Mary, Destroyer of Heresies

[DadDave]

I wouldn’t take it that far, but I wonder how well-placed our trust is in Mary as compared with Jesus. If through Christ we can do all things, then why do we impute so much to Mary?

Hmmm… I’m sure that many will disagree with your statement. I tend to agree however. Maybe she seems more real and accessible? I personally am a little troubled when Catholics turn to Mary first and only to her.

 

[bmullins]

Hmmm… I’m sure that many will disagree with your statement. I tend to agree however. Maybe she seems more real and accessible? I personally am a little troubled when Catholics turn to Mary first and only to her.

As for me I trust that Mary will pray for me, and that our Lord will answer her prayers when asked in the will of God. (It’s up to me to get my mind in the right state and frame to realize God’s will for me.) But I put my salvation in the hands of Jesus Christ.

 

[ImmaBV]

The fact is that God could have saved the world any way He wanted, but He chose not to do that without coperation of man, and that through Mary. It is through Her that salvation and freedom from sin (Jesus) enters our world. God prepares her enough and trusts her for this task, in fact, when one meditates on their life at Bethlehem, Nazareth, flight to Egypt, etc, He (Jesus) places Himself completely at her care (and St. Josephs). If God trusted her that much, who am I to doubt her? Did she not say she is the handmaid of the Lord? She is Immaculate, no stain in Her. Through her the thoughts of many hearts shall be revealed (Luke 2: 35b). She has no other interest than to lead us to Christ. We are not capable of loving her more than her Son loved her, so we should not worry if all that some christians are capable of doing is pray through her - she will take us to her Son always. In John 2: 5 it one of the few passages Mary speaks directly in holy scripture and she says “Whatsoever He saith unto you, do it”.
We Catholics have so many prayers for different needs apart from the Marian prayers.
I suspect that anyone who doubts Mary has not tried her, and have not really understood Jesus and his approach to humanity.
The same way he came to us, we shall go to him. Through Mary. And at the end, it is her Immaculate Heart that will triumph. So she can collect many for Jesus, snatching them from the devil.

 

[losh14]

Where I have difficulty is the assignment of so much to Mary.
Agreed that

God could have saved the world any way He wanted, but He chose not to do that without coperation of man, and that through Mary.

but also through the Apostles and disciples. Paul describes himself and fellow Christians as cooperators with God. If it was through Mary that

salvation and freedom from sin (Jesus) enters our world.

then it is through Paul and others that faith in Christ is spread. If God prepared and trusted Mary for the task, then He did the same for the Apostles and does the same for holy men and women today.

And yet there are few personal devotions to Paul, few personal prayers for Paul’s intercession. Is it that Christ won’t listen to Paul as much as to Mary, and indeed that Christ will hear Mary when He won’t hear us? Likewise if Mary

has no other interest than to lead us to Christ

, should we think any differently of any Saint in Heaven glorified by the Father? If Mary

will take us to her Son always

do we fear that Paul will lead us to stumble?

I suspect that anyone who doubts Mary has not tried her, and have not really understood Jesus and his approach to humanity.

I don’t pray to Mary because I don’t understand the need for it when I have access to the Father through Jesus Christ. I trust Him to hear my prayers.

The same way he came to us, we shall go to him. Through Mary.

What way is that, exactly? Through her womb? We first approach Christ in His Church through Baptism, a Sacrament at which Mary is not invoked and has no participation. We indeed may approach Christ through Mary but I wouldn’t accept that we do so necessarily.

 

[eddadonkey]

+JMJ+

Losh14,

I have noticed upon following your posts for the past months that you protest too much about Mary. In fact, it seems as if you are angry about how even the Church honors Mary.

I’ve continued praying the Anima Christi daily, and have introduced a consecration of daily work which is nice, but something’s missing. I’ve asked for the Lord so show His Will for me regarding His Mother, but I’m not ready to ask sincerely, and I hate that but there’s something emotional that I need to overcome. I actually felt rather offended - odd but yes that’s how I’d describe it - that yesterday we celebrated the Solemnity of Mary rather than the Feast of the Holy Family. I can relate to the Holy Family, we have two little ones and the days are long and tiring, so to think of Mary and Joseph raising Jesus gives some inspiration (though admittedly I don’t think Mary put her 2-Year-Old in timeout as much as we have to put ours), so I was actually looking forward to Feast. Later I find out that the Solemnity is observed instead when Jan 1st is a Sunday, but at the time I was kinda ticked, like “since when does Mary get yet another day?”

And the thing is, in that same post you said to have a feeling of being “distant” to the Catholic Church.

There is a possibility that your animosity with Marian devotion and your having a feeling of being distant with the Catholic Church are related.

After all, the Catholic Church IS Jesus Christ, the Son of Mary.

 

[losh14]

I have noticed upon following your posts for the past months that you protest too much about Mary. In fact, it seems as if you are angry about how even the Church honors Mary.

I’d stop protesting if I found satisfactory answers. I do wonder about all the honors we pour upon Mary.

And the thing is, in that same post you said to have a feeling of being “distant” to the Catholic Church.

I do indeed feel distant from the Church. Two years ago we were asked to leave the parish we had belonged to for five years and gotten married in. It hurt considerably and took a lot of talking to convince my wife not to start going to protestant churches with our friends. So now we’re at a parish with a short homily and a “just get through it” sort of attitude. I joined a group there for young adults to go deeper in Christ through Eucharistic adoration but it’s a group with a very traditional spirituality so that I don’t really feel like I belong. The suggestion - by speakers, by others in the group, by the priests who minister to us - is for me to explore Marian devotion. No, it wasn’t explore, the suggestion was that I simply consecrate myself to her. “Read Montfort, you’ll see.” So I start reading Montfort and I can’t stomach it.

Which brings me here. The constant pouring of accolades upon Mary. I don’t understand it. I want to be deeper in Christ through Christ. He did make that possible, after all. Why Mary, then?

After all, the Catholic Church IS Jesus Christ, the Son of Mary.

Amen. The Church is the Body of Christ, the Uncreated, Firstborn of the New Creation, Light of the Universe, Savior of all Mankind, through whom alone we are saved and from whom we receive all that is good.

 

[Joseph_LaMothe]

Well Tim, lets look as some Heresies:

The Title Mother of God (God-bearing One; Theotokos) was about Jesus. The Church taught He was God from the start, not some guy elevated to godhead.

Sola Scriptura? Nope. We need the family of God, the Church, with Mary our Mother, among other things.

Sola Fide? See above.

Dualism saying matter is bad, only spirit is good. Nope, Mary went to heaven flesh and all.

Priesthood should be for the most holy person and who cares about gender. Nope, many most qualified but not a priest.

If you are in a tight spot and it is convenient have an abortion. Nope, Mary had the baby.

If you accept Mary then Truth follows. If you reject her you open your self to heresy.

 

[ImmaBV]

loth14, thank you for your comments on my post above. Mary, the Apostles, John the baptist, and oh, so many others helped spread the faith of Christ. The issue here is that only Mary is disputed, that is why we are trying to explain her role.
You are right, all the saints have the same interest, to help us love God more and attain heaven. But Mary is the queen of them all.
I have read Montfort’s treatise on Mary, and I understand your reservation. I think you may better try reading other sources about Mary (there are plenty) especially at the apologetics section of this website, and since you are still praying, I believe in time you will see Mary as Jesus wants you to see her. I like to hear Him tell me “Behold your Mother” John 19:27; and I know She heard Him when He told Her, “Woman, behold your Son” John 19:26. To me, it is simple, beautiful, deep and true.

 

[DadDave]

I understand and feel the discomfort as well and struggle too
May I suggest :
Encountering the trinity blog and podcast with Fr Kill. He uses both eastern and western catholic spirituality.
Also try saying prayers such as the Lorica of St Patrick or liturgy of hours or the angelic trisagion as alternative devotions to rosary/mary.

 

[talon]

I do indeed feel distant from the Church. Two years ago we were asked to leave the parish we had belonged to for five years and gotten married in. It hurt considerably and took a lot of talking to convince my wife not to start going to protestant churches with our friends. So now we’re at a parish with a short homily and a “just get through it” sort of attitude. I joined a group there for young adults to go deeper in Christ through Eucharistic adoration but it’s a group with a very traditional spirituality so that I don’t really feel like I belong. The suggestion - by speakers, by others in the group, by the priests who minister to us - is for me to explore Marian devotion. No, it wasn’t explore, the suggestion was that I simply consecrate myself to her. “Read Montfort, you’ll see.” So I start reading Montfort and I can’t stomach it.

Which brings me here. The constant pouring of accolades upon Mary. I don’t understand it. I want to be deeper in Christ through Christ. He did make that possible, after all. Why Mary, then?

Iosh, the reason you feel distant from the Church is because you are focusing more on arguing against Blessed Mary, than you are focusing on the Lord Jesus Christ. If you want nothing to do with Mary, then just go straight to Christ - humbly, sincerely, repentantly and prayerfully; AND stop spending so much energy and time arguing against Blessed Mary. Christ does not appreciate anybody arguing against His Blessed Mother. If you do not want a spiritual relationship with Blessed Mary, then go ahead and skip her. You do not need Blessed Mary in order to be saved, but STOP going out of your way to argue, both to people and in your own mind, against her. Although Christ gave us His Blessed Mother while He suffered on the cross, you do not have to accept her in order to be saved by Christ, but STOP spending so much time arguing against her. It’s no wonder you feel so distant from the Church. Your main priority seems to be arguing against Mary, both in your mind and to people, rather than seeking, loving and knowing the Lord with all your strength. This very act is preventing you from receiving the Lord’s graces He is trying to rain down on you.

You also said “I don’t really feel like I belong” to a Eucharistic adoration group that is traditional in spirituality. Quit focusing on you. You are being selfish and self-centered. It’s NOT about how you feel or what you get out of it. Rather, it’s what you put in to it. What matters is your worship and glorifying of the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Of course YOU DO BELONG because it is Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Everyone belongs there regardless of how they feel. You should also try to use the silence during the Eucharistic adoration to hear and listen to Christ speaking to you. It is in silence with the Lord do we realize we are nothing. Only then, with our pride and passions in check, will He fill you with Himself.