Mary as Immaculate Conception

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Sorry I should have used the name of Jesus, not God. and yes they do try to diatise her.
 
Leslie_Polley said:
It too bad that all of the colors and font changes don’t work huh…it would have made things much easier for you…Yes she did have other childre, yes she was a sinner as we are and no she was not assumed into heaven or it would have been documented in the Bible,and she is not mentioned after Pentacost…Now I think that is odd for someone you have elevated as almost an equal to God…
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There is only one verse in Scripture which specifies Mary’s other children (and I bet you can’t find it).
 
Leslie_Polley said:
In Matthew 12 46-50…While he yet talked to the people behold his mother and his brethren stood without dwsiring to speak with him. 47. Then one said unto him Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without desiring to speak with thee. 48. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my bretheren? 49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and mother.

So does this mean that Mary is not his mother either?
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No, it means that Mary is doubly blessed for she was both His mother and his disciple. She did the will of the Father in heaven most perfectly saying “yes” to God.
Probably not, however she was there with his brothers, and he held non of them above anyone else who did the will of his Father. He did not speak with them…Mary or his brothers…So either he had brothers and Mary was his mother, or not. I think Mary was his mother and he had brothers, but he did not place any of them above the people he was talking to. Interesting isn’t it.
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The scriptures do not record whether Jesus subsequently went out to speak with them after stopping to take advantage of this teaching moment for the sake of the crowd. However, after learning the the word “brothers” does not mean “uterine siblings” as you are straining to cling to, then you can relax and realize that Joseph had already passed away by this time, so Mary traveled with some close, male kinsmen to see Jesus on this occasion.
 
Leslie_Polley said:
Sorry I should have used the name of Jesus, not God. and yes they do try to diatise her.
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Simply posting lies does not an argument make. If you really believed the Church taught that, you would document it.

Also, you might want to use a spell checker.
 
Leslie_Polley said:
In Matthew 12 46-50…While he yet talked to the people behold his mother and his brethren stood without dwsiring to speak with him. 47. Then one said unto him Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without desiring to speak with thee. 48. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my bretheren? 49. And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50. For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and mother…
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Perhaps I’m reading it wrong but couldnt verse 50 mean something like: If you disciples will do the will of my Father in Heaven, then you will be doing things the same as my MOTHER and bretheren… Which would be a wonderful compliment to Mary, suggesting that she is doing good things… This takes away from what some protestants like to think of as some type of “rebuke”, which causes many to put Mary on a lower level. Even if it were so, then only Jesus would have the authority to do so since he speaks for God.

Even still, if it were so, it would only reaffirm the obvious… That Jesus speaks through the authority of God, and that Jesus is on a higher level than Mary… The Catholic Church as far as I know has always agreed with this fact. Although I wouldnt advise trying to parallel yourself to Jesus and God, as you are not higher than Mary. You were not chosen by God the Creator to be worthy of delivering his only Son.
Leslie_Polley said:
So does this mean that Mary is not his mother either? Probably not, however she was there with his brothers, and he held non of them above anyone else who did the will of his Father. He did not speak with them…Mary or his brothers…So either he had brothers and Mary was his mother, or not. I think Mary was his mother and he had brothers, but he did not place any of them above the people he was talking to. Interesting isn’t it.
And the only person I had to be submisive to was my husband, and since he has passed away, now its God I am submisive to.
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I dont know why protestants have such problems with Catholics loving the woman that God -the creator of all things- chose as a fit dwelling for Him to become one with in the woumb… If you think that there was no Immaculate Conception then you are actually insulting GOD because you must think that He would put his only Son in the woumb of a sinner… Which would obviously be unworthy of Gods Divine presence…
 
Yet, quite peculiarly, she keeps claiming that the Immaculate Conception is Jesus being conceived in Mary’s womb. She was not well catechized about this, yet insists that her definition is correct.

She’s making her *own *definition of a *Catholic *term. Quite cheeky, IMHO!
 
BerhaneSelassie said:
All have fallen short of the Glory of God is a general statement of Jews and Gentiles, no exceptions are made, Romans 3 does not say “except for Jesus” or “except for Mary”. You have to rewrite that scripture to apply to Mary and not to Jesus. Not to mention in the bible "“all” does not always literally mean all, it often is used to describe all kinds, or many. The bible says “For the love of money is the root of all evils;” does this have to mean money love is linked to “all evils”?, no it means many in this context since sin can happen without money being involved at all
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     It was certainly not a general statement...This is a fact!
I cannot believe you put, the scripture does not say Except Jesus, and except Mary. May God have mercy on your soul////Jesus was the blood offering to take away our sin. It is said over and over in scripture that He ( Christ) was blameless, without sin. He was God, made man…Don’t ever put Mary on the level of Christ. If Mary was sinless, she could have died for our sins and Christ would never have had to come to to this earth for us. It had to be a sinless offering… NO WHERE does it say she was sinless, not one time…but it does Christ.
you might wast to read Romans 5:12 too

Even in Judaism they do not believe sinlessness is impossible, in fact Jews believe 4 people were sinless.
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      I don't care who the Jews thought were sinless......ONLY CHRIST was sinless.  And who were these 4 people and where is it written? ? ? ?
Mary specifically called “God my savior” as God was ALREADY her savior, she was saved from ever falling, it is by God’s grace that Mary was Predestined to her position and made an immaculate conception, her body being the New Earth from which the New Adam was formed. If Adam and Eve did not sin and remained sinless it would be by God’s grace that they remain sinless, and God could be called their savior. Her sinlessness in no way is contrary to free will, free will does not equate to sinning, though it often does, the will of Mary, as will all Christians was restored to its state of Adam and Eve before the Fall, having no inclination to sin, Christ says roughly “If the son of Man has set you free, you are free indeed.”
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        We must ASK Him to be our saviour, it is not automatic for ANYONE. It was an Immaculate Conception  because Christ was sinless and no human man was involved in the Conception of Christ.  GOD was His Father.
“yes she sinned because it does not say she was sinnless” The bible does not say many things, it also does not say she did sin. Jesus had a temper at the money changes and throw over tables, losing your temper does not necessarily mean you sin.
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     Jesus had RIGHTIOUS INDIGNATION....He told them to GET OUT OF HIS FATHERS HOUSE FOR IT WAS A HOUSE OF PRAYER.......He did NOT SIN.
No one EVER said Mary was on the same level as Christ, non Catholics claim this out of ignorance and assumptions, Mary has always been taught to be a creation of Jesus and not divine. You do not see many important people being talked about after Pentecost, some of the Apostles are never mentioned again. Mary was mentioned by Paul. After pentecost we mostly hear about Paul’s community.

5… Where does Paull talk about Mary after Penticost? ? ? ? Your right, many of the apostles were not spoken of again, so I guess Mary is no more important than those Apostles…is that what you are saying? If so, its a good point

St Paul calls “James, the brother of the Lord” one of the Apostles:

and Matthew 10 i believe lists all the apostles and their parents and the James’ are sons of “Zebedee” and “Alphaeus/Cleophas”:

Compare

Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James and **Joses **and Judas and Simon?–Mark 6:3

with

There were also women looking on from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses, and Salome–Mark 15:40

You will see James and Joses are mentioned together both times, and you will also see that the name Joses is spelled two ways in Mark “Joseph” and “Joses.” The only Joses mentioned in Mary is called the “son of Mary” notice Mark 15 is clearly referring to ANOTHER MARY, one of the women at the Cross
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        Read  Matt.12:46-50  It will show you Jesus attitude.
IT is Also interesting to notice that Mary had a “sister” whose name was…MARY! (two girls in the same family with the same name?)

James is the son of Clopas (its linguistically the same name as Alphaeus) and James is an Apostle and James is called the “brother of the Lord”, so brother can refer to RELATIVES.
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Randy_Carson said:
No, it means that Mary is doubly blessed for she was both His mother and his disciple. She did the will of the Father in heaven most perfectly saying “yes” to God.

The scriptures do not record whether Jesus subsequently went out to speak with them after stopping to take advantage of this teaching moment for the sake of the crowd. However, after learning the the word “brothers” does not mean “uterine siblings” as you are straining to cling to, then you can relax and realize that Joseph had already passed away by this time, so Mary traveled with some close, male kinsmen to see Jesus on this occasion.
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No, it didn’t say that did it and since He made such a big deal out of saying she was no more important than His other disciples (or followers) don’t you think scripture would have said something if He had…But where scripture is silent, we are to be also.

A disciple is one who embrasses and assists in spreading the teachings of another, which makes us diciples as well…that was His point, its not a possision we are appointed to its one we chose. So you see there is no double blessing, she was only doing what any mother would do…in this case, follow the teachings of her Son.
 
adriancombe said:
Simply posting lies does not an argument make. If you really believed the Church taught that, you would document it.

Also, you might want to use a spell checker.
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I have not written ONE lie on this sight. And you are right, sometimes my spelling leaves alot to be desired. Sorry it bothers you, but you obviously get my point. I will pray for you.
 
TEPO said:
Perhaps I’m reading it wrong but couldnt verse 50 mean something like: If you disciples will do the will of my Father in Heaven, then you will be doing things the same as my MOTHER and bretheren… Which would be a wonderful compliment to Mary, suggesting that she is doing good things… This takes away from what some protestants like to think of as some type of “rebuke”, which causes many to put Mary on a lower level. Even if it were so, then only Jesus would have the authority to do so since he speaks for God.

Even still, if it were so, it would only reaffirm the obvious… That Jesus speaks through the authority of God, and that Jesus is on a higher level than Mary… The Catholic Church as far as I know has always agreed with this fact. Although I wouldnt advise trying to parallel yourself to Jesus and God, as you are not higher than Mary. You were not chosen by God the Creator to be worthy of delivering his only Son.

I dont know why protestants have such problems with Catholics loving the woman that God -the creator of all things- chose as a fit dwelling for Him to become one with in the woumb… If you think that there was no Immaculate Conception then you are actually insulting GOD because you must think that He would put his only Son in the woumb of a sinner… Which would obviously be unworthy of Gods Divine presence…
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Did I say there was no Immaculate Conception…NO. Why don’t you read what I say. This is just silly. Protestants don’t have trouble with Mary, its what you do with her that is offensive. And yes you are reading it wrong. How could you possibly get that out of it. It is all one thought, He is saying one thing…sorry, but true If it offends you tear the page out. I keep my Bible in tact. it was a rebuke !
 
Then why do you pray to her? The Bible never instructed you to…the only example of prayer was given by Jesus in the Our Father.
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Leslie_Polley said:
Did I say there was no Immaculate Conception…NO. Why don’t you read what I say. This is just silly. Protestants don’t have trouble with Mary, its what you do with her that is offensive.
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Does the Immaculate Conception refer to Mary’s conception in her mother’s womb or Jesus’ conception in the womb of Mary?

Thanks.
 
Leslie_Polley said:
Then why do you pray to her? The Bible never instructed you to…the only example of prayer was given by Jesus in the Our Father.
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Does the Bible prohibit us from asking others to pray for us?

Do you ask your friends and family to pray for you?

If so, isn’t it reasonable to ask your friends in heaven to pray for you, also?
 
davidv said:
Leslie Polley;6057068:
Because the
So. The Bible is not a Christian owner’s manual.
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Yes the Bible is a Chrisitans owner’s manual ! It is the Word of God. And the quote you used from James is speaking to Christians to come together, confess your faults and pray together, for effectual, or the prayer of a just man brought in him by divine energy, fervent, meaning with your heart and soul meaning what you are saying, is powerful before God. You must take the whole verse, and usually the verses before and after for the full meaning of scripture
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Leslie_Polley said:
davidv;6057083:
Yes the Bible is a Chrisitans owner’s manual ! It is the Word of God.
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You will have do better than this to convince me. Where does the Bible instruct us on on how to handle invitro fertilization?
And the quote you used from James is speaking to Christians to come together, confess your faults and pray together, for effectual, or the prayer of a just man brought in him by divine energy, fervent, meaning with your heart and soul meaning what you are saying, is powerful before God. You must take the whole verse, and usually the verses before and after for the full meaning of scripture
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Realy, how do you know? There has been no human more righteous (sinless) than Mary, the mother of God. Her prayer are powerful indeed.
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