Martino, Dougherty retire from Scranton [CN-USA]

[Joe_5859]

Personally, I am very disappointed at this. Bishop Martino seemed to be standing up for Catholic orthodoxy in a diocese that likely needed it badly. I am particularly concerned that he lost the faith of his priests, who owe him fidelity and support, not dissention.

I can understand the Vatican’s concern (if indeed this did come from the Vatican) about the situation if the bishop lost the faith of his flock and his leadership became ineffectual. If that is what happened, it is a particularly sad state, but I’m not sure they had much choice.

But, I do not know the facts, so I will reserve judgment.

As I understand it, this did not come from the Vatican. Rather, Bishop Martino submitted his letter of resignation (for the reasons he outlined at the press conference) and the Vatican simply accepted it.

 

[Tigg]

After days of speculation, the Holy See has announced that Pope Benedict has accepted the resignation of controversial Scranton Bishop Joseph Martino

What a sad sad day when a bishop, faithful to his responsibilities to teach the truth of the Catholic faith, is described as controversial. I only know what I’ve read about him but his unwavering stance against the pro-abort crowd speaks volumes to me.

I fail to see how a parish could go wrong by discussing a USCCB document.

Really? Would this by chance, be the same organization that is giving our CHD donations to political groups promoting abortion and same-sex marriage?

 

[Chicken_Little]

A sad day for Scranton. All the liberal, phony Catholic Damnocrats must be rejoicing.

 

[Terry_from_Ypsi]

As I understand it, this did not come from the Vatican. Rather, Bishop Martino submitted his letter of resignation (for the reasons he outlined at the press conference) and the Vatican simply accepted it.

Unless God brings things to light, suspicions will arise. On the radio show “Kresta in the Afternoon”, Al had a guest and I paraphrase the guest’s response,: “Was Martino forced out ?”

It is hard not to think that he was forced to retire. Who would have the “clout” to help get it done ? Cardinal Rigali.

I wonder if Vice President Joe Biden had anything to do with this. After all, Catholic Charities was given a large government contract, catholiccharitiesusa.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1798
The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and its Administration for Children and Families(ACF) section has awarded Catholic Charities USA (CCUSA) a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract to prepare for and provide disaster case management operations throughout the United States and all its Territories. The contract, which spans a 5-year timeframe, was effective July 20. While it covers all types of disasters, the agreement is just in time to help ensure that the federal government and FEMA are prepared with case management resources for the ‘09 Hurricane season. Under the contract HHS can issue task orders to CCUSA for aid in connection with a specific disaster.

SO ah Judas Iscariot, how much did you get for betraying our Lord. Did CCUSA begin the betrayal of US Catholicism to the Obama Presidency ?

Sadly,

 

[Kardinal]

As I understand it, this did not come from the Vatican. Rather, Bishop Martino submitted his letter of resignation (for the reasons he outlined at the press conference) and the Vatican simply accepted it.

There is reasonable speculation that the Vatican was not entirely pleased with Bishop Martino’s performance. I do not know, and I don’t know which situation I prefer. There are many possibilities here.

I think this article lays out a decent case why it is possible that Bishop Martino was asked to resign.

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=60344

I don’t think it makes a compelling case that he DID, only that it is possible. There’s a lot of middle ground between those two extremes as well. He could have come to the conclusion based on the lack of support from his priests and fellow bishops. The Vatican may have expressed concern which caused him to evalute his position. The Vatican may have discussed other options and Bishop Martino decided this was better. Who knows?

As the faithful, I’m not sure it’s our duty to know or evaluate the situation, no matter what happened. Our shepherds are not accountable to us.

We don’t know. And as frustrating as it is to my curiousity, it may be better that we do not know, that we take Bishop Martino at his word, and we simply pray for him and the people of the diocese of Scranton, Pennsylvania.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think sometimes we (and I definitely include myself in this “we”) are far too curious. We often feel the need, or even the “right”, to information that we simply don’t need to know. (The first thing I thought of when I heard of Bishop Martino’s early retirement was “Oooh, I wonder why.”)

This is advice that I try to give myself, and so I just put it out there. More and more I’ve felt personally convicted to make a concerted effort at curbing my curiosity. I find myself often going back to the section in the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Eighth Commandment. In particular:

CCC 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. [278] He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them; [279]

• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

[278] Cf. CIC, can. 220.
[279] Cf. Sir 21:28.

I think this is the Church’s fancy way of telling us to give people the benefit of the doubt and to keep are noses out of other people’s business when it doesn’t concern us. Not that we can’t be informed about what’s going on in the Catholic world around us. But we need to be careful about our assumptions and what information we choose to pass on to others.

And to be clear, I consider this post to be more of a self-accusation than a commentary on anyone else’s posts. No offense is intended.

 

[Kardinal]

I(The first thing I thought of when I heard of Bishop Martino’s early retirement was “Oooh, I wonder why.”)

And to be clear, I consider this post to be more of a self-accusation than a commentary on anyone else’s posts. No offense is intended.

I feel very much the same. A good reminder, Joe.

 

[Tigg]

I think sometimes we (and I definitely include myself in this “we”) are far too curious. We often feel the need, or even the “right”, to information that we simply don’t need to know. (The first thing I thought of when I heard of Bishop Martino’s early retirement was “Oooh, I wonder why.”)

This is advice that I try to give myself, and so I just put it out there. More and more I’ve felt personally convicted to make a concerted effort at curbing my curiosity. I find myself often going back to the section in the Catechism of the Catholic Church on the Eighth Commandment. In particular:

I think this is the Church’s fancy way of telling us to give people the benefit of the doubt and to keep are noses out of other people’s business when it doesn’t concern us. Not that we can’t be informed about what’s going on in the Catholic world around us. But we need to be careful about our assumptions and what information we choose to pass on to others.

And to be clear, I consider this post to be more of a self-accusation than a commentary on anyone else’s posts. No offense is intended.

I hear you Joe, and it is good advice, to a point. We must each examine our own hearts for any indication of these sins, and YET…we are living in times of great deception within government and even within the Church itself! One only needs to look at the growing list of dissenters and see the error happily flourishing within one’s own parish. The very sad truth of the matter is that the body of bishops currently appear to espouse politics far more readily than they worry about keeping the keys to the Kingdom safe. As laity it is our duty to keep watch.

 

[Kardinal]

As laity it is our duty to keep watch.

Is it? Certainly it is our duty to be watchful and hold tight to the faith that has been passed on to us. But it is not our duty to watch over our bishops.

How exactly did you mean this?

 

[Tigg]

This quote has been posted sooo many times………

“Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, and the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops act like bishops, and your religious act like religious.”

• Servant of God Fulton J. Sheen

And then in a speech regarding the laity’s role post Vat II:

In particular, you lay people must again take those documents in hand. To you the Council opened extraordinary perspectives of commitment and involvement in the Church’s mission. Did the Council not remind you of your participation in the priestly, prophetic and kingly office of Christ?

John Paul II (Nov. 2000)

 

[Joe_5859]

This quote has been posted sooo many times………

And then in a speech regarding the laity’s role post Vat II:

Fair enough. I would add the caveat that there is a difference between what Sheen is talking about and taking potshots at our bishops at any opportunity. Any criticism that comes from us should be both necessary and charitable.

Calling attention to the error of a bishop who is saying that homosexual activity is not sinful is (regrettably) necessary, though care should be taken to do so in the most charitable way possible. Yelling “Judas” at a bishop because he has closed down a parish for financial reasons we do not understand is not necessary nor charitable.

 

[Kardinal]

Tigg,

Your Vatican II quote does not seem to address my question. Certainly we have that call, but what does that call involve in terms of “keeping watch” in regards to our spiritual superiors (in terms of authority). Perhaps you can elaborate on it.

Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, and the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops act like bishops, and your religious act like religious."

And certainly the laity, comprising 98% of the Church, have the most raw power in the Church, and in that regard, the responsibility to “save” it. But respectfully to Bishop Sheen, how are we to “see that” our spiritual superiors act as they should? We have no authority over them.

 

[Tigg]

Tigg,

Your Vatican II quote does not seem to address my question. Certainly we have that call, but what does that call involve in terms of “keeping watch” in regards to our spiritual superiors (in terms of authority). Perhaps you can elaborate on it.

And certainly the laity, comprising 98% of the Church, have the most raw power in the Church, and in that regard, the responsibility to “save” it. But respectfully to Bishop Sheen, how are we to “see that” our spiritual superiors act as they should? We have no authority over them.

Oh, I agree with your comments - my thrust was meant to say we need to watch with spiritual eyes and beware there is much political machination going on behind the scenes (most of which we are not privy to.) I believe our main ministry at this moment should be to pray for them all, but especially the faithful stars in God’s sky - the ones, who perhaps, are being persecuted because of their very faithfulness.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

It is hard not to think that he was forced to retire. Who would have the “clout” to help get it done ? Cardinal Rigali.

I don’t know about this. Why would Rigali want the extra work of now heading the Scranton diocese until a replacement is found?

I think it just might be he was forced out by the non-Catholic Catholics who wish to make their own faith and morals. He is the victim of people only wanting to say that they’re catholic and not really believe it.

 

[Chicken_Little]

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[SSPXwannaB]

Sad to see a real Bishop go. Meanwhile we are stuck with that heretic Roger Mahoney out here. There is a battle for our Church; surely ‘the smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary.’ USCCB is not an official authority within the Roman Catholic Church.

“Bishop Martino has successfully expressed a frustration many Catholic Americans have recently felt toward the USCCB. From funding of radical leftist organizations like ACORN (read more here), to it’s handling of the 2002 sex-abuse scandal, to failing to adopt the pope’s liturgical reforms, to dragging their feet on seemingly every issue of major importance, to watered-down political statements that confuse the pro-life priority of the Vatican; the USCCB is increasingly becoming a “liberal” body that no longer represents authentic Roman Catholicism. In short, Bishop Martino is right, and I really can’t blame him for saying “the USCCB doesn’t speak for me.” The truth is, the USCCB usually doesn’t speak for a lot of bishops, priests or laity. As for me, my loyalty lies with Rome - specifically the pope - and whenever forced to choose between the USCCB and Rome on any particular issue, I’ll side with Rome every time. That’s how it should be with all practicing Catholics. ‘The Catholic Knight’ applauds Bishop Martino for his pastoral courage. May God bless him…”
catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/10/usccb-doesnt-speak-for-me.html

 

[Tigg]

“Bishop Martino has successfully expressed a frustration many Catholic Americans have recently felt toward the USCCB. From funding of radical leftist organizations like ACORN (read more here), to it’s handling of the 2002 sex-abuse scandal, to failing to adopt the pope’s liturgical reforms, to dragging their feet on seemingly every issue of major importance, to watered-down political statements that confuse the pro-life priority of the Vatican; the USCCB is increasingly becoming a “liberal” body that no longer represents authentic Roman Catholicism. In short, Bishop Martino is right, and I really can’t blame him for saying “the USCCB doesn’t speak for me.” The truth is, the USCCB usually doesn’t speak for a lot of bishops, priests or laity. As for me, my loyalty lies with Rome - specifically the pope - and whenever forced to choose between the USCCB and Rome on any particular issue, I’ll side with Rome every time. That’s how it should be with all practicing Catholics. ‘The Catholic Knight’ applauds Bishop Martino for his pastoral courage. May God bless him…”
catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/10/usccb-doesnt-speak-for-me.html

:clapping::clapping: May God reward you for your faithfulness, Bishop Martino!

While our clergy deserve the utmost respect by virtue of Holy Orders, when things are so glaringly wrong, we all need to speak out! Whatever is happening behind the scenes of the USCCB?

 

[wynnejj]

Bishop Martino’s teaching authority has been a beacon of bright light visible well beyond his archdiocese. His clear orthodoxy and courageous execution of his teaching authority will be greatly missed universally throughout the church.

 

[wynnejj]

“Bishop Martino has successfully expressed a frustration many Catholic Americans have recently felt toward the USCCB. From funding of radical leftist organizations like ACORN (read more here), to it’s handling of the 2002 sex-abuse scandal, to failing to adopt the pope’s liturgical reforms, to dragging their feet on seemingly every issue of major importance, to watered-down political statements that confuse the pro-life priority of the Vatican; the USCCB is increasingly becoming a “liberal” body that no longer represents authentic Roman Catholicism. In short, Bishop Martino is right, and I really can’t blame him for saying “the USCCB doesn’t speak for me.” The truth is, the USCCB usually doesn’t speak for a lot of bishops, priests or laity. As for me, my loyalty lies with Rome - specifically the pope - and whenever forced to choose between the USCCB and Rome on any particular issue, I’ll side with Rome every time. That’s how it should be with all practicing Catholics. ‘The Catholic Knight’ applauds Bishop Martino for his pastoral courage. May God bless him…”
catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/10/usccb-doesnt-speak-for-me.html

Excellent post!

 

[Joe_5859]

Sad to see a real Bishop go. Meanwhile we are stuck with that heretic Roger Mahoney out here. There is a battle for our Church; surely ‘the smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary.’ USCCB is not an official authority within the Roman Catholic Church.

“Bishop Martino has successfully expressed a frustration many Catholic Americans have recently felt toward the USCCB. From funding of radical leftist organizations like ACORN (read more here), to it’s handling of the 2002 sex-abuse scandal, to failing to adopt the pope’s liturgical reforms, to dragging their feet on seemingly every issue of major importance, to watered-down political statements that confuse the pro-life priority of the Vatican; the USCCB is increasingly becoming a “liberal” body that no longer represents authentic Roman Catholicism. In short, Bishop Martino is right, and I really can’t blame him for saying “the USCCB doesn’t speak for me.” The truth is, the USCCB usually doesn’t speak for a lot of bishops, priests or laity. As for me, my loyalty lies with Rome - specifically the pope - and whenever forced to choose between the USCCB and Rome on any particular issue, I’ll side with Rome every time. That’s how it should be with all practicing Catholics. ‘The Catholic Knight’ applauds Bishop Martino for his pastoral courage. May God bless him…”
catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/10/usccb-doesnt-speak-for-me.html

I choose to be a little less cynical when it comes to the USCCB. The USCCB is not an official authority per se, but Canon Law does call for national Bishops’ conferences and tasks them with certain responsibilities (just do a word search for “conference of bishops” in Canon Law).

I don’t think we need to set up an “us vs. them” / “USCCB vs. Rome” dichotomy. Unfortunately, a lot of actions of separate individuals, committees and organizations tend to get lumped together as actions of the USCCB (and not all of those actions are meritorious). But there is a difference between the USCCB as a body of bishops (which meets twice a year and votes on stuff) and the USCCB as an über-chancery (full of year round staff members, both clerical and lay).

I understand the cynicism. Really, I do. There certainly are things that make you go . Nevertheless, the USCCB is not going to go away. The Vatican is not going to pull the plug on a national Bishops’ conference. However, staff members change. So we can pray earnestly for those changes to be good ones, or even work towards qualifying ourselves for such positions and applying for them (here’s the list of current available openings). IMHO, that’s a more productive route than simply lamenting the bad ol’ USCCB.

Much as with individuals, groups and organizations are more effectively changed from the inside rather than the outside. I firmly believe that things are moving in the right direction in that regard. Change won’t happen overnight, but it will happen.