Mary as co-redemtrix

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noorez

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What is the reason that the catholic church speaks of Mary as co-redemptrix? From my understanding, christianity teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was completely sufficient to redeem mankind. So where does the co-redemptrix come in? Does the mercy of Jesus not unconditionally extend to all those who seek it? Can it some how only come through Mary? Will Jesus ignore prayers if they do not some how go through Mary?

…wow… a lot of questions at once! (sorry 😦 ) I hope the general idea of my questions came across okay.

Peace and mercy of God on all!
 
The best writing tobunderstand this is the Catechism. However in short we say that she is co-redemptrix inasmuch as God did not impose on her holibess or the motherhood of Christ. She rejected sin and embraced holiness. She said yes and accepted to becone the mother of Christ. If you check out Revelation 12 and the hatred of the dragon for the Woman, it will be even more clear.

Ultinately remember that the divine person of the Son was purely spiritual and eternal. If He was born in a human form and through tthat human form saved mankind, it was through Mary. If wr can look into his eyes and hold his hand, we must remember that his body comes forth from Mary’s body.

In short: all of Mary’s honor is because of Christ and through Christ. In and of herself, she acknowledged she was a lowly servant of God and rejoiced because the Mighty One had seen the littleness of his servant and done great things for her, and that because of this all generations would call her blessed.
 
Noonez:
Your questions are just fine. It’s a common question Catholics are used to.
This is a great forum for learning more…

Peace in Christ,
Mary.
 
As far as I know the title co-redemtrix is not dogma. I see what the people that gave mary that title mean. But the prefix “Co” does raise concern. When I first heard it, it sounds like she’s at par with the Godhead. I love my Catholic faith but I am not in agreement with the title co-redeemer. Its not dogma and I don’t have to believe it.
 
noorez said:
What is the reason that the catholic church speaks of Mary as co-redemptrix? From my understanding, christianity teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was completely sufficient to redeem mankind. So where does the co-redemptrix come in? Does the mercy of Jesus not unconditionally extend to all those who seek it? Can it some how only come through Mary? Will Jesus ignore prayers if they do not some how go through Mary?

…wow… a lot of questions at once! (sorry 😦 ) I hope the general idea of my questions came across okay.

Peace and mercy of God on all!
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Co-redemptrix in this case does not mean equal to God. But rather Mary is involved in God’s work (by HIS choice … but her assent as well).

The teaching that Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross is “completely sufficient to redeem mankind” needs a little explaining.

WITHOUT Christ and His sacrifice on the cross, mankind could never right the wrongs done by sin, nor build a tower to heaven (as with the tower of Babel) or otherwise save itself (collectively or individually).

WITH Christ - and His sacrifice, a way is now open to mankind to be saved. BUT Christ left some work to be done by mankind (in the way of keeping ITS part of the covenant He offered - and participating in the work of salvation (one aspect of which is believing, another is living it).

Mary as Co-redemptrix is an assent to history. What God DID is to choose HER and Mary’s participation (then) is part of the story of that door opening to us all. By her YES to God, she made right the NO of Eve and by her free will became (if you will) the first Christian … the first to allow Christ into her life. Despite her office, Mary knew who was Lord.

The Lord grants powers to whom He will. And Mary is one of these. Jesus Himself said that His followers would do the works He did … and greater works!

Co-redemptrix then was God’s sharing of the work of salvation with Mary. She is seen to have followed and served Him all her life … and her having the same powers that have been promised to those who followed Christ should surprise no true believer.

The Catholic Church teaches one almighty God. He is not like us though, being almighty.
One thing He has done or has always been is the Trinity. Jesus becomes the word of God made flesh and dwelt among us. But God was not then absent elsewhere in and without the universe.

The Trinity is profound and like many things about God defies complete explanation (though it is revealed). It is SO beyond our ability to understand it all now. But it is not even a miracle for almighty God.

Moving from a Church teaching (Co-redemptrix) to a general observation - God has willed that His children teach one another about Him. He is not now (as He sometime will) revealing Himself in all His glory. But believers hand down the good news of a real, existing, loving God who created each of us, knows each of us, desires each of us to
be with Him forever in eternal friendship and peace. This makes each moment of our lives FULL of meaning (versus for instance the absurdity of our existence were atheism the case and death the certain and complete end of us all).

As we are born, people teach us about Our Lord. And how He desires us to love Him with all our hearts, souls and minds – AND our neighbors as ourselves!

Those teachers become (to a lesser extent) “co-redeemers” or sharers in that Good News of God’s covenant. So that when we die … we will know that we owe a great debt of gratitude not ONLY to God (but because of the way HE has arranged things) other people in our lives as well.

Mary is not only a symbolic person (as a prototypical believer and servant) but a real contributor toward God’s building of the Kingdom. We are to be like her. Serve, share, love, teach, and become deputized “co-redeemers” with the one whom without which heaven would still be locked to all of us.

The term is sometimes misunderstood by some to be making a divine claim for Mary. This is not true. However she is a great saint and highly honored by God (both in her earthly days and now). The Angel Gabriel caller her “blessed among women” and the book of Revelation reveals an astonishingly powerful and crowned woman in heaven.

In other ways Mary is like the patron saint of the Church per her intimate relationship with God and pure and obedient heart … even when she had to follow by faith, not knowing precisely what would happen per the details.

The Church (which the Book of Revelation depicts as the spiritual Bride of Christ at its end) follows the promptings of the Holy Spirit so as to bring to all the Good News of God, His love, His promises and life everlasting. This is also God’s doing - He certainly could have (or could still) appear in Glory and rule us all Himself - but prefers the gentler way of employing “co-redeemers” (faithful messengers) to bring us His offer of forgiveness of sins, and life everlasting in grace.

We thank you Father for all your blessings and for creating us to be your dear children. May we strive to love one another as you would have us do! Amen. 🙂
 
You can talk in circles, as all above, about what Mary is. I agree that is what she is. But you cannot call her co-redemptrix, as she is not that. That title does not represent what she is. It misrepresents her to the eyes of the world.
 
While Capt. Fun and others have provided the definitive discussion, I thought I’d highlight a couple of points.

First, “co-” does not signify equality with Christ (and nearly anywhere you see a Catholic discussion of this, the Catholic side will be at great pains to point this out). I always think of TV shows from the '70s (I’m dating myself 🙂 ), with the announcer’s voice-over during opening credits saying, “Starring Jim-Bob Jones. Co-starring Susy Smith…” Jim-Bob (or in this case, Jesus) is the star of the show. The rest are just supporting cast.

Both this title and Mediatrix are meant to acknowledge that, though Mary was human just as we are, and consequently required redemption from sin through the blood of her son, nevertheless unlike us, who are mere recipients of Christ’s grace, Mary was an active participant in the Incarnation. Already in the 2nd century Iranaeus was calling her “the cause of our salvation”. Her role in redemption and mediation were inferior to and dependent upon Christ’s; but nevertheless she did play an active role. This makes her unique amongst all of humanity.

As a former evangelical turned Catholic, I agree the titles have an alarming sound to them, and a Protestant might quite naturally assume the Church is attempting to turn Mary into some sort of demi-goddess (part of the reason the titles were not adopted dogmatically at Vatican II). Understood within the context of Catholic theology, they’re not so alarming as they at first sound.
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Aure:
Its not dogma and I don’t have to believe it.
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Depends. Neither title is dogmatically defined, certainly, so Catholics are not required to assent to the titles. The theology behind them, however, is on pretty firm ground, so one does not have room for a large deviation from them even if one chooses not to emply the titles themselves.
 
This becomes very interesting and one needs to look at the bible for answers…
Joh_6:44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.
Now remember here that the father os God, because he even commands the true belivers this in verse, as we read in Mat_23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Now comes another understanding and biblical truth Jesus as God, came earth as an demonstration to mankind. This he did with an miraculous birth of Jesus, (so we can have no doubt !) and God chose mary, a virgin woman, for his perfect purpose and will. mary other than being the mother of Jesus is a mere woman, james is the brother a mere man, neither are important, exept James more because the holy spirit teaches scripture through james in the book of james.
How come does mary become worshipped and made important, this is the doings af the minds of men, not from God. Read the bible how Jesus regards his mother, in fact he almost scolds her once.
WE are to have our eyes on Jesus Christ, Jesus the man and Christ the holy spirit and remember Jesus says Me and the father are ONE and to be certain you understand this he repeats this tecahing 7 times, be not deceived by no means of no one.
JESUS can redeem you and save you, mary is of no consequence here; in fact she is the physical mother of Jesus, fullstop, no more no less.
Hope this helps my friends…
 
Jesus never scolds Mary. That hurts to see that written as Jesus respected His mother like were meant to respect our parents. Scold, no I think you are mis interpreting there. We have discussed this in my Theology class and it is truly not the case. As if Jesus would scold His own Mother.

It seems the post I was replying to has just been deleted…
 
I am uneasy about this title for Mary as well. I have no doubts about Mary’s great role in our salvation. No human could love Jesus more than His mother. No human had to sacrifice more for our salvation. Yet, the title Co-Redemtrix brings to my mind an image of God needing help. I know God does not need any help from us, but that He does allow us to co-operate with Him in the plan of salvation. I tthink this is what the title is referring to. Wouldn’t all the saints then, in some small way, also be considered co-redemtrix. Even if on a much smaller scale than Mary. I’m not very articulate in my rambling, but this is what goes around in my head on this subject. Lol. I just wonder if this title is more of a stumbling block for some than it is an effective way of describing Mary’s role. 🤷
 
The title “Co-Redemptrix”, which is sometimes used of Our Lady, does not, in its original Latin sense, imply the idea of equal partnership in redemption which its use in an English context might suggest to the unwary or uninstructed. The prefix “co-” here implies a subordination, rather than equality, but, even aside from this linguistic point, the subordination of Mary’s role in this regard is always assumed and understood whenever the term is used. Even so it is a term whose use requires a careful qualification and explanation, and tends to give a misleading impression, and it is probably better not used. Even as “Marian” a Pope as Pius XII avoided the term. He had it removed from the wording of the theme for the International Mariological Congress in Rome in 1950, and replaced it with the title “Socia Christi” (Associate of Christ). It is not used in the documents of the Second Vatican Council (though “Socia” is).

The idea of co-redemption is one aspect of the more general topic of participation in Christ’s work as Mediator—Jesus is the One Mediator between God and Man. By His life, death and Resurrection He merited salvation for the whole human race (objective redemption), and it is through Him that the fruits of salvation are communicated to human beings (subjective redemption). We may properly speak of a subjective subordinate co-operation and participation, not only by Mary, but by the Church as a whole and by individual Christians, in the work of subjective redemption, i.e. in the communication of the fruits of salvation. The question is whether there is any sense in which Mary can we said to participate in the more fundamental work of the objective redemption.

It helps if you understand what is meant when we speak about Mary as the “New Eve”. Insofar as Mary, by her fiat, consented in faith to become the Mother of the Redeemer, and hence to the coming of Redemption itself, we can without doubt ascribe to her an indirect co-operation with the very work of redemption. Though she did not herself achieve redemption, she did, as Newman put it, “make room for Christ’s reparation”, and therefore in this sense become, in the words of Irenaeus, “a cause of salvation to all”.
 
Falco said:
You can talk in circles, as all above, about what Mary is. I agree that is what she is. But you cannot call her co-redemptrix, as she is not that. That title does not represent what she is. It misrepresents her to the eyes of the world.
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I too think that this title does much more harm than good. Catholics know what Mary’s role in God’s salvific plan was/is, with or without this title. And regardless of people arguing that “co-” does not mean equal, the fact is that it does have essentially that connotation. A co-pilot can fly the plane just as the pilot can. Mary’s role in salvation history is great, and unique. But so is the role of others. I think this title, if dogmatically declared, would be a disaster.
 
Falco said:
You can talk in circles, as all above, about what Mary is. I agree that is what she is. But you cannot call her co-redemptrix, as she is not that. That title does not represent what she is. It misrepresents her to the eyes of the world.
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Look, if one is going to answer a question for someone who is not Catholic, either he get the facts straight or he should refrain from posting. Saints, church fathers, popes have honored Our Lady as co-redemptrix. Tell *them *that they should not have called her so. That - as someone else said - this title does more harm than good. Who knows, maybe *you *are right and *they *are wrong…
 
As I mentioned above, one of the reason for this title is her assent to become the mother of Christ, her yes, her fiat. This is exactly what Church Father Irenaeus teaches as he refers to Mary as “causa salutis” [cause of our salvation].

In the reference book Compendium Mariologiae, we read that Mary did not only participate in the birth of the physical Jesus, but, with conception, she entered with him into a spiritual union. The divine salvation plan, being not only material, includes a permanent spiritual unity with Christ.

This is supported by Pope Leo XIII’s affirmation that in the Annunciation, Mary “in a sense, stood in place of all mankind.” He further adds that Mary also suffered willingly under the cross and, in a sense, offered His sacrifice to the Eternal Father. It is obvious that Christ offered Himself alone, however those assisting in the Sacrifice bring their particular offerings, personal hardships, etc., and offer them to the Lord to be included in His Sacrifice, inasmuch as they belong to His mystical body; just the same, they also offer the Lord’s own Sacrifice, acknowledging the littleness of their own offerings and the fact that not even the greatest effort, of itself and apart from Christ, can be of God’s use.

This is in line with Scripture, as s. Paul writes:
I can find joy amid my sufferings for you, and I fill up in my own person whatever is lacking in Christ’s afflictions on behalf of His Body, the Church. …] I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus …] I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. …] For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. …] My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, how I wish I could be with you now
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These are just a few items for reflection.
 
noorez said:
What is the reason that the catholic church speaks of Mary as co-redemptrix? From my understanding, christianity teaches that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was completely sufficient to redeem mankind. So where does the co-redemptrix come in? Does the mercy of Jesus not unconditionally extend to all those who seek it? Can it some how only come through Mary? Will Jesus ignore prayers if they do not some how go through Mary?

…wow… a lot of questions at once! (sorry 😦 ) I hope the general idea of my questions came across okay.

Peace and mercy of God on all!
Click to expand...
First of all… Jesus’ sacrifice on the Cross opened the door for our salvation. If we reject God, live a life of serious sin, and are unrepentant; we will not be saved.

Secondly… I view Mary as needed to bring Jesus to us. God willed that it be so. If Jesus isn’t born, He cannot save us.

And I cannot imagine Jesus ignoring ANYONE’S prayers!
 
snarflemike said:
I too think that this title does much more harm than good. Catholics know what Mary’s role in God’s salvific plan was/is, with or without this title. And regardless of people arguing that “co-” does not mean equal, the fact is that it does have essentially that connotation. A co-pilot can fly the plane just as the pilot can. Mary’s role in salvation history is great, and unique. But so is the role of others. I think this title, if dogmatically declared, would be a disaster.
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This is what happens when you use english definitions of words from a different language. You get a distorted logic that has nothing to do with the original meaning of the word. I take it you didn’t read post 14. 🤷
 
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