Marrying syro-malabar orphans

[willymonfrete]

There is also a general obligation, not a specific one. Spouses are generally obligated to not unduly neglect each other - but there is no specific obligation at a particular given time that if one spouse asks, the other must comply at that moment.

wrong.the husband’s body belongs to his wife and vice-versa.the husband has authority over his wife’s body and she must give it to him when he asks,and vice-versa.

 

[Walking_Home]

Will keep praying.

 

[DarkLight]

wrong.the husband’s body belongs to his wife and vice-versa.the husband has authority over his wife’s body and she must give it to him when he asks,and vice-versa.

Let me know when you find a church teaching that supports that. That sounds more like redpill than anything that came out of the Catholic Church.

More to the point, marriage is to have a unitive aspect as well as a procreative. I guarantee if one partner demands sex, and the other gives only out of obligation, though it make be unwelcome or even painful to her, there is little of the unitive.

 

[willymonfrete]

You mean I believe what Holy Spirit says in pretty clear words?You mean I don’t deny a teaching simpely because it doesn’t vibe with my '‘personal’'opinions?

I also quoted casti connubi and st.thomas aquinas.I can post other resources but they are mostly from traditionalist sites.

 

[DarkLight]

You mean I believe what Holy Spirit says in pretty clear words?You mean I don’t deny a teaching simpely because it doesn’t vibe with my '‘personal’'opinions?

I also quoted casti connubi and st.thomas aquinas.I can post other resources but they are mostly from traditionalist sites.

I mean what’s obviously “clear” to you is pretty plainly a twist to “vibe with your personal opinions” to the rest of us…

 

[Walking_Home]

The teachings of the Catholic Church are found here:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[DarkLight]

Hey, some of us unmarried ladies have enough skin in the game to know not to marry a guy who thinks like that! The kind of guy who thinks he’s entitled to sex whenever he wants would be a huge red flag for an abusive relationship. If he’s entitled to sex whenever, what’s he going to do when he doesn’t get it?

 

[Walking_Home]

Hey, some of us unmarried ladies have enough skin in the game to know not to marry a guy who thinks like that! ** The kind of guy who thinks he’s entitled to sex whenever he wants would be a huge red flag for an abusive relationship. If he’s entitled to sex whenever, what’s he going to do when he doesn’t get it?**

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Exactly – huge red flag.

 

[willymonfrete]

The teachings of the Catholic Church are found here:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

III. The Love of Husband and Wife

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.

2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."142

Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, “Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety.” So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, “Blessed are you, O God of our fathers… You made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as a helper and support. From the two of them the race of mankind has sprung. You said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.’ I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together.” and they both said, “Amen, Amen.” Then they went to sleep for the night.143

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."144 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.145

2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.
The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.

 

[willymonfrete]

Hey, some of us unmarried ladies have enough skin in the game to know not to marry a guy who thinks like that! The kind of guy who thinks he’s entitled to sex whenever he wants would be a huge red flag for an abusive relationship. If he’s entitled to sex whenever, what’s he going to do when he doesn’t get it?

and some people simpely don’t want to get into a sexless marriage,where you work hard to provide and get nothing in return.if my wife denied me sex consistentely I’d seek a annulment I wouldnt make her have sex with me under pain of mortal transgression on her part.

 

[Walking_Home]

III. The Love of Husband and Wife

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.

2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."142

Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, “Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety.” So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, “Blessed are you, O God of our fathers… You made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as a helper and support. From the two of them the race of mankind has sprung. You said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.’ I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together.” and they both said, “Amen, Amen.” Then they went to sleep for the night.143

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."144 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them.** At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.**145

2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.
The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.

Don’t make a sex slave/servant out of your spouse.

 

[Norseman82]

I’m seeing unhealthy extremes in posts on both sides of this issue.

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You assent – is to the organ danging from your pelvis.

I know the OP needs a cold shower, ice in his pants, and a big brother to have a “conversation” with him (preferably in a ring), but that is uncalled for on a Catholic site.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The bolded part means the spouses are obligated to be faithful and fruitful.

It doesn’t prove Willy’s point on daily sex on demand.

 

[Walking_Home]

and some people simpely don’t want to get into a sexless marriage,where you work hard to provide and get nothing in return.if my wife denied me sex consistentely I’d seek a annulment I wouldnt make her have sex with me under pain of mortal transgression on her part.

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If you go into marriage/treat your wife like a servant/sex slave – she more likely would have the case for an annualment

 

[DarkLight]

and some people simpely don’t want to get into a sexless marriage,where you work hard to provide and get nothing in return.if my wife denied me sex consistentely I’d seek a annulment I wouldnt make her have sex with me under pain of mortal transgression on her part.

Again, the passages you quote do not say that the woman is obligated to have sex with a man whenever he wants, merely that there is an obligation between the spouses in general. There is a very wide range between a sexless marriage and a marriage where you have to have sex whenever your spouse wants - Church teaching is that the proper balance lies somewhere between those two extremes.

You’re making it very black and white in how you talk. Either your wife gives you sex whenever you want, or she refuses to give you sex almost at all. That’s just not how real life works.

I would also advise that the idea that the man has to be the sole provider for a woman who stays at home is not Catholic teaching - especially in a modern age when much more of home life is either purchased from a store or automated, and in a case where no children are involved. Not to say that the parties aren’t allowed to do that if they wish, but you are hardly obligated to be the sole provider anymore.

 

[Norseman82]

This just caught by eye --"both spouses have a marital obligation to one another,but the woman only has an obligation if asked**,a man has an obligation even if she doesn’t ask,**since women have shame.

The wife is not asking for sex – but he is still going to go at her. Sounding rapey.

Yeah, it sounds like “don’t deny it - you really want it”.

Just when I thought the OP was making progress on the mutual nature of it.

 

[Athanasiy]

It seems you are not at all ready for marriage if you think of it merely as a Church approved way to have an attractive woman around to have sex with in exchange for financial support. That is the impression I get from your OP, at least. I am not sure if such a marriage would even be valid, seems there would be much pressure put on an teenager to marry due to financial necessity.

 

[Norseman82]

Most likely they did it by socialising in various Catholic circles, building friendships with Catholics of both sexes, and eventually meeting a woman they felt inclined to propose to.
I imagine you have some maturing to do before you’re ready to enter into marriage. You seem to see marriage as an outlet for your sexual urges. On the contrary, you really shouldn’t go into marriage until you are reasonably well able to exercise self control. There are many things that may happen in marriage that require the sexual element to be secondary to the immediate needs of one of the spouses.
I’d say working on self control, and reading less red pill manosphere interpretations of scripture would be the best thing you could do for your future spouse.

I think what the OP stated earlier is that there really is not much (if any) of a “Catholic circle” where he lives.

 

[Athanasiy]

Fertility isn’t guaranteed and neither is beauty. I know many young women who live with infertility, including secondary fertility. Also, you may be infertile. What if you married a beautiful woman, the woman of your dreams and she was in an accident or had an illness that left her disfigured or even severely disabled? Are you ready to change her diaper or wipe drool from her face? You need to love someone enough to do that before you are ready to get married. While the worst case scenario isn’t likely to happen you must be ready for the commitment. A woman who is older, or plain but is kind, a Catholic, and has values the same things may be a better option for any man than a “dream girl” who has a lot of growing up to do. Have you heard the saying that women marry hoping the man will change and men marry hoping that the woman won’t? If you grow together that’s great but don’t think a young woman will be forever grateful for being rescued.

Thanks. Very interesting

 

[willymonfrete]

I think what the OP stated earlier is that there really is not much (if any) of a “Catholic circle” where he lives.

where I live its impossible to find a practicing catholic woman below the age of 30 seeking to get married,and thats besides the impediments to creating a chemistry.She has to fall for you and that depends on your looks and social charisma and takes alot of time and chance.its basically like magic.Good for those who can manage it,but I can’t without help.I think if I met someone thru a 3rd party person like my original idea,it would be much easier.

I find catholicism an oppressive religion but I have to follow it or I will go to hell.I have to get married or I will fall into sin eventually,I dont care if I dont get sex everyday,as long as I got it in reasonable proportion.I do not believe in opressive marriages on either side of the spectrum,I believe a sexless marriage where the wife isnt even attracted to the man is not a valid marriage.if my wife were in such a predicament I’d seek an annulment,I wouldn’t force her to have sex with me under pain of mortal sin,I don’t want sex with an unwilling woman.

a christian sacramental marriage is my only option to fulfill my needs without risking going to hell.