Martin Luther and The Ten Commandments

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Contarini said:
I did, and that’s precisely why I’m calling you to account. You are quoting from a fundamentalist website criticizing Luther for agreeing with the Catholic Church on this point.

Edwin
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I did not get this info from a website.
 
If Martin Luther was doing
God’s work, why did he fail at his attempt to “reform” the Catholic church? A man that works with God’s approval doesn’t fail, because God doesn’t fail.
 
Note:

First it was Luther who changed the parsing of the Ten Commandments but, having been repeatedly shown that Luther did not, now it’s Protestants.

No “oops” or “I made a mistake” or “I beg your pardon”, just a quiet shift that he probably hopes no one will notice. If he can sprinkle in some melodrama about how wrong Protestants are to “love” the arch-heretic, the prestidigitation is far more likely to go undiscovered.

There are, historically, two ways to parse the commandments. The Bible does not number them for us so we have some liberty in how we do so.

For my part I prefer the “Reformed” parsing but would never argue that the Lutheran/Catholic way of doing it was a horrible abuse of exegesis.
 
Steadfast said:
Note:

First it was Luther who changed the parsing of the Ten Commandments but, having been repeatedly shown that Luther did not, now it’s Protestants.

No “oops” or “I made a mistake” or “I beg your pardon”, just a quiet shift that he probably hopes no one will notice. If he can sprinkle in some melodrama about how wrong Protestants are to “love” the arch-heretic, the prestidigitation is far more likely to go undiscovered.

There are, historically, two ways to parse the commandments. The Bible does not number them for us so we have some liberty in how we do so.

For my part I prefer the “Reformed” parsing but would never argue that the Lutheran/Catholic way of doing it was a horrible abuse of exegesis.
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Actually, there are three. Ask any Orthodox Jew what the first commandment is…
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
**What difference dos it make? Luther was a heretic and a very sick man. That’s it. period. **
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That wasn’t the point of your original post though, was it? The point you were making was that Luther changed the numbering of the Ten Commandments. Others proved quite thoroughly that he didn’t. So you decided to change the topic to being about Luther being sick and a heretic? Hmm…

When you were called out for posting, almost word for word, from another website, you changed your tune.

I’d like a direct answer, please. Is it just an amazing coincidence that your unique thoughts so closely resembled another website? Or do you typically participate in piracy?
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
What difference dos it make?
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The difference between truth and falsehood, honesty and dishonesty.
** Luther was a heretic and a very sick man. That’s it. period. **
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Someone previously disposed to believe this might be more inclined to doubt it after seeing your extraordinary display on this thread. First you quote an attack on Luther that is in fact an attack on Catholicism. Then you pretend you weren’t really criticizing Luther. Then you say that the truth of your attack doesn’t matter because Luther is so bad (so it’s OK to lie about him?). You say that your source is not a website, but you refuse to tell us what it is, and your original post corresponded word for word to a fundamentalist website.

And you don’t see how all of this discredits you?

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
The difference between truth and falsehood, honesty and dishonesty.

Someone previously disposed to believe this might be more inclined to doubt it after seeing your extraordinary display on this thread. First you quote an attack on Luther that is in fact an attack on Catholicism. Then you pretend you weren’t really criticizing Luther. Then you say that the truth of your attack doesn’t matter because Luther is so bad (so it’s OK to lie about him?). You say that your source is not a website, but you refuse to tell us what it is, and your original post corresponded word for word to a fundamentalist website.

And you don’t see how all of this discredits you?

Edwin
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Contarini, it doesn’t matter how you would like to discredit me. I only have to answer to God. Not you or anyone. Attacking Luther is attacking the Catholic church is the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard to date. Your “glorious reformer” was a sick man and decided to divorce himself from the church Christ started. Anyone educated in history about Luther and what he taught and thought will know. He tried to destroy the church Christ founded but failed because it wasn’t from God. Remember that.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Contarini, it doesn’t matter how you would like to discredit me. I only have to answer to God. Not you or anyone. Attacking Luther is attacking the Catholic church is the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard to date. Your “glorious reformer” was a sick man and decided to divorce himself from the church Christ started. Anyone educated in history about Luther and what he taught and thought will know. He tried to destroy the church Christ founded but failed because it wasn’t from God. Remember that.
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Can you answer my question from Post #50? Before you start saying I think Luther is a “glorious reformer”, I am Catholic and very proud of that fact.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Contarini, it doesn’t matter how you would like to discredit me. I only have to answer to God. Not you or anyone.
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But you are surely trying to communicate with your fellow-human beings. You aren’t succeeding very well. I’m doing you a favor by pointing it out.
Attacking Luther is attacking the Catholic church is the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard to date.
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When you attack him for agreeing with the Catholic Church, obviously you are attacking the Catholic Church.
Your “glorious reformer”
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I have explained already that I don’t think he was a glorious reformer. Do you really not care about truth at all?
Anyone educated in history about Luther and what he taught and thought will know.
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I will put up my credentials in this regard against yours quite happily. But does it really need to come to that? Can’t we just discuss these things on the evidence without getting personal?

Edwin
 
I’ll put your credentials up, Edwin…

You’re a PhD in the field of historical theology aren’t you?
 
Steadfast said:
I’ll put your credentials up, Edwin…

You’re a PhD in the field of historical theology aren’t you?
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Having a PH.D doesn’t make you any smarter, in fact most who are “brilliant” don’t have any common sense. Not directed at you Contarini, just a well known fact.
 
Contarini said:
But you are surely trying to communicate with your fellow-human beings. You aren’t succeeding very well. I’m doing you a favor by pointing it out.

When you attack him for agreeing with the Catholic Church, obviously you are attacking the Catholic Church.

I have explained already that I don’t think he was a glorious reformer. Do you really not care about truth at all?

I will put up my credentials in this regard against yours quite happily. But does it really need to come to that? Can’t we just discuss these things on the evidence without getting personal?

Edwin
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Luther disagreed with the Catholic church…:confused:
 
nicolep said:
That wasn’t the point of your original post though, was it? The point you were making was that Luther changed the numbering of the Ten Commandments. Others proved quite thoroughly that he didn’t. So you decided to change the topic to being about Luther being sick and a heretic? Hmm…

When you were called out for posting, almost word for word, from another website, you changed your tune.

I’d like a direct answer, please. Is it just an amazing coincidence that your unique thoughts so closely resembled another website? Or do you typically participate in piracy?
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Why do you, as a “Catholic” want to argue with me, a Catholic about Luther who tried to divide your church? There is something wrong here…🤷
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Having a PH.D doesn’t make you any smarter, in fact most who are “brilliant” don’t have any common sense. Not directed at you Contarini, just a well known fact.
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And also not germane. It is not a question of brilliance, but of knowledge. Contarini, as I have observed for years, has knowledge, of this period and of the people concerned. You, OTOH, seem to have found a web site. It is a case of historical competence, on one hand, and historical illiteracy, expressed in irrational statements, on the other.

GKC.
 
GKC said:
And also not germane. It is not a question of brilliance, but of knowledge. Contarini, as I have observed for years, has knowledge, of this period and of the people concerned. You, OTOH, seem to have found a web site. It is a case of historical competence, on one hand, and historical illiteracy, expressed in irrational statements, on the other.

GKC.
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The website I found, was one in comparison to the many things I have said that are true about Luther. You can downplay him all you want to, he was still a heretic and a sick man. I would love to see contarini go head to head with another brilliant man who has his BA with a triple-major in theology, Philosophy and Economics as well as his Master of Divinity and his PH.D in Biblical Theology. He is currently a professor of Theology and Scripture at Franciscan University of Steubenville. The infamous Dr. Scott Hahn. He would never ever argue about Luther. He already knows being an ex-Protestant turned Catholic since 1986
Anyone can receive a PH.D in anything. Takes a little time. It is also the degrees you receive before that.
 
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