Mary, co-redeemer and co-mediator

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It has become clear that the OP only wants his opinion heard. I would refer him to Post 11 of this thread in which Fr. Serpa clearly defined one of the terms in question. Subsequent posts indicate that, if it has been read, it has been completely ignored. Whether or not he was a Catholic in the past, it is equally clear that he is now vehemently anti-Catholic and is here only to bash Christ’s church.
 
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justaccord:
AMEN. And it is true of Muslims, and Mormons, and everyone else I can think of. That’s the problem, in a way, with these forums. If I took all of the catholic responses on this and other websites I sometimes visit and put them together, the result is a confused jumble.

There is one question though that I cannot seem to get an answer to – if catechism #969 is just referring to Mary as co-mediator in the same sense that every Christian is a co-mediator every time he or she utters an intercessory prayer, or is Mary somehow a co-mediator in some special way different than me in prayer?

No, they dont think I’m catholic. You may find this hard to believe, but anyone who is around me for more than about 15 seconds wouldnt think so. 🙂

sdg
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I don’t know the answer to that 🙂 I have only been studying for a year now. I would assume she has special status due to her being the new Eve and perfected in Christ. That would elevate her above the rest of us. But she is what we will be.

How can they tell you from a Catholic in seconds? I am curious?

And what is your reaction to the reformers venerating Mary? Or don’t you believe me?
 
the Catechism:
Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation. . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.
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“The Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the [title] of…Mediatrix” because she “continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation” “by her manifold intercession”. Intercession is a form of prayer. The Virgin is called Mediatrix because she continues to pray for us in heaven. In a sense, we are all mediators because we all intercede for one another. We are mediators because, in Christ, we mediate God’s grace to others through our prayers. It is only because of what Christ did that we can be, in a sense, called mediators. In common parlance, however, the term is restricted to the Virgin because of the exalted status she, a creature made by the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit, was freely given by God’s grace inasmuch as she was the specific means chosen by the Father to give his Son flesh.
 
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Doihavtasay:
I don’t know the answer to that 🙂 I have only been studying for a year now. I would assume she has special status due to her being the new Eve and perfected in Christ. That would elevate her above the rest of us. But she is what we will be.

How can they tell you from a Catholic in seconds? I am curious?

And what is your reaction to the reformers venerating Mary? Or don’t you believe me?
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Because my faith is a major part of my life. Certainly anyone raising a spiritual topic would know quickly that I am a Christian who believes in the innerant authoritative Word of God as the only rule of faith and practice. Elevating anything over the Word of God mocks the true faith that came from Him to us, not the other way around.

The reformation is a complex historical event. Some (especially early Reformers) could never escape major portions of their catholicism – Luther would be a good example.

By the time of the Westminster Divines, the church had sufficient time to study all of the doctrine and dogma of the catholic church (except of course what hadnt come along yet) and determine what was sound and what had to be rejected/ In fact that extended past doctrine and dogma to liturgy, romish festivals, etc.
 
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geezerbob:
It has become clear that the OP only wants his opinion heard. I would refer him to Post 11 of this thread in which Fr. Serpa clearly defined one of the terms in question. Subsequent posts indicate that, if it has been read, it has been completely ignored. Whether or not he was a Catholic in the past, it is equally clear that he is now vehemently anti-Catholic and is here only to bash Christ’s church.
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Amen. This is me shaking the dust of my feet.

Have a good weekend.
 
Ah, I knew it wouldn’t be long before we heard about the Romish festivals etc.
 
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justaccord:
AMEN.

No, they dont think I’m catholic. You may find this hard to believe, but anyone who is around me for more than about 15 seconds wouldnt think so. 🙂

sdg
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:hmmm: I would think that it would be pretty obvious, if you are as openly opinionated in person as you are on this site. Not to insult you, just seems humorous that anyone would mistake you for a Catholic.😃
 
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geezerbob:
It has become clear that the OP only wants his opinion heard. I would refer him to Post 11 of this thread in which Fr. Serpa clearly defined one of the terms in question. Subsequent posts indicate that, if it has been read, it has been completely ignored. Whether or not he was a Catholic in the past, it is equally clear that he is now vehemently anti-Catholic and is here only to bash Christ’s church.
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You pegged that right! He cares not what we say. Only his opinions matter. Justaccord is one of the most anti-Catholic posters i’ve seen here in quite some time. He’s convinced we’re all confused. Shake the dust off–this guy’s mind is made up–may God have mercy on his soul.
 
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justaccord:
I am a Christian who believes in the innerant authoritative Word of God as the only rule of faith and practice.
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I am sure you know this, being a true believer and all, but I will point it out for the sake of clarification. When the NT speaks of the “Word of God”, it is usually not speaking of it as being written down. Consequently, it is Catholics who believe “in the inerrant authoritative Word of God” as described in the NT.
 
John_Henry said:
“The Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the [title]
of…Mediatrix” because she “continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation” “by her manifold intercession”. Intercession is a form of prayer. The Virgin is called Mediatrix because she continues to pray for us in heaven. In a sense, we are all mediators because we all intercede for one another. We are mediators because, in Christ, we mediate God’s grace to others through our prayers. It is only because of what Christ did that we can be, in a sense, called mediators. In common parlance, however, the term is restricted to the Virgin because of the exalted status she, a creature made by the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit, was freely given by God’s grace inasmuch as she was the specific means chosen by the Father to give his Son flesh.
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But for such an important interecessor, it is inconceivable to me that God would have no revelation of her continuing role anywhere in Scripture. The catholic position on this cannot arise out of Scripture in any sense. It must be therefore solely the traditions of men in the sense in which Jesus condemned them.

Isn’t Mary also the “mediator of all grace” according to catholicism? Where in Scripture is there any even oblique reference to that?

I am asking clarification on whether what I see as an imaginative doctrine of Mary represents an authoritative (catholic) interpretation of Scripture, or whether it is acknowledged to be in addition to Scripture.
 
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justaccord:
The reformation is a complex historical event. Some (especially early Reformers) could never escape major portions of their catholicism – Luther would be a good example.
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Oh that’s a good one! Never heard that A/C spin before. If any of the reformers were in error, it is because they couldn’t shake off the remnants of Catholicism. You are a riot!

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif
 
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justaccord:
I am a Christian who believes in the innerant authoritative Word of God as the only rule of faith and practice.
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When you say Word of God, are you referring to Scripture? If so, what you’ve stated above sounds like a tradition of man. Where does Scripture claim to be the “only rule of faith and practice”?

FYI, Word of God for Catholics usually is a reference to Christ.
 
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Mickey:
Oh that’s a good one! Never heard that A/C spin before. If any of the reformers were in error, it is because they couldn’t shake off the remnants of Catholicism. You are a riot!

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif
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You just don’t get it, do you Mickey? We don’t assign super-human perfection to anyone other than Christ, and there’s what I feel is the crux of the problem with Roman Catholicism.

It assumes the “perfection” of “Apostolic Tradition”, come what may. Yet, the apostles themselves were human. All humans are sinners in need of a savior. (Sorry folks, but Christ is Mary’s savior too, infer what you will there…)

So- why is it so “preposterous” that Biblical Protestants don’t put Luther up on an alter of perfection? I mean- Luther was a flawed man, just like the pope of that time- and all human beings.

The very position of sola scriptura is that all men are sinners in need of a savior, thus imperfect - and in need of the perfect sacrifice (Christ).

We are all “in error”. Otherwise, we wouldn’t need Christ.

Luther needs Him just like you, me, and the rest of us- the same is true for Pope Benedict.

So when you laugh at justaccord for saying that the reformers were flawed, you show your Catholic “perfection” assumption that you think that high-level men waving your banners seem to have been granted inerrent ability to not make mistakes.

We don’t apply that to anybody- except Christ.

Try it sometime. You would even find that scripture supports such a claim- about 66 books worth…
 
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Titanites:
When you say Word of God, are you referring to Scripture? If so, what you’ve stated above sounds like a tradition of man. Where does Scripture claim to be the “only rule of faith and practice”?

FYI, Word of God for Catholics usually is a reference to Christ.
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Can any one answer this?
 
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ScottH:
You just don’t get it, do you Mickey? We don’t assign super-human perfection to anyone other than Christ, and there’s what I feel is the crux of the problem with Roman Catholicism.

It assumes the “perfection” of “Apostolic Tradition”, come what may. Yet, the apostles themselves were human. All humans are sinners in need of a savior. (Sorry folks, but Christ is Mary’s savior too, infer what you will there…)

So- why is it so “preposterous” that Biblical Protestants don’t put Luther up on an alter of perfection? I mean- Luther was a flawed man, just like the pope of that time- and all human beings.

The very position of sola scriptura is that all men are sinners in need of a savior, thus imperfect - and in need of the perfect sacrifice (Christ).

We are all “in error”. Otherwise, we wouldn’t need Christ.

Luther needs Him just like you, me, and the rest of us- the same is true for Pope Benedict.

So when you laugh at justaccord for saying that the reformers were flawed, you show your Catholic “perfection” assumption that you think that high-level men waving your banners seem to have been granted inerrent ability to not make mistakes.

We don’t apply that to anybody- except Christ.

Try it sometime. You would even find that scripture supports such a claim- about 66 books worth…
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Wrong my friend. I DO get it. I can smell anti-Catholicism from a mile away. He insinuated that they erred because there were remnants of Catholicism. BTW who do you really think that we believe that some people are superman! I’m laughing again.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif
 
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Mickey:
Oh that’s a good one! Never heard that A/C spin before. If any of the reformers were in error, it is because they couldn’t shake off the remnants of Catholicism. You are a riot!

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif
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Mickey,

You might want to move that smiley above the quote. He’s pointing down at your sig line & laughing. 😉
 
ScottHThe very position of sola scriptura is that all men are sinners in need of a savior:
We believe, as Catholic, that all men are sinners and in need of a savior. Do you think that we don’t believe this?
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Mickey:
Wrong my friend. I DO get it. I can smell anti-Catholicism from a mile away. He insinuated that they erred because there were remnants of Catholicism. BTW who do you really think that we believe that some people are superman! I’m laughing again.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif
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No, but you think they are capable of super-human discernment on all things.
 
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