Mary and what some people thing is Goddess worship

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When some people think that Catholics engage in goddess worship by saying prayers to Mary, what goddess to they think that we are worshipping? Who is the goddess Diane or Diana? Where are they getting this?

(This question is NOT intended to start a debate about ‘whether or not Catholics worship Mary’ (because I know that we don’t), but to understand the statements about goddess worship)).

Thank you for answering my question!!
 
How can one understand irrational or erroneous statements?

Perhaps a better way to phrase your question would be: “What do you think are the possible origins of the erroneous statement about goddess worship?”

I can recall my Western Civilization professor in a secular college alleging that the so-called cult of Mary was a throw-back to pre-Christian goddess worship.
 
They think we worship Semiramis or Isis or something like that. And of course we don’t.

God bless,

David
 
It comes down to the concept of worship. Those who accuse Catholics of Mary-worship are typically Protestants. Catholics and Protestants have different definitions of worship. To a Protestant, worship is a combination of prayer, hymn-singing, and sermon-giving. So when they see Catholics say the Hail Mary, sing Hail Holy Queen Enthroned Above, and hear a sermon on the Immaculate Conception, it meets their definition of worship. But Catholics see worship as sacrifice. Sacrifice is the center of the Catholic religion, whereas it does not exist in Protestantism. The Mass is seen as the means of worship, and the Mass is never offered to Mary or any other saint for that matter. It is an entirely different sort of worship. Thing is, if you use the first definition of worship, then yes, Catholics worship Mary. But Catholics don’t see it that way, because never do Catholics offer sacrifice to her. Sacrifice or hymn-singing. That’s the difference.
 
I think the general perception among Protestants is that Catholics have elevated Mary to a place of honor which often surpasses that which is due Jesus. They see such devotions as the Rosary as being totally unscriptural and a direct sign that we do worship Mary rather thanGod. They also tend to believe that we worship graven kidols, statues of Saints etc., and that we have perverted the simple faith given us byJesus and transformed it into a ginat works based religion in which no one ever knows if they are saved or ever will be.’.
 
UnusVeritas said:
It comes down to the concept of worship. Those who accuse Catholics of Mary-worship are typically Protestants.
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Then it must have been the Protestants who translated “colere” as “to worship” on the Vatican’s own English-translated website.

Now “colere” can mean a whole lot of things, including “worship” but its meaning is probably closer here to “to cultivate” or even “to honor,” which would be closer to the Italian translation. Above all it must be differentiated from “worship, such as worship to God,” but it’s not the way it ended up. Someone apparently didn’t see the damaging ramifications of using the word “worship” in the translation.
 
Bigcat71 said:
I think the general perception among Protestants is that Catholics have elevated Mary to a place of honor which often surpasses that which is due Jesus. They see such devotions as the Rosary as being totally unscriptural and a direct sign that we do worship Mary rather thanGod. They also tend to believe that we worship graven kidols, statues of Saints etc., and that we have perverted the simple faith given us byJesus and transformed it into a ginat works based religion in which no one ever knows if they are saved or ever will be.’.
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Coming from protestantism, this is probably the best summary I’ve read so far of what I and many of my protestant family and friends believed of the Catholic Church and Mary devotion.

I told one of my protestant co-workers the other day that I was going to go to RCIA to get into the Catholic Church. Her response was “really?”, but with a look and tone like she was sorry for me, like I’d lost a puppy or something. She then brought up the fact that Catholic worship idols. I very quickly said “no, they don’t”. Her response was “eh, well yeah they do” and then quickly changed the subject.

It took me a while to see the difference in worship from protestantism to Catholicism, but there is a significant difference.

I’ve said this before: I think one additional problem may be the fact that Catholics kind of have their own lingo in regards to Mary. I’ve heard some say “OH, Mary has blessed me and my family so much!!”. When I first heard this, my protestant part came up and freaked out, but then I remembered that they mean that Mary has done much successful intercession for her and her family. So, I think that aside from the misunderstandings of what worship is, as well as the lingo that Catholics have, it kind of deters protestants and makes them think that Mary is worshiped by Catholics.
 
No born Catholic can really understand this issue, because they were not steeped in it from a very early age.

Most (not all, but most) Protestant Churches do not pray to Saints at all (some either do not recognize Saints, or they acknowledge the Apostles, and St. Paul, but that’s about it).

They do not believe that anyone, at any time, interceeds between you and God. That no one that is not living CAN ask God to forgive you, and that even a living person really has little if any influence on God. It is YOUR petition to God that matters, and YOUR asking for forgiveness.

There is no requirement to confess to any human being, all you need to do is to confess to God and ask for forgiveness for your sins.

Therefore, the very concept that anyone would pray to any person OTHER than God appears to them to be a form of worship. They can not understand even the concept that you would ask Mary (or Peter, or John or anyone else) to pray to God and ask that you be forgiven, cured, your mother cured, etc., etc.

To them, miracles happen solely because GOD decided to pass a miracle, and no intercession by anyone else had anything at all to do with this.

Therefore, paces like Lourdes, Fatima, etc., to them are nothing more than Churches worshiping Mary. They have nothing to do with God, they are set up to deify Mary (or St. James, St. Christopher or whoever that church is named for, dedicated to, etc.).

The Ten Commandments specifically outlaw any “Graven Image”. To them, statues of Jesus, Mary, etc. are nothing BUT Graven Images. The same is true of pictorial windows, and much of Church Art. To them, out insistence on having such things is nothing more than a total and complete display of just how far from Christianity the Catholic Church has really strayed.

I grew up in one of those types of Protestant Churches. We were taught that the Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc. were ALL false churches (THE CATHOLICS WERE THE ABSOLUTE WORST OF THE LOT. THEY WERE DIRECTLY LED BY THE DEVIL INCARNATE ON EARTH, THE POPE!).

I had a difficult time with statues especially when I first came into the Church. I had a hard time with the Rosary, the Hail Mary, Novenas to the Blessed Mother, etc. It took a LONG time (long after I had decided to become a Catholic) before i was truly comfortable with those kinds of things.

You will NEVER convince a rock hard Protestant of that stripe that you are NOT worshiping Mary. They look at this from such a totally different viewpoint, that Catholics essentially can not even speak the same language to them. Whatever you do say will essentially be considered to be a bunch of lies anyway.
 
They look at this from such a totally different viewpoint, that Catholics essentially can not even speak the same language to them. Whatever you do say will essentially be considered to be a bunch of lies anyway.
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There is finally something I agree with you on. English is certainly not one of the languages you want to use in debating Protestants.
 
Good summary, Dje101, Bigcat and the Old Medic.

I hope it will help some to see why some of us have such a hard time with anything Marian - not because we don’t consider her blessed among all women, but because of everything you all stated. Not because we want to revile her.

I was given this “First Saturdays Devotion” which says that at Fatima, five first Saturdays were requested to atone for the five ways in which people offend the immaculate heart of Mary. I was supposed to read this part with the rest of the congregation:
It is sometimes asked why Our Lady asked for Communions of reparation on five first Saturdays, instead of some other number. Our Blessed Lord answered that question when He appeared to Sr. Lucia May 29, 1930. He explained that it was because of five kinds of offenses and blasphemies against the Immaculate Heart of Mary, namely: blasphemies against her Immaculate Conception, against her perpetual virginity, against the divine and spiritual maternity of Mary, blasphemies involving the rejection and dishonoring of her images, and the neglect of implanting in the hearts of children a knowledge and love of this Immaculate Mother.
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Needless to say, I didn’t say it out loud.

I think some of us will be like the Old Medic and come to understand things later.
 
The Hungarians before they were Christened believed among other Gods in Babba Maria, who was basically the same as the Sumer Ea, the Greek Gaia: the Goddess of Mother Nature.

To compensate for this, the first Hungarian King, St Stephen offered Hungary for for the Blessed Mary, asking her to be Patrona Hungariae (In 1038 before he died).

This is not to worship her as Goddess, only give her special place in the life of the nation: main intercession

Something similar happened in Mexico with the Blessed Virgin of Guadelupe
 
ProVobis said:
There is finally something I agree with you on. English is certainly not one of the languages you want to use in debating Protestants.
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Hi ProVobis,

Which language should be used? You’re not saying Latin should be used are you?
 
OscarsMama said:
When some people think that Catholics engage in goddess worship by saying prayers to Mary, what goddess to they think that we are worshipping? Who is the goddess Diane or Diana? Where are they getting this?

(This question is NOT intended to start a debate about ‘whether or not Catholics worship Mary’ (because I know that we don’t), but to understand the statements about goddess worship)).

Thank you for answering my question!!
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I don’t know if they mean any particular goddess… I think they just believe we worship Mary because we kneel before statues etc, - I try explaining that we use them as visual reminders, and that respect/veneration is different from worship…
 
TrueLight said:
Hi ProVobis,

Which language should be used? You’re not saying Latin should be used are you?
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Well, Protestants typically hate Latin, unless you can convince them your translations are better than theirs. Might try Greek or Italian. Or you could try Polish. Percentage of Polish-speaking Catholics is about 90% and 70% attend Mass. Which languages would you be thinking? 😃
 
TrueLight said:
Good summary, Dje101, Bigcat and the Old Medic.

I hope it will help some to see why some of us have such a hard time with anything Marian - not because we don’t consider her blessed among all women, but because of everything you all stated. Not because we want to revile her.

I was given this “First Saturdays Devotion” which says that at Fatima, five first Saturdays were requested to atone for the five ways in which people offend the immaculate heart of Mary. I was supposed to read this part with the rest of the congregation:

Needless to say, I didn’t say it out loud.

I think some of us will be like the Old Medic and come to understand things later.
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I’m a convert from Protestantism and was worse than anyone because I actually had a hatred for our Blessed Mother 😦

however with time, I began to love her, by God’s grace 🙂

now - I don’t have a problem with the quote from Fatima… the way I see it, - Mary was always very humble and glorified God. She never glorified herself. But God wants people to know Mary too because she can lead us closer to Jesus. He loves her because she is His Mother. So - He honours her by these apparitions. An additional point - whenever Mary is dishonoured, that offends God - and that is why there is reparation for offending Mary.

God bless 🙂
 
Monica4316 said:
  • whenever Mary is dishonoured, that offends God
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Exactly! It would offend me if somebody dishonored or hurt my mother, too!! I have never heard it put that way, but that really makes a lot of sense! 👍
 
Monica4316 said:
I’m a convert from Protestantism and was worse than anyone because I actually had a hatred for our Blessed Mother 😦

however with time, I began to love her, by God’s grace 🙂
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Why would you have a hatred for Mary? It’s either you believe she would want to be elevated or not, no?
 
ProVobis said:
Then it must have been the Protestants who translated “colere” as “to worship” on the Vatican’s own English-translated website.

Now “colere” can mean a whole lot of things, including “worship” but its meaning is probably closer here to “to cultivate” or even “to honor,” which would be closer to the Italian translation. Above all it must be differentiated from “worship, such as worship to God,” but it’s not the way it ended up. Someone apparently didn’t see the damaging ramifications of using the word “worship” in the translation.
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In modern English, the word worship means exclusively Latria, which is worship given to God alone. In a little older English, the word worship means Latria, Dulia, and Hyperdulia. Dulia is given to the saints, and Hyperdulia is given to Mary. Technically, the Vatican document is not incorrect. It just needs to by read with an understanding that in that context the word worship is taken in broader sense than it typically is today.
 
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