Marthoma community (Anglican Communion)

[LightBound]

whay mr syromalankara want is some one who praises the betrayal of mar ivanios and then make all other non catholic churches evil. So i am not at all gonna post any comments other than this here . If you really want to know about marthoma church , learn some history , not biased by the dogmatic narrow view of catholics, and then ask a marthoma priest . The intention behind this post is to attack marthomites and to remove the "betrayer " label from syro malankara church .

reported!!

 

[shonejo]

Marthoma is not a anglican or protestent church it is a oriental syrian church founded by saint thomas the apostole.in one post I see that marthoma is derived from catholic it is the biggest lie in the world.because marthoma is oldest church in the india .actually when froigen catholic missionaries came to india they saw a indipented oriental syrian communitie in india wich was ruled by malankara metropolitian not by pope.missionaries conveted marthomites to catholic.so actually catholic in india was derived from marthomites.
Yes marthomas was following ancient liturgy and doctrines before the arrival of catholic in india indians never workshiped mother mary or saint.marthoma gives all importance to mothermary and saints but they wont workship them because the ancient church founded by st thomas was unknown to workship of saints.

 

[shonejo]

A typical Mar Thoma Church member presents there history with their lineage – that is which Protestant Reformation concept. I think that is the reason why they make all claims.
But there are scholars among them who have mentioned these changes. They are a group which followed Anglicans and were known as Navikaranakar or Reformed Jacobites till they took the name Mar Thoma Church.

Church doctrine, liturgy is thoroughly protestant and some among them has problems in accepting that and that may be the reason behind all the claims.

MaRthomites are not protestent , anglican or derived from jacobite when you consider the time of 19th centuery a non syrian christian may feel that marthomites are derived from jacobite actually they arent marthomites never followed anglicans actually during british rule in india marthomite supported cms missionaries for founding schools and educate indians .marthoma syrian church was an oriental syrian church founded by saint thomas the apostole

 

[SyroMalankara]

Marthoma is not a anglican or protestent church it is a oriental syrian church founded by saint thomas the apostole.in one post I see that marthoma is derived from catholic it is the biggest lie in the world.because marthoma is oldest church in the india .actually when froigen catholic missionaries came to india they saw a indipented oriental syrian communitie in india wich was ruled by malankara metropolitian not by pope.missionaries conveted marthomites to catholic.so actually catholic in india was derived from marthomites.
Yes marthomas was following ancient liturgy and doctrines before the arrival of catholic in india indians never workshiped mother mary or saint.marthoma gives all importance to mothermary and saints but they wont workship them because the ancient church founded by st thomas was unknown to workship of saints.

This is a Marthoma created lie. The Church of the East, also called the Assyrian Church, was where the St. Thomas Christians received their ordinations and bishops. This Church has numerous saints and gives most importance of St. Mary in worship.

 

[Jack007]

shonejo,we do not worship mary. . this has been addressed a thousand times on this forums.

Deivamathavaya Marth Mariam has been honoured from the time of st thomas

and what are the thrissurian theories?

 

[Jack007]

This is a Marthoma created lie. The Church of the East, also called the Assyrian Church, was where the St. Thomas Christians received their ordinations and bishops. This Church has numerous saints and gives most importance of St. Mary in worship.

yes. i know my history.

 

[Peter_J]

Marthoma is not a anglican or protestent church it is a oriental syrian church founded by saint thomas the apostole.in one post I see that marthoma is derived from catholic it is the biggest lie in the world.because marthoma is oldest church in the india .actually when froigen catholic missionaries came to india they saw a indipented oriental syrian communitie in india wich was ruled by malankara metropolitian not by pope.missionaries conveted marthomites to catholic.so actually catholic in india was derived from marthomites.
Yes marthomas was following ancient liturgy and doctrines before the arrival of catholic in india indians never workshiped mother mary or saint.marthoma gives all importance to mothermary and saints but they wont workship them because the ancient church founded by st thomas was unknown to workship of saints.

Let me make bold to say that your statements sound highly biased. (I’m reminded of a post I read on the Internet not too long ago, which claimed that we Catholics had the Byzantine Rite first and the Eastern Orthodox “stole” it from us.)

 

[Jack007]

Icons, pictures, statues, and drawings of saints were removed from homes, churches, and places of worship.

All prayers,worship, devotion and praise to the Virgin Mary and the saints were omitted.
All prayers to dead and for dead was omited.

Considered the practice of praying for the dead and of doing obeisance at their graves with lighted candles as abhorrent.

Intercession of saints and prayers for the dead were discarded.

Auricular confession was discontinued.

Repudiated the custom of smearing charcoal on the forehead on Ash Wednesday.

These are identified by secular historians as reformations. they were not there prior to arrival of anglicans.

 

[Jack007]

Learn about history of the church during the colonial period from this site. it is a … well, i can’t describe.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Learn about history of the church during the colonial period from this site. it is a … well, i can’t describe.

Even this version is missing key facts that shed negative light on the “reformers”. It was not mentioned that Claudius Buchanan refused to translate the entire Peshitto, instead he negotiated to only translate into Malayalam those portions which agreed with the protestant Bible without Deuterocanonical Books.

In addition, Buchanan used the British Resident (Governor) to provide monetary incentives for the celibate clergy to get married. Abraham Palakunnath was one of the first people to accept the money and reject his vows of celibacy. When he realized he would only get support from people by having a bishop in his reformed group, he conspired to defraud the Patriarch, falsified papers stating his nephew was elected by the local people, and sent Dn. Mathew to Antioch. Dn. Mathew returned about a year later, ordained Bp. Mathew by the Patriarch, who did not know the lie he was told. Bp. Mathew then tried to strong arm the people into accepting his authority - using the British Resident to write legal papers stating him as head of the Malankara Church.

 

[SyroMalankara]

When it comes to Marthoma church, this is the kind of people we are dealing with, even today. The so-called “respected” bishops are all over the map, they speak first to garner attention, then use wisdom later. I understand he’s a retired senior bishop, but it’s not the first time a Marthoma bishop has stated his opinion as fact, and made a mess out of understanding. The current head Joseph Marthoma has said foolish statement about Orthodox Churches and the Patriarchate and had to retract less than a year ago…

8.25.14
Churches in Kerala seems to be divided over whether or not to use wine in the church services

Ninety-six-year-old Philipose Mar Chrysostom, former head of the Mar Thoma Syrian church, today said various churches in Kerala should reconsider whether or not to use wine in its services.

“For the holy mass, there is no need to use wine”. In the earlier days, instead of wine dried grapes soaked in water were given to believers, he said, adding, it could be followed even now, the former Metropolitan said.

Following the Kerala government’s decision to close down more than 700 bar hotels, except those in five star hotels, Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam, an organisation of Ezhava community, president Vallapally Natesan had said there should be a ban on use of wine in services in churches.

Varapuzha Archbishop Dr Francis Kallarackal had earlier stated that wine was integral to mass being concelebrated by Christians all over the world and cannot be banned.

Syro Malabar church spokesperson Father Paul Thelekat told PTI that the tradition of using wine for holy mass is continued in every church. “No church uses anything other than wine. We will continue the tradition”.

KOCHI: The Kerala Catholic Bishops Council on Friday came up with a statement that the controversy over the use of wine in Holy Mass was ‘unnecessary.’ Though the leaders of Catholic denominations have made their stand clear, it is for the first time that the KCBC is reacting to the controversy after it was sparked off by SNDP Yogam general secretary Vellappally Natesan.

The Bishops Council observed that the ongoing controversy was unnecessary and sparked off with wrong intentions by vested interests. “If anybody has objections to the new liquor policy of the state government, it may be brought to the notice of the authorities. It is not fair to protect vested interests using faith and rituals of a community,” KCBC deputy secretary and spokesperson Fr Varghese Vallikkaattu said. “Sacramental wine is not a liquor. It also does not come under the legal definition of liquor. The relevance of sacramental wine should be understood in the backdrop of faith and tradition of Christian churches,” Fr Vallikkatu pointed out.

Referring to Philipose Mar Chrysostom Metropolitan’s statement that grape juice could be used in Mass instead of wine, it was pointed out that the Catholic Church has a different tradition and view. Non-Catholic Churches such as Pentecost, Baptist, Methodist, Salvation Army, and Evangelical churches use some other materials during their Mass. These Churches have the freedom to adopt a practice which is convenient to them. But the view of the Catholic Church on Holy Mass is something different from that of other Churches. The opinion of Mar Chrysostom should reviewed in this sense,” the KCBC stated.

 

[Jack007]

When it comes to Marthoma church, this is the kind of people we are dealing with, even today. The so-called “respected” bishops are all over the map, they speak first to garner attention, then use wisdom later. I understand he’s a retired senior bishop, but it’s not the first time a Marthoma bishop has stated his opinion as fact, and made a mess out of understanding. The current head Joseph Marthoma has said foolish statement about Orthodox Churches and the Patriarchate and had to retract less than a year ago…

8.25.14
Churches in Kerala seems to be divided over whether or not to use wine in the church services

Ninety-six-year-old Philipose Mar Chrysostom, former head of the Mar Thoma Syrian church, today said various churches in Kerala should reconsider whether or not to use wine in its services.

“For the holy mass, there is no need to use wine”. In the earlier days, instead of wine dried grapes soaked in water were given to believers, he said, adding, it could be followed even now, the former Metropolitan said.

Following the Kerala government’s decision to close down more than 700 bar hotels, except those in five star hotels, Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam, an organisation of Ezhava community, president Vallapally Natesan had said there should be a ban on use of wine in services in churches.

Varapuzha Archbishop Dr Francis Kallarackal had earlier stated that wine was integral to mass being concelebrated by Christians all over the world and cannot be banned.

Syro Malabar church spokesperson Father Paul Thelekat told PTI that the tradition of using wine for holy mass is continued in every church. “No church uses anything other than wine. We will continue the tradition”.

wine is the matter at a qurbana and both validity and liceity of the qurbana depends on it.

 

[SyroMalankara]

All prayers,worship, devotion and praise to the Virgin Mary and the saints were omitted.
All prayers to dead and for dead was omited.

Considered the practice of praying for the dead and of doing obeisance at their graves with lighted candles as abhorrent.

This is the often repeated reformation reason for the existence of the Marthoma church, as separate from the “portuguese/pagan-inspired”-Orthodox&Catholic Churches… yet here’s the current head doing the opposite at the funeral of Mor Koorilos of MISC - does this mean he’ll end the division, or is it another example of standing for everything and nothing?
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