Marrying syro-malabar orphans

[Norseman82]

OP,

I was originally going to post about how some Catholics put “the official Catholic view of marriage” on such a high pedestal that it becomes unobtainable for all but a few, about how economic security was a factor in previous generations (so were all those marriages invalid as well when a father asked a potential son-in-law how he planned to support a wife and children), about how all giving is just as dysfunctional as all taking, and how many actually have to look overseas because Americans are making themselves less available for marriage, etc.

However, when I looked at your posting history about the lady that wanted to commit adultery and you prior questions about the priesthood, as well as the following post in JanPawelII’s thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14659325&postcount=53

I honestly think this “orphanage” fixation is kooky and creepy (especially when you post it as advice in other posters’ threads). Fill out an application for a wife? You’re not adopting a border collie to herd sheep!

Out of curiosity, are you in the US? Europe? Asia? Latin America? (I notice the spelling/grammar errors, which is why I ask). I can understand a cultural /language difference as well as that depending on where you live there may not be many (if any) Catholics to choose from, but if that is the case please make the effort to not come across as creepy to the Americans here - from previous threads I’ve read I’ve seen the expectation to adhere to American values / way of thinking / frame of reference.

 

[Brassring]

That is not Catholic teaching. In fact, Karl Keating debunked it in his e-letter “The Non-Existent Prince Charming”.

I’m not saying that “there’s one person for everyone”. I’m saying it’s impossible to discern the vocation without being in the relationship with, or at least having met, the person you intend to marry. And, discerning the vocation is something the couple (that already exists) should do together. It’s not a one-sided thing.

It sounds like OP is getting the cart before the horse because he’s got a carnal itch he wants to scratch.

 

[Norseman82]

I’m not saying that “there’s one person for everyone”. I’m saying it’s impossible to discern the vocation without being in the relationship with, or at least having met, the person you intend to marry. And, discerning the vocation is something the couple (that already exists) should do together. It’s not a one-sided thing.

It sounds like OP is getting the cart before the horse because he’s got a carnal itch he wants to scratch.

Actually, there was an article by Mary Beth Bonacci that stated that most people are called to marriage, but because the “pool has been poisoned” many may have a hard time finding a suitable spouse:

catholicexchange.com/is-the-single-life-a-vocation

Additionally, CCC 1603 states that the vocation to marriage is written in our very nature as it comes from the hand of God (so, if there is such a thing as a default vocation, CCC 1603 implies that it is marriage).

 

[Brassring]

OP, you should spend more time talking to Norseman82. They’ll have all the answers you seek.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

OK. Not sure if you are trolling or not OP. If you aren’t… Well, it’s never a good sign if people suspect you of being a troll because they aren’t sure if you are being serious.

OP, if you can’t find a woman to love who will love you for who you are and not to get out of a difficult life situation, don’t get married.

Just because you think you are attractive doesn’t mean you deserve an attractive mate. Looks shouldn’t matter at all in Catholic marriages. I imagine that it would be unlikely that a good catholic woman would want to marry you with your attitude, to be blunt.

While marrying for looks is shallow it might still be a valid marriage, as you state. However I doubt an 18 year old orphan marrying to get out of poverty would be considered valid by the Catholic church. Besides, from what you have said here, you aren’t ready for marriage.

I’m not trying to be mean. Hopefully you can see that the problem lies with you and not the women available to you. Fix your attitude and your problem will fix itself.

 

[willymonfrete]

This may seem a strange question but have you ever actually interacted with a woman? We are people too.

Ive had 3 girlfriends/relationships .I dont fornicate anymore since Ive come back to Christ.

 

[willymonfrete]

looks are important in a relationship.I am not going to marry someone Im repulsed by.I do not need a VS model,just a decent looking woman.If I looked like danny devito I would get rejected by all women for the most part,including less attractive ones.

5+/10 are good for me.my standards arent high.

 

[willymonfrete]

OP,

I was originally going to post about how some Catholics put “the official Catholic view of marriage” on such a high pedestal that it becomes unobtainable for all but a few, about how economic security was a factor in previous generations (so were all those marriages invalid as well when a father asked a potential son-in-law how he planned to support a wife and children), about how all giving is just as dysfunctional as all taking, and how many actually have to look overseas because Americans are making themselves less available for marriage, etc.

However, when I looked at your posting history about the lady that wanted to commit adultery and you prior questions about the priesthood, as well as the following post in JanPawelII’s thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14659325&postcount=53

I honestly think this “orphanage” fixation is kooky and creepy (especially when you post it as advice in other posters’ threads). Fill out an application for a wife? You’re not adopting a border collie to herd sheep!

Out of curiosity, are you in the US? Europe? Asia? Latin America? (I notice the spelling/grammar errors, which is why I ask). I can understand a cultural /language difference as well as that depending on where you live there may not be many (if any) Catholics to choose from, but if that is the case please make the effort to not come across as creepy to the Americans here - from previous threads I’ve read I’ve seen the expectation to adhere to American values / way of thinking / frame of reference.

Im half american (of choctaw amerindian and louisiana creole descent)and my dad is dutch but I grew up in the netherlands.everybody at mass is old or too young and they arent looking for relationships,they are likely married.even the lady I go to church with every week said its VERY hard to find a practicing catholic wife here.posters saying I should marry a woman im not attracted to wouldnt say the same thing vice-versa.why the double standard?

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Im half american (of choctaw amerindian and louisiana creole descent)and my dad is dutch but I grew up in the netherlands.everybody at mass is old or too young and they arent looking for relationships,they are likely married.even the lady I go to church with every week said its VERY hard to find a practicing catholic wife here.posters saying I should marry a woman im not attracted to wouldnt say the same thing vice-versa.why the double standard?

Nobody is saying you should marry someone you aren’t attracted to. They are saying you shouldn’t marry at all with your current outlook.

Ranking people based on looks and whining because you can’t find a good looking woman, finding women who fall below your subjective ranking system ‘repulsive’ indicates a flaw you need to correct before you are ready for marriage. Attraction is important but if I’m being honest I can’t say I’ve ever met a man my age or thereabouts who I would ever have deemed ugly or repulsive or utterly off the cards based on appearance alone. I have preferences for sure, but looks are just not on my radar as some sort of almighty deal breaker.

I’m sure plenty of women who fall below your standards are happily married to men who love them because they fell in love with the woman and not how symmetrical her face was.

 

[willymonfrete]

Nobody is saying you should marry someone you aren’t attracted to. They are saying you shouldn’t marry at all with your current outlook.

Ranking people based on looks and whining because you can’t find a good looking woman, finding women who fall below your subjective ranking system ‘repulsive’ indicates a flaw you need to correct before you are ready for marriage. Attraction is important but if I’m being honest I can’t say I’ve ever met a man my age or thereabouts who I would ever have deemed ugly or repulsive or utterly off the cards based on appearance alone. I have preferences for sure, but looks are just not on my radar as some sort of almighty deal breaker.

I’m sure plenty of women who fall below your standards are happily married to men who love them because they fell in love with the woman and not how symmetrical her face was.

so how do you reckon I get legal sex?marriage is a guard against fornication first and foremost imo.

my marriage will still be valid,even if it doesn’t fit your personal ideal.

I am happy for those women.I just dont want to be among those men.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

-]/-]

Ive had 3 girlfriends/relationships .I dont fornicate anymore since Ive come back to Christ.

When you were dating these women were they people to you or just to fulfil your needs? If you had a daughter and she was facing poverty would you be happy for her to sell herself as a wife?

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Hi.I’m 24.studiying to be a message therapist.lookswise Im about a 7.5(resemble DJ willy monfret a bit),5’8,gracile build.

I’ve tried catholic dating sites but all the women are either older than me or not that attractive or too far away.I dont know how I would meet a woman in a church.

in india it is possible to marry a Christian orphan girl,after they become 18 they seek to get them married to a man that can provide for them.do you think this is a good idea?would they allow them to marry foreigners if you are practicing catholic and can provide for them?

should I go to india and talk about this to priests there?could they help me?

I can sympathize with it being hard to find a practicing Catholic woman.

For what it is worth, I found my current girlfriend on Catholicmatch.com. Now, you said the women you have seen on Catholic dating sites are either not that attractive or too far away. Nonsense… You are willing to Travel to India to get a wife. I do not know where you live but if you do a search on Cm.com for women your age in a 1000 mile radius from your city, there is no way in heck you are not going to see some drop dead gorgeous women and also a lot of women who are not model looking but super, super, attractive.

Have you seriously tried this? Also, how long did you try CM.com? If you have not tried this site then you have not tried Catholic dating sites. And it takes a while sometime to find a date on CM.com. Probably got one date for every 100 women I messaged and it took about 3 1/2 active years on the site to find a girl who wanted to be with me. AND we were friends for a year before out first date (we hung out a few times before that date because we only live about 45 miles from each other) then we dated for a month then we became exclusive and have been exclusive for 4 months. And I am 32 years old. You are 24, why the big rush? Sometimes it takes time to find someone. I get urges too. I am human. Me and my girl have temptation to fornicate. But we do not rush into marriage because of it. There are worse things then having to resist those temptations. Marriage is not a cure for repressed sexual desires.

You can obviously do what you want but I will say that at the age of 24 the part of your brain responsible for right decision making is not even fully mature yet. You have about a year or two more for that. I do not think it is a good idea to seek out a wife from a foreign land who is marrying you just to be supported. A girl your age is still very young and she may later regret having to marry out of the need to be supported instead of for love. The point is, you never know. You do not know that her love will grow for you. And as far as invalid marriages. How do you know that 10 years down the line when this girl is mature that she wont say “I only married this man because I felt I had to in order to survive. It was not 100% of my free will. I did not really want to marry him” guess what? THAT IS grounds for a annulment. Her choice in the matter was not without cohersion of some kind. Even if a girl was to get pregnant and feel she has to marry the guy who got her pregnant so she goes through with a marriage but later seeks a annulment on the grounds that she did not really want to get married but only did it because she felt she had to because she was pregnant, THAT is also grounds for annulment. Your future wife would definitely have a case. She may even get to retain her citizenship and re marry. Where would that leave you?

I do not think your idea is a good one at all. I would stick with Catholicmatch.com. Also, give women a chance. Dude… there has been more than one occasion where I only though that a girl was okay looking by her pictures but when we met in real life she was WAY, WAY prettier that I thought that she was. Some women just do not look that great in pictures, they look better in person. Then some girls look great in pictures but then in person they are average looking at best. So, give women a chance. Good luck.

 

[willymonfrete]

I can sympathize with it being hard to find a practicing Catholic woman.

For what it is worth, I found my current girlfriend on Catholicmatch.com. Now, you said the women you have seen on Catholic dating sites are either not that attractive or too far away. Nonsense… You are willing to Travel to India to get a wife. I do not know where you live but if you do a search on Cm.com for women your age in a 1000 mile radius from your city, there is no way in heck you are not going to see some drop dead gorgeous women and also a lot of women who are not model looking but super, super, attractive.

Have you seriously tried this? Also, how long did you try CM.com? If you have not tried this site then you have not tried Catholic dating sites. And it takes a while sometime to find a date on CM.com. Probably got one date for every 100 women I messaged and it took about 3 1/2 active years on the site to find a girl who wanted to be with me. AND we were friends for a year before out first date (we hung out a few times before that date because we only live about 45 miles from each other) then we dated for a month then we became exclusive and have been exclusive for 4 months. And I am 32 years old. You are 24, why the big rush? Sometimes it takes time to find someone. I get urges too. I am human. Me and my girl have temptation to fornicate. But we do not rush into marriage because of it. There are worse things then having to resist those temptations. Marriage is not a cure for repressed sexual desires.

You can obviously do what you want but I will say that at the age of 24 the part of your brain responsible for right decision making is not even fully mature yet. You have about a year or two more for that. I do not think it is a good idea to seek out a wife from a foreign land who is marrying you just to be supported. A girl your age is still very young and she may later regret having to marry out of the need to be supported instead of for love. The point is, you never know. You do not know that her love will grow for you. And as far as invalid marriages. How do you know that 10 years down the line when this girl is mature that she wont say “I only married this man because I felt I had to in order to survive. It was not 100% of my free will. I did not really want to marry him” guess what? THAT IS grounds for a annulment. Her choice in the matter was not without cohersion of some kind. Even if a girl was to get pregnant and feel she has to marry the guy who got her pregnant so she goes through with a marriage but later seeks a annulment on the grounds that she did not really want to get married but only did it because she felt she had to because she was pregnant, THAT is also grounds for annulment. Your future wife would definitely have a case. She may even get to retain her citizenship and re marry. Where would that leave you?

I do not think your idea is a good one at all. I would stick with Catholicmatch.com. Also, give women a chance. Dude… there has been more than one occasion where I only though that a girl was okay looking by her pictures but when we met in real life she was WAY, WAY prettier that I thought that she was. Some women just do not look that great in pictures, they look better in person. Then some girls look great in pictures but then in person they are average looking at best. So, give women a chance. Good luck.

What if Im just more attracted to indian women lookswise and personality wise?my ex-gf was pakistani and that was a good relationship,I wouldve married her if she werent muslim.I would marry a non-orphan catholic indian too.I think indian women are drop dead gorgeous especially the southern darker ones.

 

[willymonfrete]

-]/-]

When you were dating these women were they people to you or just to fulfil your needs? If you had a daughter and she was facing poverty would you be happy for her to sell herself as a wife?

I want a woman that likes me primarily for my looks and kind character,not money.but I will be the breadwinner and I dont mind being a breadwinner to a orphan girl.you act like its not a choice on their part of as if Im not likeable,its just a logistics issue.arranged marriage is much easier,and I need marriage to avoid fornication.

you think I wouldn’t make sure she really likes me?

 

[willymonfrete]

I can sympathize with it being hard to find a practicing Catholic woman.

For what it is worth, I found my current girlfriend on Catholicmatch.com. Now, you said the women you have seen on Catholic dating sites are either not that attractive or too far away. Nonsense… You are willing to Travel to India to get a wife. I do not know where you live but if you do a search on Cm.com for women your age in a 1000 mile radius from your city, there is no way in heck you are not going to see some drop dead gorgeous women and also a lot of women who are not model looking but super, super, attractive.

Have you seriously tried this? Also, how long did you try CM.com? If you have not tried this site then you have not tried Catholic dating sites. And it takes a while sometime to find a date on CM.com. Probably got one date for every 100 women I messaged and it took about 3 1/2 active years on the site to find a girl who wanted to be with me. AND we were friends for a year before out first date (we hung out a few times before that date because we only live about 45 miles from each other) then we dated for a month then we became exclusive and have been exclusive for 4 months. And I am 32 years old. You are 24, why the big rush? Sometimes it takes time to find someone. I get urges too. I am human. Me and my girl have temptation to fornicate. But we do not rush into marriage because of it. There are worse things then having to resist those temptations. Marriage is not a cure for repressed sexual desires.

You can obviously do what you want but I will say that at the age of 24 the part of your brain responsible for right decision making is not even fully mature yet. You have about a year or two more for that. I do not think it is a good idea to seek out a wife from a foreign land who is marrying you just to be supported. A girl your age is still very young and she may later regret having to marry out of the need to be supported instead of for love. The point is, you never know. You do not know that her love will grow for you. And as far as invalid marriages. How do you know that 10 years down the line when this girl is mature that she wont say “I only married this man because I felt I had to in order to survive. It was not 100% of my free will. I did not really want to marry him” guess what? THAT IS grounds for a annulment. Her choice in the matter was not without cohersion of some kind. Even if a girl was to get pregnant and feel she has to marry the guy who got her pregnant so she goes through with a marriage but later seeks a annulment on the grounds that she did not really want to get married but only did it because she felt she had to because she was pregnant, THAT is also grounds for annulment. Your future wife would definitely have a case. She may even get to retain her citizenship and re marry. Where would that leave you?

I do not think your idea is a good one at all. I would stick with Catholicmatch.com. Also, give women a chance. Dude… there has been more than one occasion where I only though that a girl was okay looking by her pictures but when we met in real life she was WAY, WAY prettier that I thought that she was. Some women just do not look that great in pictures, they look better in person. Then some girls look great in pictures but then in person they are average looking at best. So, give women a chance. Good luck.

Im fine with average.I did not see that.and im not going to wait that long on a catholic dating site.

also Im just not attracted to dutch women.

 

[Brassring]

So, when you made this post were you looking for advice or validation? If the only reason you want to get married is to have sex, you’re not ready to be married. End. Of. Story.

You don’t have a wife-finding problem. You have a 24-year-old-libido-and-twelve-year-old-self-discipline problem. That’s what you need to work on. The cure for that is prayer and piety, not an Indian orphan bride. When you achieve a state where you can see that a woman is more than a sex toy, THEN look for a relationship. Take the time to fall in love, and let her fall in love with you (you need to work on this too, because you seem to have the personality equivalent to a canker sore). THEN, and only then, should you begin worrying about marriage.

You. Are. Not. Husband. Material. Yet.

 

[Norseman82]

Ive had 3 girlfriends/relationships .I dont fornicate anymore since Ive come back to Christ.

so how do you reckon I get legal sex?marriage is a guard against fornication first and foremost imo.

I understand you were given advice in another thread of St. Paul’s writing that “it is better to marry than burn”. However - and I’m going to try to put this as charitably yet firmly as I can - in your attempt to find a good Catholic wife, you may end up in competition with men who do not have a past like you do, and they may see you as an unwelcome “poacher” on their turf (and some of them may be boxers and/or do MMA). So my advice is:

Stop whining. Take a number and get in line. There’s an old saying that it is impolite to go back for “seconds” when others are still in line for their “firsts”. You’re not the first person to have to go “without”, and you won’t be the last. That way, you can be a “team player” and perhaps make atonement for your past actions that have contributed to the poisoning of the dating pool.

 

[Vico]

Your post reminded me a bit of this quote:

“He brooded with relish, in profound secret, over the image of a girl—virtuous, poor (she must be poor), very young, very pretty, of good birth and education, very timid, one who had suffered much, and was completely humbled before him, one who would all her life look on him as her savior.”

Pyotr Petrovitch Luzhin (Crime and Punishment) lived in a sinful fantasy world didn’t he?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I understand you were given advice in another thread of St. Paul’s writing that “it is better to marry than burn”. However - and I’m going to try to put this as charitably yet firmly as I can - in your attempt to find a good Catholic wife, you may end up in competition with men who do not have a past like you do, and they may see you as an unwelcome “poacher” on their turf (and some of them may be boxers and/or do MMA). So my advice is:

Stop whining. Take a number and get in line. There’s an old saying that it is impolite to go back for “seconds” when others are still in line for their “firsts”. You’re not the first person to have to go “without”, and you won’t be the last. That way, you can be a “team player” and perhaps make atonement for your past actions that have contributed to the poisoning of the dating pool.

What a wonderfully materialistic view of human beings.

And for what it’s worth, at least in the West, there is no epidemic of virgin MMA fighters, much less virgin MMA fighters known for beating up non virgin men who try to date pious women.

 

[willymonfrete]

I understand you were given advice in another thread of St. Paul’s writing that “it is better to marry than burn”. However - and I’m going to try to put this as charitably yet firmly as I can - in your attempt to find a good Catholic wife, you may end up in competition with men who do not have a past like you do, and they may see you as an unwelcome “poacher” on their turf (and some of them may be boxers and/or do MMA). So my advice is:

Stop whining. Take a number and get in line. There’s an old saying that it is impolite to go back for “seconds” when others are still in line for their “firsts”. You’re not the first person to have to go “without”, and you won’t be the last. That way, you can be a “team player” and perhaps make atonement for your past actions that have contributed to the poisoning of the dating pool.

Yeah no thanks buddy.if anyone tries to hurt me for seeking a pious women as a guard of chastity,then they will be arrested after they try something or I will take the neccassery measures of self defence.

I will not be a team player or go long yrs without a wife or sex.if I can get a wife who likes me even thru a unconventional method,I will do so.and I dont care about the judgements of others.

the only thing that matters to me is that its a sacramental marriage in the eyes of Yahweh . .