Mary Co-Redemptrix?

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Gratias Grace:
Mary is NOT an extra God, she is Christ’s **MOTHER **whom He gave to us. " ‘Woman, here is your son.’ 27Then he said to the disciple, ‘Here is your mother.’ **And from that hour the disciple took her into his own home. **

G.G.
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Excellent post, Gratias! One thing I did want to point out about the above…what I find extraordinary about that scene was that when Christ “gave” his mother to John, John’s own mother was there as well! Yet, he took Mary to be his mother. That is certainly a very meaningful event, and worthy of meditation…what important truth does that tell us!!!
 
I have stuggled with this for quite a while, and find myself in the unenviable position to say that as it stands no I can not give my assent to the :Terminology:

While I agree with all of the back ground theology that supports the co redemptrix statement. I have a lot of trouble with the implications. I know “co” in this case is not meant to mean equal to, however any article I have read has to spent from 90 to 98 % of the argument saying it does not mean what you think it means. To me that is just bad Terminology. Would it not be more to the point of her action to say that she is*** Co-Operatrix*** in the salvation of the Human race.

Peace

Tom F.
 
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tuopaolo:
Mary and Christ are definitely one; they are perfectly united. That is why St John Eudes, praised the Heart of Jesus and Mary in the singular:

ewtn.com/devotionals/heart/salutation.htm
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Anyone notice anything about the following quotation ?​

“I pray, Father, that they may be one, even as I and My Mother are one…” (John 17)

A Catholic apologetics website has a Revised Protestant Bible, or some such thing, which shows how the Bible must read if it is to reflect certain Protestant ideas.

I think there should be a Catholic edition of this, revised Mormon-fashion, to include all those Catholic doctrines which the original authors rather carelessly failed to mention.

It would be far more Catholic than New Testaments such as the Bordeaux NT of 1687, which were translated so as to refer to the Mass explicitly.

I expect to a see a True Catholic New Testament, with the appropriate “adjustments” of the text, in the shops soon 🙂 ##
 
I vote no, it is not necessary to define and promote this doctrine further than has already been done (and in writing and teaching about it, I hope they consult the members of this forum who have so ably done so). Teaching is clearly needed on its precise definition, what it means and what it does not mean. Its meaning is inherent in teaching we already have about Mary and her role, and to define it further would add nothing to our understanding of Jesus the Redeemer. In the past Marian doctrine has been defined as dogma only when necessary to safeguard teaching about Christ and I don’t see that as necessary in this case.
 
But we worship Mary, not only as Saint Mary, in common with all the saints; we render her also a peculiar and much higher worship. This worship is authorized by her peculiar relation to the mystery of the Incarnation, therefore to our salvation, and is rendered in honor of that mystery itself; that is, in honor of God in His human as well as His Divine Nature. Those who reject the Incarnation can understand nothing of this worship, and have no lot or part in it; for they can neither worship God in His human nature, nor admit that He really assumed Flesh from the flesh of Mary. To them Mary is only an ordinary woman, and holds no peculiar relation to the mystery of redemption. She has, in their view, nothing to do with our salvation, and is related to the faithful not otherwise than is any other woman. They assign her no peculiar position or office in the economy of God’s gracious providence. They are offended when they hear us call her the Mother of God, and sneer at us when they hear us address her as our own dear mother. We have nothing here to say to them. The worship of Mary presupposes the Incarnation, and they who shrink from it show by that fact that they do not really believe in the mystery, and therefore do not really embrace the Christian religion, and at best make only a hollow profession of it. There is and can be no truer test of one’s active, living faith in our holy religion, in the redemption and salvation of sinners through the cross, than a firm attachment to the worship of Mary. This is, probably, [why] devotion to Mary is commonly regarded by the saints as a sign of election.
 
The peculiar honor we render to Mary, called by our writers hyperdulia – as distinguished from simple dulia, or the worship we pay to all the saints – presupposes the real incarnation of Our Lord in her chaste womb, and her real and subsisting maternal relation to God made man. If you concede the Incarnation, you must concede the Mary is the Mother of God; if you deny that she is the Mother of God, you must deny the Incarnation. There is no middle course possible. If Mary is the Mother of Her Son, then the relations between Mother and Son and all that those relations imply subsist and must forever subsist between them, and she must be honored as the Mother of God, and therefore of grace, the grace through which we are redeemed and saved.

Now Mary, as the Mother of God, is something more than an ordinary woman, and holds a place in the economy of grace different from that of any other woman, different from and above that of any other creature. She has been honored by the Creator as no other creature has been, for sh alone has been selected by Him to be His Mother. If God has distinguished her from all other women, if He has chosen her to be His Mother, shall not we distinguish her from all other women, and honor her as His Mother? What higher honor could God confer on a creature than He has conferred on Mary? Shall we not honor whom God delights to honor, and like Him giver her the highest honor that we can give to a creature? We are to love and honor the Son as we love and honor the Father, and we are to love and honor Him in his humanity no less than in His Divinity.:blessyou:
 
mayra hart:
The peculiar honor we render to Mary, called by our writers hyperdulia – as distinguished from simple dulia, or the worship we pay to all the saints – presupposes the real incarnation of Our Lord in her chaste womb, and her real and subsisting maternal relation to God made man. If you concede the Incarnation, you must concede the Mary is the Mother of God; if you deny that she is the Mother of God, you must deny the Incarnation. There is no middle course possible. If Mary is the Mother of Her Son, then the relations between Mother and Son and all that those relations imply subsist and must forever subsist between them, and she must be honored as the Mother of God, and therefore of grace, the grace through which we are redeemed and saved.

Now Mary, as the Mother of God, is something more than an ordinary woman, and holds a place in the economy of grace different from that of any other woman, different from and above that of any other creature. She has been honored by the Creator as no other creature has been, for sh alone has been selected by Him to be His Mother. If God has distinguished her from all other women, if He has chosen her to be His Mother, shall not we distinguish her from all other women, and honor her as His Mother? What higher honor could God confer on a creature than He has conferred on Mary? Shall we not honor whom God delights to honor, and like Him giver her the highest honor that we can give to a creature? We are to love and honor the Son as we love and honor the Father, and we are to love and honor Him in his humanity no less than in His Divinity.:blessyou:
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I know that this thread has gone inactive, but for the record we honor the saints and worship Christ. We ask the saints to pray for us, but that is still worshiping God and not worshiping the saints. “Worshiping the saints” as referred to above seems about as invalid a theology as describing Mary and Jesus as equals–as was inferred earlier in this thread.

Another great concern, however, is that the words above are not your own. They were copied from the *Orestes Brownson Society. *I don’t see any attribution for the correct source.
 
may be useful here to draw out a few sentences from this pope in order to help us give shape to the definition of the “Mediatrix.” We have already seen how the Fathers define the terms: life comes through Mary, the cause of salvation is Mary, the advocate of Eve is Mary. Pope Leo XIII puts it this way: Mary is she through whom mercy is dispensed, and all grace passes from Christ through her to us. Neither is Pope Leo XIII alone in such statements, for he calls upon St. Bernard and St. Tharasius to provide him with titles for Mary such as “Mediatrix,” and “Reparatrix.”

We move from Leo XIII to Pope St. Pius X, the greatest archenemy of Modernism and Liberalism in the early 20th century.

Nevertheless, by this companionship in sorrow and suffering already mentioned between the Mother and the Son, it has been allowed to the august Virgin to be the most powerful mediatrix and advocate of the whole world with her Divine Son… We are then, it will be seen, very far from attributing to the Mother of God a productive power of grace–a power which belongs to God alone. Yet, since Mary carries it over all in holiness and union with Jesus Christ, and has been associated by Jesus Christ in the work of redemption, she merits for us “de congruo,” in the language of theologians, what Jesus Christ merits for us “de condigno,” and she is the supreme Minister of the distribution of graces. (Pope St. Pius X, Ad Diem Illum Laetissimum, 13-14):blessyou:
 
The above is perhaps all fine and good, but don’t you think that representing another’s writings as your own is plagarism–even in the forums? I have started a thread to address this (general) topic elsewhere…
 
…Further, it appears that you have once again lifted your first paragraph from another (un-credited) source. It appears your first paragraph was written by Jacob Michael. As an interesting aside, I also don’t even see the stolen passage as directly relevant to the last few posts. (see source below)

dailycatholic.org/issue/04Feb/feb18qds.htm

Why can’t you put this in your own words or share an original thought which is yours alone?
 
i think that the only way to explain this topic is by articles i read. all of them reflect the way i think about the virgin mary. iam originally from p.r. an in most latin countries the respect for the virgin is very high. in most catholics houses you will find a statue of her. in my house in texas i still carry that practice an together with the virgin mary is a statue of baby jesus and stclaire. for me thevirgin mary is like my spiritual mother. whenever something is wrong specially with my son i always pray to her.i know that the virgin was a mother so i know she understand, and that she will intercede for me. and is i use some apologetics sites in some way is to defend my point of view. santa maria madre de dios ruega por nosotros pecadores ahora y en nuestra muerte.:amen:
 
mayra hart:
i think that the only way to explain this topic is by articles i read. all of them reflect the way i think about the virgin mary. iam originally from p.r. an in most latin countries the respect for the virgin is very high. in most catholics houses you will find a statue of her. in my house in texas i still carry that practice an together with the virgin mary is a statue of baby jesus and stclaire. for me thevirgin mary is like my spiritual mother. whenever something is wrong specially with my son i always pray to her.i know that the virgin was a mother so i know she understand, and that she will intercede for me. and is i use some apologetics sites in some way is to defend my point of view. santa maria madre de dios ruega por nosotros pecadores ahora y en nuestra muerte.:amen:
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I think what you have to say personally means a great deal more than what you copy from someone else’s writing. Tell us what you think in your own words! In the US, copying another’s writing without crediting the author, is plagarism and is tantamount to stealing…
 
It is already an infallible Truth. The Church has stated that Our Lady is Mediatrix of all Graces. Without Grace there is no salvation; therefore, without Our Lady, there is no salvation. Of couse, if She had not bore Christ, there could not have been Repemption. In any event, here are the words of three Holy Men:

“The Salvation of those who are not protected by Mary is impossible…Woe to him who neglects to recommend himself to Mary, and thus closes the Channel of Grace. …Woe to those who despise Devotion to Mary! …The soul cannot live without having recourse to Mary and recommending itself to Her. He Falls and is Lost who does not have recourse to Mary.” St Alphonsus Mary Liguori, Doctor of the Church

“Jesus Honoured her [Mary] before all ages, and will honour her for all ages. No one Comes to him, Nor even near him, No one is Saved or Sanctified, if he too will not honour her. This is the lot of angels and of Men.” St Maximam Kolbe

“Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the fathers–among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernadine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure–that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while, on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her. The figures and words of the Old and New Testaments prove this. The sentiments and examples of the Saints confirm it. Reason and experience teach and demonstrate it. Even the devil and his crew, constrained by the force of truth, have often been obliged to avow it in spite of themselves.” St. Louis Marie de Montfort
 
The term Co-Redemptrix doesn’t imply that Mary redeemed. Jesus is the redeemer. What it means is that Mary is the primary co-operator ( helpmeet is as applicable here ) with Jesus. This title applies using the same principle that allows Jesus to be the only mediator to the Father in that His humanity was also divine. His divine nature shares in the likeness of the Father making His humanity a doorway , as it were, to the divinity shared by the Father and the Son. Jesus recieved His humanity from a nondivine source in Mary. The humanity of Christ and the humanity of Mary share likeness as well. That likeness established the title on the physical plane, her co-operation with the Holy Spirit and the perfect human love Jesus recieved from her as well as countless other first gifts Jesus recieves from humanity through her in His life establishes her as the primary human element operating with the redeeming acts of Jesus. As the primary co-operator amongst humanity, acting as a ‘helpmeet’ with the primary acts of redemption she can rightly be called Co-Redemptrix.
 
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CatholicCrusade:
It is already an infallible Truth. The Church has stated that Our Lady is Mediatrix of all Graces. Without Grace there is no salvation; therefore, without Our Lady, there is no salvation. Of couse, if She had not bore Christ, there could not have been Repemption. In any event, here are the words of three Holy Men:

“The Salvation of those who are not protected by Mary is impossible…Woe to him who neglects to recommend himself to Mary, and thus closes the Channel of Grace. …Woe to those who despise Devotion to Mary! …The soul cannot live without having recourse to Mary and recommending itself to Her. He Falls and is Lost who does not have recourse to Mary.” St Alphonsus Mary Liguori, Doctor of the Church

“Jesus Honoured her [Mary] before all ages, and will honour her for all ages. No one Comes to him, Nor even near him, No one is Saved or Sanctified, if he too will not honour her. This is the lot of angels and of Men.” St Maximam Kolbe

“Many have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the fathers–among others: St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus of Constantinople, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernadine, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure–that devotion to Our Most Blessed Virgin is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem or love for the Holy Virgin while, on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to her. The figures and words of the Old and New Testaments prove this. The sentiments and examples of the Saints confirm it. Reason and experience teach and demonstrate it. Even the devil and his crew, constrained by the force of truth, have often been obliged to avow it in spite of themselves.” St. Louis Marie de Montfort
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This BEING a Roman Catholic website I won’t go into how ridiculous i believe such assertions are. To suggest that those who do not use Mary as intercession or ‘channel’ through to Christ will not be saved is highly miopic and indeed, suggests a very cloistered view.

I need not explain (controversy is ultimately tedious) but i’m aware of the Holy Spirit’s presence in my life and my Fathers. Many times my Father has stood up for the truth and witnessed for Christ, he also has been assaulted by Lucifer in a way many of you never will be.

When i take my Communion in the TRADITIONAL (lets not confuse) Anglican Chruch i can feel the Holy Spirit residing in me…if only briefly.

Me nor anyone in my family has EVER used Mother Mary (with all due respect of course) to intercede between them and Christ. She IS of course reverenced (in a way) during mass once, and only once.

So you can draw your own conclusions. That either me and the faithful i know are deceived by Lucifer or we are indeed Christians who will one day share paradise with the Saints and Christ.
 
to writer : sorry about that but there is a lot of people who copied articles from other sources to explain a point. maybe i forgot to put the source this time. Mary’s Intercession Mary’s intercession is most powerful before the Throne of GOD. Was it not through Mary’s intercession that Jesus produced His first miracle. He was obedient to His Mother and acted according to Her wish, even though it was not yet His time to begin His public ministry.

JOHN 2:5 “His Mother saith to the waiters: ‘Whatsoever He shall say to you do ye’.”

This passage illustrates our Lady’s powerful intercession with her son: at her word he performs a miracle when his ``hour had not yet come.’’ Notice that the miracle fulfilled no more dire a need than saving a young couple from embarrassment on their wedding day. As a mother, Mary is attentive to these small details of our lives, and asks Jesus to help us. We also note the power of Mary’s intercession as She ordered the waiters, knowing with full confidence that Her Son would obey, as Jesus was the perfect Son.

Would GOD Himself go against His own Commandments, “Honor thy Father and thy Mother,” (Exodus 20:12)? If Jesus, Who is GOD (John 1:1, 14) disobeyed His Mother, would He not then have gone against His own Commandments? Jesus honors the intercession of His Mother. :blessyou:
 
mayra hart:
to writer : sorry about that but there is a lot of people who copied articles from other sources to explain a point. maybe i forgot to put the source this time. Mary’s Intercession Mary’s intercession is most powerful before the Throne of GOD. Was it not through Mary’s intercession that Jesus produced His first miracle. He was obedient to His Mother and acted according to Her wish, even though it was not yet His time to begin His public ministry.

JOHN 2:5 “His Mother saith to the waiters: ‘Whatsoever He shall say to you do ye’.”

This passage illustrates our Lady’s powerful intercession with her son: at her word he performs a miracle when his ``hour had not yet come.’’ Notice that the miracle fulfilled no more dire a need than saving a young couple from embarrassment on their wedding day. As a mother, Mary is attentive to these small details of our lives, and asks Jesus to help us. We also note the power of Mary’s intercession as She ordered the waiters, knowing with full confidence that Her Son would obey, as Jesus was the perfect Son.

Would GOD Himself go against His own Commandments, “Honor thy Father and thy Mother,” (Exodus 20:12)? If Jesus, Who is GOD (John 1:1, 14) disobeyed His Mother, would He not then have gone against His own Commandments? Jesus honors the intercession of His Mother. :blessyou:
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Just keep in mind that it is actually against the forum rules to post the way you were doing–without crediting the sources. It doesn’t matter that someone else may be doing, but those are the rules the members you need to follow. You were receiving compliments in the past for posts which you did not write! Not only is this a deceptive practice, but it casts doubt in my mind on other things you posted as well. We just ask that you keep your thoughts your own, or credit other for their own writings.

Best Regards,

Writer
 
most of the info i post is out of my own knowledge. and i always put the source when i copied from somebody else. just that in this past one i forgot to include the link. ty an god bless.
 
Wow this one’s close. 117 Yes 112 No. I actually think no - it would be inopportune.
 
yes most definitely!
Our Lady Of All Nations Requests it, as the official recognition of her vocation; in her apparition in Amsterdam.
she says that it will be the final Marian Dogma and it will be her Crown!
by the way this apparition has been thouroughly investigated by the local authority and has been approved by the local bishops

www.marypages.com
 
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