Mary (as Queen Mother) always gets her requests?

[Rosinante]

…

But, I think this should remind us that ultimately…it is Christ the King who decides.

Pray first to Christ, then Mary & our Patron Saints …

IMO, based on Scripture & Tradition.

Generally, I prefer an ascending approach.

To Christ, through Mary

…as the old adage goes.

Praying to Mary and the Saints, helps us to be of a better disposition, in approaching Christ (IMHO)–who, as you point out before your proposed sequence–is the ultimate arbitor (in fact, we may distinguish further still, and point out that Chirst instructed us to pray to the Father–for though they are one God (bound in love and will), they remain three distinct persons. To paraphrase St. Augustine (in turn, paraphrasing the Council of Nicea):

*The Father is not the Son;
The Son is not the Holy Spirit;
The Holy Spirit is not The Father;

…but the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are one God.*

Hence I’d propose as an ideal sequence, praying first to our guardian Angel; then to the Saints; then to Mary, Queen of the Saints; then to the Holy Spirit, Christ, and the Father.

Hypothetically anyway–or rather, as a general guide (practically, prayer is much more organic, and personal).

 

[JRKH]

Rosinante,

I actually take the opposite approach. Mary’s last recorded words in Scripture are “do whatever He tells you”, and when Jesus is asked how we are to pray, He says, "Pray like this. “Our Father who art in Heaven…”

So I actually pray to the Father first - and primarily.

Peace
James

 

[Rosinante]

^^^follow up:

That said, practically speaking, I generally start with a marian devotion (e.g.–rosary, novena’s, standardized prayers to some of the more credible/traditional apparitions–Lourdes, Fatimaa, G’lupe)–to help get in tune with her humility, and to soften me up to a humbler disposition…

Then I like to pray to a select few of the Saints, helping me to refine and focus my disposition… (e.g.–St. Jude, St. Anthony, St. Joseph…),

Then I like to approach Christ–first with devotions to His Sacred Heart, then directly with whatever petition, offering, thanksgiving, or other purpose for communication which may have impelled me to engage prayer at that occasion (of course, sometimes it’s just saying thanks, and conversing…).

Finally, I like to close out with a prayer to the Father (Our Father, + some words); and on occasion, a prayer to the HS–but always closing out with a doxology–oh, and with a Hail Mary samich’d in between (that is, always finish with an Our Father, a H/M, and a Glory be).

For whatever reason, praying to Mary is just a great place to start. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the redemmption narrative begins with the anunciation (to Mary), and so my approach in prayer, should likewise, begin with Mary.

 

[garysibio]

Rosinante,

I actually take the opposite approach. Mary’s last recorded words in Scripture are “do whatever He tells you”, and when Jesus is asked how we are to pray, He says, "Pray like this. “Our Father who art in Heaven…”

So I actually pray to the Father first - and primarily.

Peace
James

Amen!

 

[Rosinante]

Rosinante,

I actually take the opposite approach. Mary’s last recorded words in Scripture are “do whatever He tells you”, and when Jesus is asked how we are to pray, He says, "Pray like this. “Our Father who art in Heaven…”

So I actually pray to the Father first - and primarily.

Peace
James

I hear ya. However, as I pointed out in my post after yours–praying to Mary helps me to be better disposed. IOW, for me, the Our Father has more meaning, after I’ve been better disposed and prepared, by praying first to Mary–than when I pray the Our Father ‘cold’ (if you will). Just a matter of personal taste–wasn’t meaning it like that’s how it must be done, or properly.

Peace.

 

[garysibio]

^^^follow up:

That said, practically speaking, I generally start with a marian devotion (e.g.–rosary, novena’s, standardized prayers to some of the more credible/traditional apparitions–Lourdes, Fatimaa, G’lupe)–to help get in tune with her humility, and to soften me up to a humbler disposition…

Then I like to pray to a select few of the Saints, helping me to refine and focus my disposition… (e.g.–St. Jude, St. Anthony, St. Joseph…),

Then I like to approach Christ–first with devotions to His Sacred Heart, then directly with whatever petition, offering, thanksgiving, or other purpose for communication which may have impelled me to engage prayer at that occasion (of course, sometimes it’s just saying thanks, and conversing…).

Finally, I like to close out with a prayer to the Father (Our Father, + some words); and on occasion, a prayer to the HS–but always closing out with a doxology–oh, and with a Hail Mary samich’d in between (that is, always finish with an Our Father, a H/M, and a Glory be).

For whatever reason, praying to Mary is just a great place to start. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the redemmption narrative begins with the anunciation (to Mary), and so my approach in prayer, should likewise, begin with Mary.

Go straight to God first. Then ask Mary and the saints to pray for you.

 

[Rosinante]

Go straight to God first. Then ask Mary and the saints to pray for you.

I do this in/during Eucharistic adoration.

 

[Della]

Go straight to God first. Then ask Mary and the saints to pray for you.

We can certainly do that, but it’s not mandated that we do it in that order. Having said that, I pray Morning Prayer and then I add any personal devotional prayers afterwards. It just seems the right way to me, but that’s just me. If praying a rosary or a few Hail Marys first helps one’s spirituality/disposition, there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[garysibio]

Therefore, gpreparing your minds for action,1 and hbeing sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. [1 Pet 1:13, ESV]

 

[Della]

Therefore, gpreparing your minds for action,1 and hbeing sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. [1 Pet 1:13, ESV]

Yeeeeees…so?

 

[garysibio]

Yeeeeees…so?

Where is putting any hope in Mary mentioned?

 

[Della]

Where is putting any hope in Mary mentioned?

I see. As Catholics we believe in the Communion of Saints. That isn’t explicitly stated in the Bible, but then neither is the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union or many other teachings that have been passed down to us by the Magisterium drawn from the whole of Sacred Tradition.

Pitting Bible verses against each other is poor exegesis. So, let’s not play that game.

 

[garysibio]

I see. As Catholics we believe in the Communion of Saints. That isn’t explicitly stated in the Bible, but then neither is the Trinity, the Hypostatic Union or many other teachings that have been passed down to us by the Magisterium drawn from the whole of Sacred Tradition.

Pitting Bible verses against each other is poor exegesis. So, let’s not play that game.

The other doctrines you mentioned are alluded to in Scripture. Not so the Marian doctrines. For example, there is no evidence that anyone believed that Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven for the first 300 years of the Church’s existence. While that does not disprove the doctrine of the Assumption, it at least makes it acceptable to question it. (I’ve been debating that point in another thread.)

 

[DaveBj]

Rosinante,

I actually take the opposite approach. Mary’s last recorded words in Scripture are “do whatever He tells you”, and when Jesus is asked how we are to pray, He says, "Pray like this. “Our Father who art in Heaven…”

So I actually pray to the Father first - and primarily.

Peace
James

Amen!

+2

 

[De_Montfort]

Are you sure about this ? …the submissive part .

Lets recall Mary’s actual words… " Do whatever he tells you "…

…not, “whatever I ask of him for you”

Actually the Wedding feast at Cana proves my point. Mary’s humble prayer is answered and to me actually shows the power of Her intercession. Christ replies in a way that seems as if He doesn’t want to be bothered with it, “Woman what is that to me and to thee, my hour has not yet come.” Paraphrasing. In the end He grants His Mothers request.

And yes Mary’s last recorded words in the gospel are “Do whatever He tells you” Mary leads to Christ,

Christ said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, If He honored HIs Father, what makes someone think that He didn’t honor His Mother and still does eternally?

It’s not an imperfection in Jesus Christ that He still submits to His Mother, It is because He simply wills it. And like I said before, Her will is always one and united to His will.

 

[brb3]

Actually the Wedding feast at Cana proves my point. Mary’s humble prayer is answered and to me actually shows the power of Her intercession. Christ replies in a way that seems as if He doesn’t want to be bothered with it, “Woman what is that to me and to thee, my hour has not yet come.” Paraphrasing. In the end He grants His Mothers request.

And yes Mary’s last recorded words in the gospel are “Do whatever He tells you” Mary leads to Christ,

Christ said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, If He honored HIs Father, what makes someone think that He didn’t honor His Mother and still does eternally?

It’s not an imperfection in Jesus Christ that He still submits to His Mother, It is because He simply wills it. And like I said before, Her will is always one and united to His will.

Look at your DeMontfort quote @ bottom of page. Do you put it ahead of Sacred Scripture ?

 

[De_Montfort]

Look at your DeMontfort quote @ bottom of page. Do you put it ahead of Sacred Scripture ?

I have the Catholic Church to guide me on how to read and understand Sacred Scripture.

I don’t have a mere opinion I have the history of the Church, Holy Saint’s, Holy Pope’s who recommend such devotion to Mary the Mother of God, and who have given indulgences to those who practice it. Not just my opinion…

 

[brb3]

I have the Catholic Church to guide me on how to read and understand Sacred Scripture.

I don’t have a mere opinion I have the history of the Church, Holy Saint’s, Holy Pope’s who recommend such devotion to Mary the Mother of God, and who have given indulgences to those who practice it. Not just my opinion…

Devotions to saints are fine and a part of our Church since beginning. But, teachings of Sacred Scripture take priority. Do you agree ?

 

[De_Montfort]

Devotions to saints are fine and a part of our Church since beginning. But, teachings of Sacred Scripture take priority. Do you agree ?

Why am I getting Scripture alone vibe?

Tradition and Scripture together not one without the other.

Tradition shows one should have geniune Devotion to Mary…

 

[DaveBj]

BTW, brb3, I was familiar with this story in your OP, and I’ve been meaning to post about it myself. You beat me to it

De_Montfort, you are mistaking sola scriptura, which is a Protestant attitude, with prima scriptura, which is what brb3 is expressing, and which is a legitimate Catholic attitude.