Mary and her role? (Multi-Merged)

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And why not? But are they the focus of the Mass? No, they aren’t.
I am not asking about that. I just asked Do Catholics have to pray to Mary and the saints.

It seems that they do because they have to pray the mass together as one and the mass contains prayers of Mary and the saints.
 
Our intention should be that we be of one mind. Everyone has doubts from time to time, but our intention to be of one mind with the Church covers such instances.
I’m not asking about doubts. I am asking if to be a Catholic you have to pray to Mary and the saints. At least one person has told me yes at least once a week because praying the mass at least once a week is a requirement.
 
At this point I’d suggest that you make an appointment with a Priest to discuss this. Bring your Grandfather’s missal with you and bookmark the pages with the prayers that you have questions about. It sounds like you are getting more and more confused.

The Catholic church is not a cult. There isn’t anything hidden. Please meet with a Priest.

Now that your thread a number of others have been merged it is only going to get more confusing.
 
I believe he or she has an old Roman Missal that we obviously do not use anymore because I really can’t think of any time Mary or the Saints are in the speaking parts prayers we say, obviously they are right there with us as the Book of Revelation teaches us. Other than Form A of the penitential rite and when we honor the martyrs in one Eucharistic prayer they are there but the priest says that part we don’t and we aren’t asking for intersession during that Eucharistic prayer.
Are you saying my information is not right? That its too old and there is a new teachings and prayers now?
 
I’m not asking about doubts. I am asking if to be a Catholic you have to pray to Mary and the saints. At least one person has told me yes at least once a week because praying the mass at least once a week is a requirement.
I believe you have been given the answer to this question multiple times. Please don’t repeat the question expecting a different answer.

What, specifically, don’t you understand about the answers given?
 
I’m not asking about doubts. I am asking if to be a Catholic you have to pray to Mary and the saints. At least one person has told me yes at least once a week because praying the mass at least once a week is a requirement.
We pray with them during the sacrifice of the mass. The Book of Revelation makes that clear.
 
Are you saying my information is not right? That its too old and there is a new teachings and prayers now?
Yes, your information is wrong. My response got lost in the shuffle when the threads got merged. I’ll repeat it.
You’re wrong.
I suggest you read thru all the prayers of the Mass. If you find a prayer addressed to Mary, or the saints, would you please quote it for us – and reference where it occurs.

There are no prayers TO Mary or the saints that I’m aware of.
Altho their names may be mentioned, please note that the prayer is addressed to God.

Possible exceptions would be what is referred to as the “Entrance Antiphon” for 2 of the Marian Holy Days of Obligation. These are short accolades that honor Mary.
August 15, Feast of the Assumption: “All honor to you, Mary! Today you were raised above the choirs of angels to lasting glory with Christ.”

December 8, Feast of the Immaculate Conception: “All honor to you, Mary! From you arose the sun of justice, Christ our God.”
If you don’t have a missal, the Mass prayers can be accessed here:
catholicbridge.com/catholic/catholic_mass_full_text.php
 
At this point I’d suggest that you make an appointment with a Priest to discuss this. Bring your Grandfather’s missal with you and bookmark the pages with the prayers that you have questions about. It sounds like you are getting more and more confused.

The Catholic church is not a cult. There isn’t anything hidden. Please meet with a Priest.

Now that your thread a number of others have been merged it is only going to get more confusing.
A priest? I don’t want to go to a priest yet. Is the correct answer one of those secret teachings that can’t be taught out in the open?
 
Yes, your information is wrong. My response got lost in the shuffle when the threads got merged. I’ll repeat it.
I may sound stupid but I’ve gotten far enough that none of the saints and catholic prayers to Mary aren’t exactly to them.

I have my grandfathers prayer books like novena books and such and they all ask for intercessions.

The bible study leaders say that is wrong. So when I ask if you have to pray to Mary and the saints, I meant do you have to say the prayers that Catholics say (to) Mary and the saints.

I already know that there aren’t any prayers directly to them but just asking for help.
 
The Outline of the Mass comes from the Book of Revelation - you really can’t separate the Saints and the Angels from the mass because it is where Heaven and Earth meet.

Rev. 1:6, 20:6 - heaven’s identification of the priesthood of the faithful is the same as the Church’s identification on earth.

Rev. 1:10 - John witnesses the heavenly liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, which is a Catholic holy day of obligation for attending Mass on earth.

Rev. 1:12, 2:5 - there are lampstands or Menorahs in heaven. These have always been used in the Holy Mass of the Church on earth.

Rev. 1:13 - Jesus is clothed as High Priest. Our priests also clothe themselves as “alter Christuses” (other Christs) in offering His sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 - priests wear special vestments in heaven. Our priests also wear special vestments in celebrating the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 2:5,16,21; 3:3; 16:11 - there is a penitential rite in heaven which is also part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 2:17 - there is manna in heaven given to the faithful. This is the same as the Eucharistic manna given to the faithful at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 - there are priests (“presbyteroi”) in heaven. Priests offer sacrifice. Our earthly priests participate with the heavenly priests in offering Jesus’ eternal sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:8 - heaven’s liturgical chant “Holy, Holy, Holy” is the same that is used in the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:8-11, 5:9-14, 7:10-12, 18:1-8 - the various antiphonal chants in the heavenly liturgy are similar to those used at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:1 - there is a book or scroll of God’s word in heaven. This is reflected in the Liturgy of the Word at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:6 and throughout - heaven’s description of Jesus as the “Lamb” is the same as the description of Jesus as the Lamb of God in the Eucharistic liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 - heaven’s emphasis on the intercession of the saints is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 - there is incense in heaven which has always been part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:14; 7:12; 19:4 - heaven’s concluding liturgical prayer “Amen” is the same as is used at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 6:9 - the martyrs who are seen under the heavenly altar is similar to the Church’s tradition of keeping relics of saints under the earthly altars.

Rev. 7:3, 14:1, 22:4 - there is the sign of the cross (“tau”) in heaven. This sign is used during the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 7:9; 14:6 - the catholicity or universality of heaven as God’s family is the essence of the Catholic faith on earth.

Rev. 8:1 - the silent contemplation in heaven is similar to our silent contemplation at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 - there is an altar in heaven. But no altar is needed unless a sacrifice is being offered in heaven. This is the same sacrifice that is offered on the altars used in the Holy Masses on earth.

Rev. 11:12 - the phrase “come up here” is similar to the priest’s charge to “lift up your hearts” at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 12:1-6, 13-17 - heaven’s emphasis on the Blessed Virgin Mary is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 12:7 - heaven’s emphasis on the Archangel Michael’s intercession is the same as the concluding prayers at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 14:4 - there are consecrated celibates in heaven, as there are with our Catholic priests and religious on earth.

Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4,8,10,12,17; 21:9 - there are chalices (or bowls) in the heavenly liturgy. This is like the chalices used to offer Christ’s sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 15:3-4 - there is the recitation of the “Gloria” in heaven. This is also recited at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 15:5 - there is a tent or tabernacle in heaven. Tabernacles are used to store the Eucharist at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 17, 19:9 - the consummation of the Lamb at heaven’s marriage supper is the same as the Lamb’s supper in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 19:1,3,4,6 - there is the recitation of the “Alleluia” in heaven. This is also recited at the Holy Mass on earth.
 
I believe you have been given the answer to this question multiple times. Please don’t repeat the question expecting a different answer.

What, specifically, don’t you understand about the answers given?
I’m confused because the answers are not the same. One response has been that yes, it is a mandatory for Catholics to pray the mass in common with the congregation and the priest, and therefore, if the mass has prayers or hymns to Mary and the saints, then it is the Catholic duty to pray these prayers in common as “one body”.

Others have said, no. It is not necessary to pray the parts of the mass that refer to Mary and the saints together with the priest and the congregation.

Which one do you believe? Is there a real final answer from a Catholic encyclopedia or somewhere?
 
A priest? I don’t want to go to a priest yet. Is the correct answer one of those secret teachings that can’t be taught out in the open?
:D:D:D Oh that is funny:D:D:D I’m sorry I don’t mean to make light of your situation but there are no hidden teachings that are not talked about… Everything you need to know about the Catholic church can be read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Can you tell me if you were baptized and confimed in the Catholic church?
 
Ho w can what you say be true if the mass is one prayer in common with the priest and people? The mass parts I’ve been reading have many prayers to Mary and the saints.
And ??? what’s the issue for you?

God has ONE HOLY.FAMILY…all UNITED via HS, baptized into Christ …this includes All Christians, PAST AND PRESENT. We are linked to David, Moses, the Apostles, even your Dad/Granddad ( all Church Triumphant members) via HS !!
 
Prayers to Mary in a NOvena prayer book are not part of the mass. You do not have to pray those prayers. You do have to participate in the Mass however and in the mass there are no direct prayers aor worship to Mary.
 
Are you saying then that it is OK for Catholics to privately not pray those hymns of honor to Mary in mass?
If you are a protestant your worship service would be completely different from a Catholic since you do not offer God a sacrifice. You sing hymns to God and read scripture so looking at Catholics doing that for Mary is probably considered worship to someone who worships God like a Protestant but that isn’t what Catholics are doing. We honor her but we would never offer her sacrifice and to a Catholic, offering God a sacrifice is the highest form of worship. The Catholic Church is the only place you are going to figure out why God gave you a body to worship him with and use all five of your senses.
 
You do not have to pray personal prayers to Our Lady but you do have to particpate in the Mass. The mass does not have specific prayers to Our Lady. Your Novena prayer book is not part of the Mass
 
:D:D:D Oh that is funny:D:D:D I’m sorry I don’t mean to make light of your situation but there are no hidden teachings that are not talked about… Everything you need to know about the Catholic church can be read in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Can you tell me if you were baptized and confimed in the Catholic church?
But I have more reservations now than when I started. You say no to praying to saints and Mary but you say yes to mass. The mass has hymns and prayers ‘to’ Mary and the saints.

I’m using the little quotes now on the words pray ‘to’ because someone spanked me about Catholics never pray ‘to’ Mary. But I’ve read my grandfathers prayer books and am smart enough to see that these prayers are for prayers of help and intercessions.

Now people are getting too clever with words.

When I asked do you have to pray the prayers Catholics pray ‘to’ Mary and the saints I’m not confused about the part about asking for the help of the saint. Its true that all the Catholic prayers ‘to’ Mary and the saints are of this kind. Correct?
 
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