Martin Luther and The Ten Commandments

[a_mirror_dimly]

BTW, I never said Martin Luther changed the grouping of the Ten commandments, that was done by the Anabaptists or the Calvinists.
What I did say that the Lutheran Ten Commandments are slightly different than the Catholic.

You can claim whatever you want about what you said, but it’s still there for everyone to read. In case you forgot, here are a couple excerpts posted by you:

Luther did not believe the Second Commandment, so he omitted it in his Large and Small Catechism.

This statement is to cover Luther’s deceit, should you notice in his Catechism that the Second Commandment of the bible is omitted by Luther. He then takes the Third commandment and lists it as the Second commandment.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You can claim whatever you want about what you said, but it’s still there for everyone to read. In case you forgot, here are a couple excerpts posted by you:

And?

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Um, and those two quotes say that Luther changed the grouping of the ten commandments, in direct contradiction with what you just said you said?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Um, and those two quotes say that Luther changed the grouping of the ten commandments, in direct contradiction with what you just said you said?

As this is what is said in his small and large Catechism. But I guess his Catechism is a lie if people here are telling me different.

 

[JonNC]

BTW, I never said Martin Luther changed the grouping of the Ten commandments, that was done by the Anabaptists or the Calvinists.
What I did say that the Lutheran Ten Commandments are slightly different than the Catholic.

Ok, I’ll take that. Certainly there are probably some nuanced differences in interpretation somewhere between our two traditions, though I don’t know what they may be. As for other protestants, I’ll let them speak for themselves.

Thank you, OTCA. May you be blessed tomorrow in Word and Sacrament.
Jon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Ok, I’ll take that. Certainly there are probably some nuanced differences in interpretation somewhere between our two traditions, though I don’t know what they may be. As for other protestants, I’ll let them speak for themselves.

Thank you, OTCA. May you be blessed tomorrow in Word and Sacrament.
Jon

Wow, thank you, was that all it took? :blushing:

 

[JonNC]

Wow, thank you, was that all it took? :blushing:

I would have wished His blessing through Word and Sacrament to you regardless. But, yep, that made it easier.

Jon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I would have wished His blessing through Word and Sacrament to you regardless. But, yep, that made it easier.

Jon

I would of made it easier earlier, but people like O.S.Luke and others were calling me One false Cath etc…and calling me names so I figured, why bother. It took you JonNC class, and patience and love of God to say what you said, to Bless me with Word and Sacrament that I decided to cave. It really touched me. :crying: :bighanky: :hug1:

 

[JonNC]

I would of made it easier earlier, but people like O.S.Luke and others were calling me One false Cath etc…and calling me names so I figured, why bother. It took you JonNC class, and patience and love of God to say what you said, to Bless me with Word and Sacrament that I decided to cave. It really touched me. :crying: :bighanky: :hug1:

Actually, I pray God bless you with His Word and Sacrament because you are His child, but it takes courage to, as you say, cave. I think the key for all of us is to recognize the Holy Spirit in each other, even if we are not from the same faith tradition.

Jon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Actually, I pray God bless you with His Word and Sacrament because you are His child, but it takes courage to, as you say, cave. I think the key for all of us is to recognize the Holy Spirit in each other, even if we are not from the same faith tradition.

Jon

I think when one gets information from a website that isn’t credible is not their fault. It is the fault and lies of that person who started that website to begin with. Although Luther taught and thought some evil, I kind of felt bad for him because I know he really didn’t mean to start such an uprising. But God handled him and he is where he is. Who knows? Because he dedicated his life as a Catholic monk for God, he could be in heaven. He did seem to have a lot of hatred though…

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

I think when one gets information from a website that isn’t credible is not their fault. It is the fault and lies of that person who started that website to begin with. Although Luther taught and thought some evil, I kind of felt bad for him because I know he really didn’t mean to start such an uprising. But God handled him and he is where he is. Who knows? Because he dedicated his life as a Catholic monk for God, he could be in heaven. He did seem to have a lot of hatred though…

Let this be a lesson though. The internet is not in and of itself a credible resource…its great strength and weakness is that anyone can easily set up their own website to broadcast whatever they want to the world. When you read something online, one should investigate what your source is before placing much credence in what is said. If you’re unsure about whether a site is truthworthy, it’s often a good idea to ask the opinion of others before acting on the information presented there.

It’s an easy mistake to make as you’re learning how to research and gather information online, and even the most skeptical of us can be fooled by a well made hoax from time to time. Be on your guard, and seek guidance from those you trust in discerning truth

 

[JonNC]

Let this be a lesson though. The internet is not in and of itself a credible resource…its great strength and weakness is that anyone can easily set up their own website to broadcast whatever they want to the world. When you read something online, one should investigate what your source is before placing much credence in what is said. If you’re unsure about whether a site is truthworthy, it’s often a good idea to ask the opinion of others before acting on the information presented there.

It’s an easy mistake to make as you’re learning how to research and gather information online, and even the most skeptical of us can be fooled by a well made hoax from time to time. Be on your guard, and seek guidance from those you trust in discerning truth

Good advice. I might also add that most often it is better to ask someone what they believe, instead of determining yourself what they believe, or finding information from a third party. If, for example, I want to know what Catholics believe, I will read their catechism, or go to the Vatican or US Conference of Catholic bishops website, or even listen to the Catholics here who I trust, of whom there are a number. In other words, go to the source.

Jon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

But I only go to Catholic or Catholic affiliated websites and honestly I did get much of my info from the writings of ML small and large Catechism. From “Luther’s Works” and from other books written about him. I went to one website and got some info and I hated the website because they also hated Catholics. I didn’t realize this until I went back after posting. I do get my info from credible sources on everything. I guess one small mistake could bring down a nation…

 

[gcnuss]

I guess one small mistake could bring down a nation…

OTCA,

Or, perhaps, the wrath of Lutherans.

Seriously, we Lutherans (at least Jon and I, if I may be so bold as to presume to speak for him as well) are here because we are interested in dialogue with our Catholic brothers and sisters. For myself, it is just as disturbing for me to read someone’s diatribe about “Catholics worship Mary” as it is to run into Catholics who continually raise up Luther as a whipping boy. Neither are doing the cause of Christian unity any favors.

I realize and accept that there are Catholics for whom Luther remains a thorn in their collective side. At the same time, I do my best to answer questions about Luther and Lutheranism as accurately as I can. As you have discovered, there are people out there who attack both our traditions, often for similar reasons. I certainly look to Catholics here on CAF for good answers about Catholicism and I look to some other Catholic websites – the Vatican, EWTN, and the USCCB – as well.

If you have questions about Luther and Lutheranism, I will be happy to answer them as best I can. I’m sure that Jon, in his patient way, will do the same. The most important thing is that we continue to converse without shutting out one another. And, just as importantly, each of us needs to continually pray for greater understanding and, eventually, the healing of the divisions between our traditions.

May God bless you.

 

[JonNC]

But I only go to Catholic or Catholic affiliated websites and honestly I did get much of my info from the writings of ML small and large Catechism. From “Luther’s Works” and from other books written about him. I went to one website and got some info and I hated the website because they also hated Catholics. I didn’t realize this until I went back after posting. I do get my info from credible sources on everything. I guess one small mistake could bring down a nation…

Please, please. I was not intending to criticize. A mistake was made, and all the words that passed are forgotten. If I am to criticize with the plank in my eye, well, I won’t. As was just relating what I try to do, and sometimes admittedly, fail. Pastor Gary wonderfully relays the kind of Christian love that must flow between us. I’m sorry if you took offense. None was intended.

Jon

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Would you be good enough to tell me what edition of “Luther’s Works” you are quoting from? I haven’t been able to find this quote in the edition I have.

Maybe OTCA has been relying on something that the site he quotes from has borrowed from some other site - this might explain some of the details.​

 

[GKC]

But I only go to Catholic or Catholic affiliated websites and honestly I did get much of my info from the writings of ML small and large Catechism. From “Luther’s Works” and from other books written about him. I went to one website and got some info and I hated the website because they also hated Catholics. I didn’t realize this until I went back after posting. I do get my info from credible sources on everything. I guess one small mistake could bring down a nation…

Sincere advice. Pick another topic in this general area, do some reading and surf around, seeing what you can find. If you come to a conclusion, come back and share it. But be a little tentative, and if there is disagreement with what you post, listen to what’s being said, and consider it.

Practice makes, if not perfect, at least improvement. It happened to me.

GKC

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Thank you all for understanding…now on to another heated discussion…(just kidding).

 

[Contarini]

As this is what is said in his small and large Catechism.

No, what you alleged (rightly) was that Luther “omitted” what Protestants consider the Second Commandment in his Small and Large Catechism. I.e., just like Catholics, he regarded this as part of the First Commandment.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

But I only go to Catholic or Catholic affiliated websites and honestly I did get much of my info from the writings of ML small and large Catechism. From “Luther’s Works” and from other books written about him. I went to one website and got some info and I hated the website because they also hated Catholics. I didn’t realize this until I went back after posting. I do get my info from credible sources on everything. I guess one small mistake could bring down a nation…

It’s not a small mistake, given the vitriolic rhetoric you based on your completely garbled information. Now you need to question whether many of the other things you think you know may also be rather muddled.

You mean well, but you don’t seem to think very clearly. You need to work on that.

And I’m not very impressed by the whole “I only use Catholic sources–oh, I used one anti-Catholic source but then forgot about it, but it’s not a big deal” argument. It sounds exactly like what my students say when I catch them plagiarizing off the Internet. (Not, of course, that I think you should only use Catholic sources. But I think you should be thoughtful and critical about all the sources you use, particularly Internet sources, and particularly sources with a polemical axe to grind, whatever their bias.)

Edwin