Mary Co-Redemptrix?

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Beng: When did you do this jump shift? We are and have always been talking about the title of co-redemptrix not mediator of all graces. I’m not fond of that title but I have never said that it was not an official title for Mary. All we are talking about here is the title co-redemptrix. Try to stay with the topic.
 
michael servant:
Beng: When did you do this jump shift? We are and have always been talking about the title of co-redemptrix not mediator of all graces. I’m not fond of that title but I have never said that it was not an official title for Mary. All we are talking about here is the title co-redemptrix. Try to stay with the topic.
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No problem with the title “Co-redemptrix”. In fact it’s more scriptural than “mediatrix”

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

1Cor 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.

Next, we will go for Paul Co-redemptrix, Oh yeah!
 
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beng:
No problem with the title “Co-redemptrix”. In fact it’s more scriptural than “mediatrix” Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.
1Cor 9:22
To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.
Next, we will go for Paul Co-redemptrix, Oh yeah!
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Is it time for medications? What do these verses have to do with the term “co” anything?
 
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Tom:
Is it time for medications? What do these verses have to do with the term “co” anything?
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Why is Paul filling what Christ is lacking? Is there anything that is still lacking in Christ? And Paul supposedly can fill it up?

Did Paul say that he save some? I thought only God saves.
 
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beng:
Why is Paul filling what Christ is lacking? Is there anything that is still lacking in Christ? And Paul supposedly can fill it up?

Did Paul say that he save some? I thought only God saves.
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The first passage continues on…

25I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness-- 26the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. 29To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

The question is, if you don’t believe in making known the fullness of the Church to any people other than the Catholics, why are you quoting a passage which emphasizes the need to “teach everyone with all wisdom”? Once again…you’re picking and choosing what best seems to fit your litmus test of faith.
 
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Writer:
The first passage continues on…

25I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness-- 26the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. 29To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

The question is, if you don’t believe in making known the fullness of the Church to any people other than the Catholics, why are you quoting a passage which emphasizes the need to “teach everyone with all wisdom”? Once again…you’re picking and choosing what best seems to fit your litmus test of faith.
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So, you actually CAN explain those verses. Thus that is how it’s gonna be with Co-redemptrix.
 
Mperea75 said:
+JMJ

Ok here is a tough one Mary Co-Redmtrix. I know this is not dogma but it is something I have been reading about and studing a bit and would like. I have talked with a few of my pordestant friends about it and I have tried to explain it through mary’s “co-operation” with God’s grace in her “FIAT”. Any Opinons on this is much appriciated!
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This is the LAST thing you need to be discussing with Protestants! There is practically no possibility of convincing someone who can’t see the errors of Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, OSAS, etc. that they should start praying to Mary. Start with the basics and have them read some of the ECFs to see just how Catholic the first Christians were. If you really still want to talk about Mary before they accept the Church’s authority(Matt16:18) I would keep it vague and along the lines of: “If God saw it fit that Christ entered humanity through Mary, then I don’t see why it’s so outrageous to think that it is through Mary that humanity now has a special access to Christ.”
 
Beng: You have an imagination that’s working overtime. I will leave you with a passage from 2TIM 4:3-4, “For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but (will) follow their own desires and insatiable curiosity,…and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.” I will pray for you.
 
michael servant:
Beng: You have an imagination that’s working overtime. I will leave you with a passage from 2TIM 4:3-4, “For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but (will) follow their own desires and insatiable curiosity,…and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.” I will pray for you.
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Get real. Co-redemptrix/mediatrix is a doctrine of the Church and been taught by ordinary magisterium. Patristic support is as old as the first Nicea council.
 
**1997-APR-9: **During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus:“Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity…In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs.” 1
 
mayra hart said:
**1997-APR-9: **During an audience Pope John-Paul II referred to the role of Mary during the crucifixion of Jesus:“Mary … co-operated during the event itself and in the role of mother; thus her co-operation embraces the whole of Christ’s saving work. She alone was associated in this way with the redemptive sacrifice that merited the salvation of all mankind. In union with Christ and in submission to him, she collaborated in obtaining the grace of salvation for all humanity…In God’s plan, Mary is the ‘woman’ (cf. John 2:4; John 19:26), the New Eve, united to the New Adam in restoring humanity to its original dignity. Her cooperation with her Son continues for all time in the universal motherhood which she enjoys in the order of grace. Trusting in this maternal cooperation, let us turn to Mary, imploring her help in all our needs.” 1
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I think this is a step in the right direction… “Co-operation” or Co-Redemptrix? The first term seems to do a better job capturing the doctrine’s intent and scope. It could still be debated, but, like most of the objectors here, my biggest problem is the term.

By the way… Beng, I came across a post of yours where you asserted that all baptisms done in the name of the Trinity and involving more than a sprinkling of water created a manner of membership for even the Protestant within the Catholic Church. (You did refer to the LDS denomination in this context, however, and that’s incorrect. Unless I am mistaken, they don’t baptise in the name of Trinity. For this reason, the Catholic Church does not acknowldge Mormon baptisms.) This being the case, however, I am at a loss for seeing your point in debating the need to bring our Protestant brothers and sisters to the fullness of the Catholic Church. It makes me wonder whether your earlier comments are disingenuous in nature.

I have other writing I have to get to, so this will be my final word for a time…
 
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Writer:
By the way… Beng, I came across a post of yours where you asserted that all baptisms done in the name of the Trinity and involving more than a sprinkling of water created a manner of membership for even the Protestant within the Catholic Church. (You did refer to the LDS denomination in this context, however, and that’s incorrect. Unless I am mistaken, they don’t baptise in the name of Trinity. For this reason, the Catholic Church does not acknowldge Mormon baptisms.) This being the case, however, I am at a loss for seeing your point in debating the need to bring our Protestant brothers and sisters to the fullness of the Catholic Church. It makes me wonder whether your earlier comments are disingenuous in nature.

I have other writing I have to get to, so this will be my final word for a time…
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If they are adult they need to submit to the Catholic faith. If not than they are a heretic or chizmatic and thus rest themselves outside the Church.

If they are babies and children beyond the age of reason, they will still be Catholic until the age of reason passed. When it’s passed and they do not use the reason to submit to the Catholic faith, then they are heretics schizmatic and rest outside the Church.

This has always been the teaching of the Church.
 
michael servant:
You continue to use the term participation. Mary was part of the preparation for Christ’s salvific sacrifice. She did not take part in the salvific act itself. She was an observer who felt the deep excruciating pain of a mother watching her son crucified. Remember, the true scarifice was not only the physical suffering of Jesus but that fact that God became man in order to do it.
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Michael, thank you for the reply.

I think we need to consider “participation” is a deeper sense. We participate in God’s life through Baptism in a actual, real way. We are called to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass… an active participation. However, because of our sinfulness we can’t do that with perfection. Mary, free from sin, participated perfectly in that original sacrifice of her son; and as I stated, because of her universal motherhood, she did that in our stead… participating with (co) her son effecting our redemption.

A little prayer to help us understand Mary’s relationship to the Trinity:

My Father God, Father of Mary.
I love You, You know me.
Jesus, Son of the Father, Son of Mary.
I love You, You created and redeem me.
Holy Spirit, Spouse of Mary.
I love You, You sustain me.
Most Holy Trinity live in me,
Mary, my mother, intercede for me. Amen

God bless those sharing in this forum.
 
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gmein:
Michael, thank you for the reply.

I think we need to consider “participation” is a deeper sense. We participate in God’s life through Baptism in a actual, real way. We are called to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass… an active participation. However, because of our sinfulness we can’t do that with perfection. Mary, free from sin, participated perfectly in that original sacrifice of her son; and as I stated, because of her universal motherhood, she did that in our stead… participating with (co) her son effecting our redemption.

A little prayer to help us understand Mary’s relationship to the Trinity:

My Father God, Father of Mary.
I love You, You know me.
Jesus, Son of the Father, Son of Mary.
I love You, You created and redeem me.
Holy Spirit, Spouse of Mary.
I love You, You sustain me.
Most Holy Trinity live in me,
Mary, my mother, intercede for me. Amen

God bless those sharing in this forum.
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That’s a beautiful prayer 👍 Thanks!

Anyway, I agree with you. The term “participation” is not enough to describe the role of Mary in the story of Salvation.
 
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tralon:
Only Jesus is our redeemer
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1+1 =2

Water turns to gas at 98 degree celcius

E=MC^2

S = V0t + 0.5(at^2)

Everything else being equal when demand rise and supply is constant, price will go up.
 
Hey benny, what are you now, a comedian now or an einstien? I was talking about Jesus. Show some respect
 
In effect, the Blessed Virgin Mary is a maternal Mediatrix, in so far as she is Mother of the Word Incarnate and our Mother, constituted Mediatrix of the redemption, or Coredemptrix of the human race; constituted Mediatrix of grace, or Dispensatrix of every grace; Mediatrix of defense and of comfort, or Advocate, protectress of her children.

In a more basic sense, the mystery of the maternal Mediation of Mary on behalf of mankind has only two dimensions, the Coredemption and the Mediation of grace, the immediate object of our research. However, the latter quite naturally embraces protection and defense by the “Advocate” of the People of God, truly “Advocate” of the members of the Mystical Body of Christ.

One might say that the title of the Blessed Virgin Mary as “Advocate,” stands in relation to Mary Mediatrix of all graces, as operation follows on and reduplicates being. The argumentation is direct and conclusive: because she is the Mediatrix of graces, the Blessed Virgin Mary works as maternal “Advocate of grace” of the redeemed people.

With the Coredemption Mary cooperated with Christ in our “regeneration,” as “Mother of all the living” (Gen 3:20). Before the Redemption, in fact, we were all dead by reason of the sin of our first parents. It is since the Redemption, including the Coredemption, by the will of God, that we have been reborn to the life of grace. In this sense the Coredemption and the spiritual Maternity imply each other reciprocally, that is, Mary Most Holy is our Mother because she is Coredemptrix, and is Coredemptrix because she is our Mother.

All the angels and saints in this sense are “mediators” or “intermediators” of grace, obtaining by their intercession the distribution of individual graces on behalf of souls who have had recourse to them. But no one of them can cooperate directly in the acquisition of grace accomplished universally by the work of Christ and Mary through the redemptive Incarnation and redemptive Maternity. Only Mary, then, is the true, one and only universal Coredemptrix under and united to the universal Redeemer. i hope this help. bless you all
 
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