything controversial about the book.The only thing that might sound “controversial” is the title due to different people’s assumptions when they hear the term submissive.

Her advice for women to be patient and not to pick at or criticise their husband is good and she seems to have a correct understanding of the term “submit”.
She doesn’t seem to be promoting any of the negative connotations sometimes associated with the word “submissive” (eg:being doormat,submission for submission’s sake,being mindless,substituting husbands opinions for your own,childlike dependency etc).
 
Feminists are trying to get it banned. Italians love it. I think it would be worth a read. The author is a journalist, and says its not about being a doormat.

It sounds a bit like that how to be a 1950s wife.
 
The problem I tend to have with this sort of thing is that I usually find these gender stereotypes very simplistic. There are plenty of women who can have a single focus and achieve great things, this isn’t exclusively male. Where does it leave men and women who don’t fit into these gender roles? Have they failed?
 
The problem I tend to have with this sort of thing is that I usually find these gender stereotypes very simplistic. There are plenty of women who can have a single focus and achieve great things, this isn’t exclusively male. Where does it leave men and women who don’t fit into these gender roles? Have they failed?
Yes, and why are all the improvements always directed at us? Where’s the book reminding men to pay more attention to detail and be more considerate?
 
The problem I tend to have with this sort of thing is that I usually find these gender stereotypes very simplistic. There are plenty of women who can have a single focus and achieve great things, this isn’t exclusively male. Where does it leave men and women who don’t fit into these gender roles? Have they failed?
Define “great things”. Women have been free to do pretty much what they want for over 50 years now. Where are the great companies founded and built by women? Where are the Nobel Prize winners in the hard sciences? Where are the amazing inventions one would expect from this huge infusion of human capital? Nearly non-existent.

Civilization is fragile. To survive, it doesn’t need women sitting in cubicles en-masse making PowerPoint presentations whilst strangers raise their kids. It needs them bringing up the next generation of responsible, well adjusted adults. There have always and will always be exceptions. Not everyone is called to marriage and raising a family. But I would posit that the vast majority of people who deny their gender roles (as you describe them) have failed, and they know it, at least subconsciously. It’s not for nothing that more than 1 in 4 women in the U.S. are on some type of anti depressant. I’d probably need to chomp Xanax too if I had to drop my kids off at the day care farm and head to a meaningless, soul crushing job just so I could drive a better car, have a bigger house, whatever.
 
Define “great things”. Women have been free to do pretty much what they want for over 50 years now. Where are the great companies founded and built by women? Where are the Nobel Prize winners in the hard sciences? Where are the amazing inventions one would expect from this huge infusion of human capital? Nearly non-existent.

Civilization is fragile. To survive, it doesn’t need women sitting in cubicles en-masse making PowerPoint presentations whilst strangers raise their kids. It needs them bringing up the next generation of responsible, well adjusted adults. There have always and will always be exceptions. Not everyone is called to marriage and raising a family. But I would posit that the vast majority of people who deny their gender roles (as you describe them) have failed, and they know it, at least subconsciously. It’s not for nothing that more than 1 in 4 women in the U.S. are on some type of anti depressant. I’d probably need to chomp Xanax too if I had to drop my kids off at the day care farm and head to a meaningless, soul crushing job just so I could drive a better car, have a bigger house, whatever.
As opposed to the opiates housewives were hooked on to make it through their day? Or the opiates and meth killing (mostly men) today? Or alcoholism, which is again more common in men, even high achieving professionals? What about pack a day smokers? Or, people who essentially live stoned? There’s also the rising suicide rate…

If you’re looking at drug use to determine success, Xanax is the least of it and working and stay at home women are both doing pretty well, comparatively. If you’re looking at drug use to figure out who’s happy, then look around and see that no one has an answer and we all have to do the best we can for ourselves and our families.
 
Define “great things”. Women have been free to do pretty much what they want for over 50 years now. Where are the great companies founded and built by women? Where are the Nobel Prize winners in the hard sciences? Where are the amazing inventions one would expect from this huge infusion of human capital? Nearly non-existent.

Civilization is fragile. To survive, it doesn’t need women sitting in cubicles en-masse making PowerPoint presentations whilst strangers raise their kids. It needs them bringing up the next generation of responsible, well adjusted adults. There have always and will always be exceptions. Not everyone is called to marriage and raising a family. But I would posit that the vast majority of people who deny their gender roles (as you describe them) have failed, and they know it, at least subconsciously. It’s not for nothing that more than 1 in 4 women in the U.S. are on some type of anti depressant. I’d probably need to chomp Xanax too if I had to drop my kids off at the day care farm and head to a meaningless, soul crushing job just so I could drive a better car, have a bigger house, whatever.
The author of the book in the OP is a working woman and (as I recall from a previous thread) she says her husband helps out a lot.

Also, if a woman is supposed to “marry him and be submissive” and he says to keep working, then that probably means continuing to work. If you look around real life and the internet, it’s really not that difficult to find women who are working because their husbands insist that they do so. (My husband, for example, is very eager for me to start helping with our third set of private school tuitions.) There are not a lot of men happy with the idea of their wives never working a day after the first baby.

Furthermore, I think you should have a look at a list of female Nobelists in the sciences. While it is true that there are not a lot of female physics Nobelists (2), there are a few more female chemistry Nobelists (4–two of them are Curie family members!), and then there’s a fair number in the “physiology or medicine” category (12). Interestingly while all but one of the chemistry and physics Nobel prizes awarded to women were pre-1965, only one of the medicine/physiology prizes was awarded pre-1965. Here’s the distribution of medicine/physiology prizes awarded to women: 1940s (1), 1970s (1), 1980s (3), 1990s (1), oughts (4), teens (2). To my eye, it looks like there hasn’t been a lot of movement of women into the tippy top of research chemistry and physics over the last 50 years BUT that is exactly what has happened in medicine/physiology. While there is a lot of complaining/bragging about the lack of women in STEM, the people who do so are ignoring biology and medicine, which are fields that have seen a tremendous influx of women.

Also, why does “great things” need to mean the stuff that you personally value (being a CEO or inventor)? Those people are very unusual, even among men. There was only one Steve Jobs, there is only one Elon Musk, etc. It really is not true that employment consists purely of the two categories you describe–female Power Point presenters versus world-changing male CEOs, Nobel prize winners and inventors.

I used to be just as gungho as anybody about how every mother ought to be home with her kids, but then at some point as a SAHM, I started realizing that why yes, I did appreciate all these female preschool teachers, school teachers, principals, psychologists, physical therapists, occupational therapists, nurses, pediatricians, OB/GYNs, mammogram techs, ultrasound techs, phlebotomists and lab techs, x-ray techs, etc. who are making my and my family’s life better than they would be if all of those people just stayed home. (Really–I do not want a male mammographer or lactation consultant!) That, too, is civilization, just as much as it is to make a really thin cell phone or a snazzy electric car.

Furthermore, your view that employment of mothers causes female depression is a bit lacking in empirical grounding. For one thing, women just are very prone to depression.

mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/in-depth/depression/art-20047725

If you’ll look at that link, you’ll notice that female depression seems to be largely driven by hormonal issues–puberty, pregnancy, postpartum and perimenopause are all associated with depression.

Interestingly, if anything, being a SAHM is associated with more, not less depression among women and depression seems to be an occupational disease of SAHMs.

“The study found that 28 percent of stay-at-home moms reported depression a lot of the day when asked how they were feeling the day before, but only 17 percent of employed moms did. Of the group, 26 percent of SAHMs said they experienced depression, vs. just 16 percent of working moms. And 41 percent of the at-homers reported worry, compared to only 34 percent of their counterparts.”

metroparent.com/daily/parenting/parenting-issues-tips/stay-home-moms-depressed-angry-sad-study-says/

Obviously, there’s a casuality issue there (women with depression or other serious problems may be unable to work, triggering deeper depression), but this does demonstrate that staying home is not some sort of mental health cure-all for women and that SAHM’s mental health is something that we should be a lot more concerned about.
 
As opposed to the opiates housewives were hooked on to make it through their day? Or the opiates and meth killing (mostly men) today? Or alcoholism, which is again more common in men, even high achieving professionals? What about pack a day smokers? Or, people who essentially live stoned? There’s also the rising suicide rate…
Yep.
 
The problem I tend to have with this sort of thing is that I usually find these gender stereotypes very simplistic. There are plenty of women who can have a single focus and achieve great things, this isn’t exclusively male. Where does it leave men and women who don’t fit into these gender roles? Have they failed?
That’s a good point. Most material on gender roles are 99% pseudo-psychology. Just broad generalisations on cultural norms. Which is why I always get uneasy. To their standards, apparently I have a masculine mindset, lol.

I don’t think specific marriage advice based on gender stereotypes helpful. Every marriage is different, unlike what red pill bros and uber conservatives think. I think it would do OP good if she reads the book and take it with a grain of salt. Look at her marriage and then apply whatever it needs to be applied. If it ain’t broken, don’t fix it

I read reviews and it did have good and not so good advice, but apparently there were sentences that could have been phrased better (i think there was a sentence saying that when your husband talks to you, treat it as if God was talking to you).
 
Define “great things”. Women have been free to do pretty much what they want for over 50 years now. Where are the great companies founded and built by women? Where are the Nobel Prize winners in the hard sciences? Where are the amazing inventions one would expect from this huge infusion of human capital? Nearly non-existent.

Civilization is fragile. To survive, it doesn’t need women sitting in cubicles en-masse making PowerPoint presentations whilst strangers raise their kids. It needs them bringing up the next generation of responsible, well adjusted adults. There have always and will always be exceptions. Not everyone is called to marriage and raising a family. But I would posit that the vast majority of people who deny their gender roles (as you describe them) have failed, and they know it, at least subconsciously. It’s not for nothing that more than 1 in 4 women in the U.S. are on some type of anti depressant. I’d probably need to chomp Xanax too if I had to drop my kids off at the day care farm and head to a meaningless, soul crushing job just so I could drive a better car, have a bigger house, whatever.
Ha, yes, I can absolutely do anything. Except I can’t go back to school because childcare is so expensive. And any job I could get without a degree wouldn’t even cover daycare. My husband is getting his degree right now while also working 12 hour shifts. I don’t see anyone calling him selfish for spending so much time away. Literally my only choice is to stay home or take out loans to pay $1300/m childcare costs while I’m in school. I have a practical degree with a 3.6 from a top 20 university, and yet my only viable option is to stay home.
 
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