Mary, co-redeemer and co-mediator

[Tom]

bjcros:

She isn’t a co-mediator, and she isn’t a co-redeemer.

Context, context, context… you are still hung up on “co” ONLY meaning equal. Read back over all the posts, that’s NOT what it means in this context. You are considered a co-redeemer, Mary is a special co-redeemer. Neither of you are necessary, you just assist. Please don’t tell me you never pray for other people. As soon as you do you share in co-redemption. Can you at least u8nderstand co-redeemer does not mean redeemer, it means cooperating with His redemption. Can you understand this concept?

 

[Tom]

bjcros:

DeFide:

Actually one of the few things Protestants are united in is that the Catholic Church is wrong. Also I think that most Protestants have a farely close view with each other at least on Mary.

Who made you the official spokesperson for the thousands of protestant sects? There is no view that all protestants agree upon.

 

[Tom]

bjcros:

She did nothing to earn my respect, but rather it was God.

Then respect her because Gods Holy Word tells you to. Don’t tell me you follow Scripture and smugly refuse to call her Blessed Mary, Scripture says all generations, it doesn’t exclude protestors.

 

[Tom]

bjcros:

I don’t see scriptural evidence for the belief that she was sinless. I am a protestant and I know alot of protestants, most of them would also disagree with Luther or anyone else. It is interesting that if she actually was sinless that it would be in the Bible(but it isn’t). That seems like something that God would put in the Bible.

It is in Scripture, it’s been shown, over and over again, yet you refuse to acknowlege, similar to your refusal to call her Blessed.

 

[Max_Kolbe]

justaccord:

Rom 3.23
Show me some passages that say she was sinless – a claim that ONLY ONE who ever lived on earth can make.

Mary’s sinlessness rests on the merrits of Christ. She was saved from origanal sin at the time of conception. She still needed a savior as the church correctly teaches she she can say “I exult in God my Savior”. Now, I must ask you, how many “Virgin births” were there in History? You continue to place Mary on the level of all woman with out acknowledging that she was wholly set apart for this work, & that at no time in history has the Virgin birth ever happened or will happen again. She is truely unique among woman. We see from scripture that she was consecrated for this work in Luke’s gospel when the Holy Spirit “Overshadowed” her and she concieved in her womb. In the Hebraic mindset, “Overshadowed” would convey images of the Ark of the Covenant because the word is only used a handful of times in the Old Testament. To a Jew, when the Spirit Overshadowed a person or object, like the Spirit of God “Overshadowing” the Ark of the Covenant. It signified marital langauge conveying complete consecration and a most intimate union. So Mary can rightly be called “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” being consecrated for the task of bringing the Messiah into the world. So she can rightly say (before the Holy Spirit was given at Pentacost) my soul MAGNIFIES the Lord. What does magnify mean to you? The image is of a mirror…quite a claim agree? Now lastly, you cannot use the "show me in scripture"arguement with me because I do not adhere to scripture alone. It’s unbiblical (he he) unhistorical and will evetually lead a soul to a “dead letter religion” such as yours.

 

[Max_Kolbe]

justaccord:

Ignorant, opinionated and stupid. I guess I wont get into heaven by my works, hunh?

But you?

No, we are just asking you to use your mouth less and your brain more As far as you getting into heaven that’s none of my business, only my Lord’s!

 

[Tom]

justaccord:

He condemned the words of men, and talked instead the Word of God. You do the opposite.

How ironic, you do realize Sola Scriptura wasn’t even invented until the 16th century don’t you??? Sola Scriptura IS the “word of men” it is NOT the Word of God.

 

[Max_Kolbe]

justaccord:

No I dont think Mary was trying to start cult worship of herself. She appreciated that she was blessed. God’s angel called her blessed. And she knew and was grateful to God that henceforth she would known as blessed, as indeed she is.

Can you people not accept grace as a gift from God – does it have to be Mary’s works at issue here. Blessed means that she received a blessing. She was the mother of the only perfect, sinless human being who ever lived, the Messiah, the Redeemer. It’s a no-brainer.

Another “broken cup” arguement, your spilling water all over your lap!

 

[Genesis315]

Originally Posted by justaccord
Rom 3.23
Show me some passages that say she was sinless – a claim that ONLY ONE who ever lived on earth can make.

In Gen. 3:15 (woohoo!) God puts the same enmity between Jesus (the seed) and evil and between Mary (the woman)and evil. Since we know Jesus never sinned, we can say that it’s total and perfect enmity. Since Mary has this same perfect enmity between herself and evil, it follows that she also did not sin.

 

[Genesis315]

Jesus is human perfection and divine perfection. He has a perfect divine Father who loved His son so much, He gave Him a perfect human mother. Would God do any less for His Son?

 

[Max_Kolbe]

I am still awaiting an answer for this question I posed, you tried to sweep it under the rug ( justaccord & Co.) but it’s back! I think it deserves an answer since you both “de-bunk” your beloved reformers yet you say your in good standing!

So if Luther, Calvin and Zwingli cannot be trusted completely don’t you think that throws the whole “reform” idea of scripture alone into question? Luther knew it did not work, as soon as folks started revolting from “his undersatnding” of the bible the drowings began correct? Calvin and the Anabaptists the same thing. What “right” based on sola-scriptura did they have to question anyone else ideas about the scriptures since they themselves gave license for a world of “mini-popes” all claiming to have a truer understanding? What authority do you have to question any other interpetation of scripture DOG?

I wrote this in response to Luther’s devotion to Mary which he supported from the scriptures to keep the topic on track…

 

[Max_Kolbe]

Tom:

How ironic, you do realize Sola Scriptura wasn’t even invented until the 16th century don’t you??? Sola Scriptura IS the “word of men” it is NOT the Word of God.

A hardy AMEN!!

 

[GodBlessJoanie]

Without Mary where would WE be? Mary had “free will” – what would have happened had she said “thanks, but no thanks…”:ehh:

Bless her for submitting to God’s will!:angel1:

 

[Salmon]

justaccord:

But we dont bow down and worship them, nor are they called co-redeemers or co-mediators in your doctrine, although some of you are arguing they might as well have been

Why does your post bring to mind:
John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

You say that you were Catholic for 20 years. You know with certainty, then that the Catholic Church teaches that worship is reserved for God alone. Worship given to another besides God shall result in the worst possible of sins.

1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

CCC Paragraph:
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: “Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them.” 42 God, however, is the “living God” 43 who gives life and intervenes in history.

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 1, SubSection 3, Heading 2

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, “You cannot serve God and mammon.” 44 Many martyrs died for not adoring “the Beast” 45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God. 46

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 1, SubSection 3, Heading 2

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who “transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God.” 47

Footnotes available at:
K of C Online Catechism
search ‘worship’.

You constantly acuse. Do you know what the Hebrew word for ‘accuser’ is?

Peace in Christ…salmon

 

[Max_Kolbe]

Without Mary where would WE be? Mary had “free will” – what would have happened had she said “thanks, but no thanks…”:ehh:

Bless her for submitting to God’s will!:angel1:

Thank you Joanie, a hearty AMEN!!

 

[Mickey]

It is truly right to bless you, O Theotokos, ever blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim, without defilement you gave birth to God the Word: true Theotokos we magnify you.

 

[Mickey]

Those who depart from the Catholic faith, dazzled by destroying heresies,enlighten by the light of Your holy wisdom, and unite them to your Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church.

 

[deb1]

Without Mary where would WE be? Mary had “free will” – what would have happened had she said “thanks, but no thanks…”:ehh:

Bless her for submitting to God’s will!:angel1:

 

[pnewton]

justaccord:

Rom 3.23
Show me some passages that say she was sinless – a claim that ONLY ONE who ever lived on earth can make.

If you are referring to personal sin, do you think infants and small children also sin?

 

[Max_Kolbe]

Blessed Mother of God, we love you and thank you for leading us more and more into intimate union with your son Jesus our Lord and King! Pray for those who encircle your Immaculate heart with thorns and cause pain to the Scared heart of Jesus Christ. Lord forgive those who revile your Mother. Lord God allow us to to be compassionate and in our anger not sin. In the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit…Amen!