Mary as Immaculate Conception

[Randy_Carson]

I followed everything…no worries. I understand the challenge you face in this thread.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I don’t deitize her.

Catholics don’t deify her, either.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Perhaps I’m reading it wrong but couldnt verse 50 mean something like: If you disciples will do the will of my Father in Heaven, then you will be doing things the same as my MOTHER and bretheren… Which would be a wonderful compliment to Mary, suggesting that she is doing good things… This takes away from what some protestants like to think of as some type of “rebuke”, which causes many to put Mary on a lower level. Even if it were so, then only Jesus would have the authority to do so since he speaks for God.

Even still, if it were so, it would only reaffirm the obvious… That Jesus speaks through the authority of God, and that Jesus is on a higher level than Mary… The Catholic Church as far as I know has always agreed with this fact. Although I wouldnt advise trying to parallel yourself to Jesus and God, as you are not higher than Mary. You were not chosen by God the Creator to be worthy of delivering his only Son.

I dont know why protestants have such problems with Catholics loving the woman that God -the creator of all things- chose as a fit dwelling for Him to become one with in the woumb… If you think that there was no Immaculate Conception then you are actually insulting GOD because you must think that He would put his only Son in the woumb of a sinner… Which would obviously be unworthy of Gods Divine presence…

We protestants don’t have trouble loving the woman God chose to be the vessel that had Jesus, I can only speak for myself, but I have trouble with you praying to her to get to Jesus…No such thing in the Bible. He is the Way the Truth and the Life…Elevating her beyond what Christ hadis obserd. She was not spoken of much in the New Testement at all, except usually when others are mentioned also. My focus is on Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Then you are calling the Bible a lie, and the Carechizm true…You are in a scary spot…the Bible is the word of God, the Catechizm is the word of man…Lets see, which should we read and follow…Yes I sincerely believe it, the Bible that is…You show me the lie that I have told…In the Bible…Not what you think because I don’t care what you think, I care what the Bible has to say.

 

[TEPO]

We protestants don’t have trouble loving the woman God chose to be the vessel that had Jesus, I can only speak for myself, but I have trouble with you praying to her to get to Jesus…No such thing in the Bible. He is the Way the Truth and the Life…Elevating her beyond what Christ hadis obserd. She was not spoken of much in the New Testement at all, except usually when others are mentioned also. My focus is on Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God.

Leslie, do you find this prayer offensive? If so, why?

The Hail Mary.
"Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are those among women and blessed is the fruit of thy woumb Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death… Amen.

 

[TEPO]

Please read this, as it true the prayer itself was inspired by the very Bible we all come to reflecy on…

simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary
“The prayer uses two passages from Saint Luke’s Gospel: “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women” (Luke 1:28) and “Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb” (Luke 1:42)”

Other than this prayer, all Catholics do is kneel down and ask the Virgin Mother Mary, to help them in their distress by simply placing their troubles before the feet of Jesus… There is NO Mary worshipping here.

 

[TEPO]

Hi Jharek,

Didnt I see you on another thread where a Muslim made similar claims about Catholics “worshipping” Mary?

I honestly believe that these lies have become a global stumbling block for alot of potential converts to the Catholic Faith (True Christianity). The only other huge stumbling block in my opinion would be the disbelief of the Holy Eucharist… But then again, Jesus himself couldnt even convince many of his own followers after he told them ----- (Jn 6: 25 - 67).“I am telling you the truth; if you do not eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you will not have life in yourselves. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life" ------ (Jn 6: 25 - 67).” Because of this, many of Jesus’ followers turned back and would not go with him any more."

But anyways -back to the OP… I just hope that we Catholics can counter these stumbling blocks (lies & disbelief) by continuing to spread Gods Truth.

 

[PRmerger]

Does the Immaculate Conception refer to Mary’s conception in her mother’s womb or Jesus’ conception in the womb of Mary?

Thanks.

Leslie believes it refers to Jesus’ conception in the womb of Mary. She, peculiarly, claims the right to make her own definition of a Catholic paradigm. :whacky:

Yes she was and [SIGN1]Jesus was immaculate conception not Mary.[/SIGN1], He was conceved without a mortal man…The Holy Spirit did it…He was sinless. And Thank you so much for the Bible and the Holy Word to be concidered one and the same. I don’t know what I would have done with out your O.K. I guess I would have believed it anyway.

(signage added by me) [SIGN]but the post is all Leslie![/SIGN]

 

[Randy_Carson]

Does the Immaculate Conception refer to Mary’s conception in her mother’s womb or Jesus’ conception in the womb of Mary?

Thanks.

Leslie-

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2nd Request on this question.

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Thanks.

 

[TEPO]

Does the Immaculate Conception refer to Mary’s conception in her mother’s womb or Jesus’ conception in the womb of Mary?

Thanks.

I know this question was not directed to me, but I cant help but to take a shot at it…

I’m not exactly sure, but I would have to say: — A — Mary’s conception in her mothers womb… Since the whole idea involves Mary being kept from original sin by God… (God can do anything)

BTW - Its an honor posting with you, as I’ve seen other posters borrow some of your quotes on other threads… (Using your name as the reference source of course)

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Then you are calling the Bible a lie, and the Carechizm true…You are in a scary spot…the Bible is the word of God, the Catechizm is the word of man…Lets see, which should we read and follow…Yes I sincerely believe it, the Bible that is…You show me the lie that I have told…In the Bible…Not what you think because I don’t care what you think, I care what the Bible has to say.

What do you think the Wedding at Cana is supposed to teach us? That Jesus can turn water into wine? No - that would just be showing off.

John 2: 1 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; 2 and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.” 6 Now there were six stone waterpots set there for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” So they filled them up to the brim. 8 And He said to them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it to him. 9 When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the bridegroom, 10 and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 This beginning of His signs Jesus did in Cana of Galilee, and manifested His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.

Jesus himself did not want to do the miracle, but his mother persisted. And Jesus will not refuse his mother anything. If this is not the first case of a miracle through the intercession of Mary, I don’t know what is!

John Marie Philomena

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I know this question was not directed to me, but I cant help but to take a shot at it…

I’m not exactly sure, but I would have to say: — A — Mary’s conception in her mothers womb… Since the whole idea involves Mary being kept from original sin by God… (God can do anything)

BTW - Its an honor posting with you, as I’ve seen other posters borrow some of your quotes on other threads… (Using your name as the reference source of course)

You are correct - that is the catholic church’s position.

John Marie Philomena

 

[panevino]

(name removed by moderator);6054742:

Then why do you pray to her? The Bible never instructed you to…the only example of prayer was given by Jesus in the Our Father.

Psalms includes quite a few other examples of prayer incl

psalm 148:1Praise the Lord from the heavens,
praise him in the heights above. 2Praise him, all his angels,
praise him, all his heavenly hosts. 3Praise him, sun and moon,
praise him, all you shining stars. 4Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies. 5Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for he commanded and they were created. 6He set them in place for ever and ever;
he gave a decree that will never pass away. 7Praise the Lord from the earth…

The above prayer addresses the angels and the hosts and asks them to praise the lord.
It is not done as worship of the Angels/hosts…

asking x to pray for us does not always equal worship of x.

asking mary to pray for us is not worship of mary.
just as Simon was not worshipping Peter when he asked Peter to pray for him.
acts 8:24Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”

was the richman worshiping lazarus/abraham when he asked them to warn his brothers on earth? no

Luke 16:27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

 

[TEPO]

What do you think the Wedding at Cana is supposed to teach us? That Jesus can turn water into wine? No - that would just be showing off.

Jesus himself did not want to do the miracle, but his mother persisted. And Jesus will not refuse his mother anything. If this is not the first case of a miracle through the intercession of Mary, I don’t know what is!

John Marie Philomena

WOW… I never even thought of that, but you’re right… There IS biblical proof that Mary will intercede for us… :yyeess: :newidea:

 

[panevino]

We protestants don’t have trouble loving the woman God chose to be the vessel that had Jesus, I can only speak for myself, but I have trouble with you praying to her to get to Jesus…No such thing in the Bible. He is the Way the Truth and the Life…Elevating her beyond what Christ hadis obserd. She was not spoken of much in the New Testement at all, except usually when others are mentioned also. My focus is on Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God.

luke19: 27kjv… Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].

 

[adriancombe]

try Matt. 12:46-50

Too bad I couldn’t bet money.*

Revelation Chapter 12.

*** 1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

---

War in Heaven
** 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
** 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
** 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
** 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The man child in verse 5 is Christ.*

The only woman mentioned is the Mother of the ‘man child’.*

Her children (‘seed’) are all believers in Christ.*

 

[Des]

I can only speak for myself, but I have trouble with you praying to her to get to Jesus…No such thing in the Bible.

Boy I sure hope you don’t ask anyone for their prayers lest you be called a hypocrite. After all, you don’t need their assistance to get help from Jesus right.

 

[adriancombe]

We protestants don’t have trouble loving the woman God chose to be the vessel that had Jesus, I can only speak for myself, but I have trouble with you praying to her to get to Jesus…No such thing in the Bible. He is the Way the Truth and the Life…Elevating her beyond what Christ hadis obserd. She was not spoken of much in the New Testement at all, except usually when others are mentioned also. My focus is on Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God.

Leslie: would it be helpful to you to think of the Catholics as speaking to Mary instead of praying to her?

 

[adriancombe]

Then you are calling the Bible a lie, and the Carechizm true…You are in a scary spot…the Bible is the word of God, the Catechizm is the word of man…Lets see, which should we read and follow…Yes I sincerely believe it, the Bible that is…You show me the lie that I have told…In the Bible…Not what you think because I don’t care what you think, I care what the Bible has to say.

Interesting formulation. However, I must point out that in the New Testament, phrases like “Word of God” mean the oral proclamation of the Gospel by the Church much more often than they refer to Scripture. For instance, every usage of “Word of God” in the Acts of the Apostles is referencing the kerygma.

 

[TEPO]

luke19: 27kjv… Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].

Yes… I see, Mary is everyones mother now ! —(Behold thy mother)—