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Jack007
Guest
They were more concerned with absolute requirements of salvation. They did, however, teach less important things by mouth.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Sorry, I just now saw this question. I have some health issues that are not serious in that I will die soon. I have Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue both of which make me quite undependable as well as have limited my ability to understand and make myself understood. I have good times…as this morning (4;30 am) where I can understand things much more clearly and other times where I’m sure I do something right and realize later that it wasn’t at all. Between pain, cognitive impairment and short-term memory problems I don’t make it to church as often as I would like.
Thanks for asking.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Thanks, Jack, I have bookmarked this site for research!
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Jack007
Guest
Praying for your health. I know how difficult it is for you, my father is a doctor.
…,…,…
Oh, Sorry for not capitalizing the C.
I mean, what keeps you from the Catholic Church?
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Peter_J
Guest
I guess the obvious question is, What changed? (Not that I’m pushing for it to be discussed, it just seemed like it needed to be mentioned.)
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spedteacherita
Guest
What keeps me from the Catholic Church? I would say what keeps most protestants away. I’m not convinced about venerating Mary and the saints are the biggies. At thos point, also, I don’t believe that the Host kept in a church’s sanctuary is Christ. When I take communion I believe at yhe time I am taking it that God’s word and the elements are the body and blood of Christ but that they are not changed forever.
I don’t say this to be argumentative at all but because this has been my beliefs for the past 30 some years.
That is why I’m asking questions, studying and researching. Man is fallible…I just want to make sure that I live as close to Jesus’ teaching as I can.
I’m also in a Lutheran Apologetics group as well in order to see the answers I get there.
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Jack007
Guest
I feel happy and honoured.
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Jack007
Guest
catholic.com/for-other-christians
Is a very good source for you. You might want to bookmark it as well!
I know. You are the most peaceful,open and genuine protestant I have seen.
That is why God made the Pope infalliable in faith and morals.
Looking forward to hear what they say.
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Peter_J
Guest
interesting. Those sound a lot like the issues that keep me from Lutheranism.
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Scottgun
Guest
The saints and transubstantiation are the main things keeping Protestants from the Church? I’ll take that as progress because I assume that means they agree with the Church that abortion and contraception are inherently immoral, that same-sex “marriage” is a legal fiction covering an inherently abhorrent sexual practice, divorce and re-marriage is wrong, etc.
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spedteacherita
Guest
To all who have been very generous in this discussion I want to say thank you. It does none of us any good to be hateful about another’s beliefs because in that mode no hearing and/or learning can take place.interesting. Those sound a lot like the issues that keep me from Lutheranism.
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spedteacherita
Guest
Remember, I come from a conservative Lutheran ideology. I understand the issue of contraception myself as being immoral but the LCMS does not uphold same sex marriage or relationships or divorce. If someone has divorced it is perceived as a sin and sin can be forgiven by God.
I forgot that we do have the issues as to what is considered sacrents and mortal sins. I guess there are a lot more difference between us after all.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Just to be sure, you do know that venerating is *honoring *and not worshipping, right?
Worship is for God alone, but we can honor others - living or dead - because of the exemplary lives they lead.
Is the official teaching of the LCMS?
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Praying to Saints and the Communion of Saints Proved from Scripture
**1. Every Christian is a member of the Body of Christ **
“Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.” (Romans 12:4-5)
“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-13)
And we are joined with Christ through baptism
“having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12)
“We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” (Romans 6:4)
“for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” (Galatians 3:27)
**2. All Christians are connected through the Body of Christ **
“If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.”(1 Corinthians 12:26)
“If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you” (2 Corinthians 2:5)
3. Physical death does not separate us from the Body of Christ
“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39)
**4. There is only one Body of Christ in Heaven and on Earth **
“His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.” (Ephesians 2:15-16)
“There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” (Ephesians 4:4-5)
**5. The Church is the Body of Christ **
“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” (Ephesians 1:22-23)
“And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy” (Colossians 1:18)
**6. Just as we can pray for one another, we can suffer for one another because we are all connected in Christ **
“Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Colossians 1:24)
7. If you can ask a member of the Body of Christ on earth to pray for you, then you can also ask someone who is a member of that same Body of Christ in heaven to do the same for they are not “dead” at all.
“He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." (Luke 20:38)
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Scottgun
Guest
That’s incorrect. Divorce per se is not a sin. It is getting remarried after a divorce in which one was validly married. That sin cannot be forgiven until the second invalid and adulterous marriage is abandoned. Otherwise it is continuing in a state of sin.
po18guy
Well-known member
Consider: There are only two Churches that trace directly to Christ via the Apostles. Both venerate Mary, have seven Sacraments and a hierarchical priesthood. All of the rest, without exception, split off from one of them - most less than 500 years ago.
In truth, a lot of what you currently believe is new to Christianity, rather than what the Catholic and Orthodox believe. Their beliefs may appear strange to you precisely because of their antiquity.
As to Mary, we venerate her because God did first - when He conceived of her in the divine intellect and bought her to flesh to bear the Christ. No other mother, no other human would ever be so blessed.
We venerate Mary because John did by taking her into his home - even though he had a living mother, who was also at the crucifixion.
We venerate her because we cannot imagine how an obscure teenage Jewish girl could have “found favor with God.” What is unwritten is more important than what is written.
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spedteacherita
Guest
There’s a fine line between veneration and worshiping, then. I see a lot of people on EWTN kissing statues of Mary and using her pictures to “bless”? A group of people. Maybe I’m interpreting it wrongly. I honor Mary because she did carry our Lord Jesus for 9 months and was his earthly mother till adulthood but I go directly to Jesus fir my cares, concerns, and forgiveness.
I think you also asked if what I understand at communion is an LCMS teaching? We belueve that it’s the combination of the elements at the time we ingest that Christ is present. I think Luther said that Christ is “in, with and under” the elements. It’s not transubstantiaion but rather consubstantion.
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Randy_Carson
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spedteacherita
Guest
Of course I pray for others and I ask others to pray for me. But those whom I ask or pray for are still in this world.
I’m still studying the list of early fathers that SteveVH gave me and some scripture verses dmar198 gave me as well.
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Path_Finder
Guest
If this was covered here already, disregard but as we know, Martin Luther had quite a devotion to Mary.
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