Mary did not have sin

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
BTW: Contradictions? Not my belief,but yours is so full of contradictions that even the early church fathers teachings conflict with your novel beliefs.

Thanks for your opinion.

Not an opinion…a fact you cannot seem to swallow! And thanks for displaying your deep ignorance of early chuch history!

Quote:
He or she can point them out all day long,but will not make a difference as to what history testifies.That is his or her misunderstandings,not mine.Again,I am not the first person to come up with such a belief;moreoever, I am giving the same belief of the early church and that is what bugs him or her.

The contradictions are yours not history’s.

Do not let your pride get in the way…okay? My belief is in accord with the ancient church of history as oppose to your “johnny-come-lately” church beliefs.

Quote:
As for the RCC being perfect? We are not even discussing the church being perfect,so why even mention it?

I’ve forgotten the context. If you go back and trace it through, maybe you’ll understand.

No need to go back.The topic is about Mary,not the RCC being perfect! Maybe it is you who has a comprehension issue.

 

[LionHeart777]

I am sure that your mind is not used to submitting to the force of God’s infallible word, but nevertheless, the Scriptures cannot be broken.

And you are qualified to judge what my mind is used to submitting to?

Anyway,

“You alone and your Mother,
are more beautiful than any others;
For there is no blemish in you,
nor any stains upon your Mother.
Who of my children
can compare in beauty to these?” (St. Ephraim, The Nisibene Hymns ca. 370 A.D.)
(The Faith of the Early Fathers: Volume 1, Jurgens, William A., The Litiurgical Press, Collegeville, Minnesota: 1970. Pg. 313)

 

[LionHeart777]

No problem. Thank you.

What do you think was Jesus’ understanding when He quoted it?

I would think (my opinion) that Jesus’ understanding was perfect. He knew exactly what Moses meant.

 

[andrewv33]

Are there any exceptions to the word ‘All’?
What about Jesus Christ? Did He in His humanity ever sin?
What about babies and those with a mental retardation who have no reasoning power? Have they sinned? Have children below the age of reason sinned? Have comatose and senile people sinned? As you can see, there are exceptions.

Luke 1:6, regarding Zachary and Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist, “Both were just before GOD, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord”.

Luke 1:15, regarding John the Baptist, “For he shall be great before the Lord; he shall drink no wine or strong drink, and shall be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mothers womb”.

Do these verses sound as if Zachary, Elizabeth, and John the Baptist have sinned?

You can readily see that there are many exceptions to the term ‘All have sinned’. Since I have shown there are many exceptions to the word ‘ALL’, why then should anyone not allow one more exception, the Mother of GOD?Are there any exceptions to the word ‘All’?
What about Jesus Christ? Did He in His humanity ever sin?
What about babies and those with a mental retardation who have no reasoning power? Have they sinned? Have children below the age of reason sinned? Have comatose and senile people sinned? As you can see, there are exceptions.

Luke 1:6, regarding Zachary and Elizabeth, the parents of John the Baptist, “Both were just before GOD, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord”.

Luke 1:15, regarding John the Baptist, “For he shall be great before the Lord; he shall drink no wine or strong drink, and shall be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mothers womb”.

Do these verses sound as if Zachary, Elizabeth, and John the Baptist have sinned?

You can readily see that there are many exceptions to the term ‘All have sinned’. Since I have shown there are many exceptions to the word ‘ALL’, why then should anyone not allow one more exception, the Mother of GOD? CATHLOIC TREASER CHEST

The bottom line Mary was a sinner, based on biblical statement, she had more children as per the bible scripture and she therefore CANNOT BE VIRGIN ANYMORE!

She also states in the bible that she is not above GOD! she is his servant! Therefore she cannot be a mediatrix.

geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/5614/pmary.htm

 

[benidict]

Jesus who is God, also came as a servant. does that mean he cannot be our mediator? peace

 

[benidict]

The bottom line Mary was a sinner, based on biblical statement, she had more children as per the bible scripture and she therefore CANNOT BE VIRGIN ANYMORE!

She also states in the bible that she is not above GOD! she is his servant! Therefore she cannot be a mediatrix.

geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/5614/pmary.htm

such emphatic, and authoritative statements. how did you arrive at your theology andrew. and by what authority do you make these claims? self taught? or do you have a pastor that you are accountable too? peace

 

[andrewv33]

such emphatic, and authoritative statements. how did you arrive at your theology andrew. and by what authority do you make these claims? self taught? or do you have a pastor that you are accountable too? peace

Peace indeed my friend, self thought as per what the bible says and not human reasoning, i cannot look at someone with a straight face and proclaim to you that a person is virgin after having a few children… i dont think i need to have a theology background to know this…

i have also provided scriptural/biblical proof that yes she too was a sinner and i do not come to you with human reasoning but scriptural.

I believe why we differ so much on this point is because i take the bible as the authority WORD OF GOD supreme above all, and your position and reasoning is by the Catholic doctrine… so here we differ and we go our separate way

My faith is based on the bible only.

• I only worship God in spirit!
• I never use repetitious prayers, since God does not like that!
• I only speak according to Gods law and no other laws set by man.
• My knowledge only comes from God and only God can impart wisdom!
• I read and study as much as i can since that is what God wants and commands us/me to do, to be able to discern false doctrines that have infiltrated the true teachings of the bible with that mans traditions.
• The bible is not for my personal interpretation
• Biblical knowledge lets me see the errors i might commit, and not let my carnal mind get the better of me or let myself give in to human reasoning.
• I search for the truth because God promises that he will answer. And he does.
• I seek wisdom and biblical understanding so i might not be deceived by false doctrine.
• I am then able to clearly discern between peoples traditions that are aimed at God, yet He is intolerant of them since they are not by his law/commandments.
• I know that ones death is better than ones birthday celebration.
• What i say i do not add or take away from Gods word…

They are my beliefs, and they are all biblical commandments!
To say contrary is to reject the bible!

 

[benidict]

Peace indeed my friend, self thought as per what the bible says and not human reasoning, i cannot look at someone with a straight face and proclaim to you that a person is virgin after having a few children… i dont think i need to have a theology background to know this…

i have also provided scriptural/biblical proof that yes she too was a sinner and i do not come to you with human reasoning but scriptural.

I believe why we differ so much on this point is because i take the bible as the authority WORD OF GOD supreme above all, and your position and reasoning is by the Catholic doctrine… so here we differ and we go our separate way

My faith is based on the bible only.

• I only worship God in spirit!
• I never use repetitious prayers, since God does not like that!
• I only speak according to Gods law and no other laws set by man.
• My knowledge only comes from God and only God can impart wisdom!
• I read and study as much as i can since that is what God wants and commands us/me to do, to be able to discern false doctrines that have infiltrated the true teachings of the bible with that mans traditions.
• The bible is not for my personal interpretation
• Biblical knowledge lets me see the errors i might commit, and not let my carnal mind get the better of me or let myself give in to human reasoning.
• I search for the truth because God promises that he will answer. And he does.
• I seek wisdom and biblical understanding so i might not be deceived by false doctrine.
• I am then able to clearly discern between peoples traditions that are aimed at God, yet He is intolerant of them since they are not by his law/commandments.
• I know that ones death is better than ones birthday celebration.
• What i say i do not add or take away from Gods word…

They are my beliefs, and they are all biblical commandments!
To say contrary is to reject the bible!

thank you my friend. this helps me understand where you are coming from better. there are many ways i could go with this, but they would all be off topic. just one more quick question, then i will converse about the Holy Mother with you. are you part of a local congregation, and are you accountable to anyone such as a friend or pastor, with your scriptural interpretations? thx in advance. the Blessed Mother is one of my favorite topics.Peace to you

 

[andrewv33]

thank you my friend. this helps me understand where you are coming from better. there are many ways i could go with this, but they would all be off topic. just one more quick question, then i will converse about the Holy Mother with you. are you part of a local congregation, and are you accountable to anyone such as a friend or pastor, with your scriptural interpretations? thx in advance. the Blessed Mother is one of my favorite topics.Peace to you

Thank you friend… its all good…
You asked me if i belong to a denomination, i do not want to slot my self into a denomination… yes i do go to church, is my inspiration from man? Not all, but mostly from GOD did the disciples belong to a denomination?

My faith is based on the bible only.

• I only worship God in spirit!
  **Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. **
• I never use repetitious prayers, since God does not like that!
  **Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. **
• I only speak according to Gods law and no other laws set by man.
  **Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
  Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
  Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
  Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
  Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
  2Co 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
  Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
  **
• My knowledge only comes from God and only God can impart wisdom!
  **Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: **
• I read and study as much as i can since that is what God wants and commands us/me to do, to be able to discern false doctrines that have infiltrated the true teachings of the bible with that mans traditions.
  **1Th 5:21 prove all things; hold fast that which is good;
  1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
  Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
  Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
  Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
  **
• The bible is not for my personal interpretation
  **2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. **
• Biblical knowledge lets me see the errors i might commit, and not let my carnal mind get the better of me or let myself give in to human reasoning.
  **2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. **
• I search for the truth because God promises that he will answer. And he does.
• I seek wisdom and biblical understanding so i might not be deceived by false doctrine.
  **Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
  Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
  Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
  Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
  Luk 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
  **
• I am then able to clearly discern between peoples traditions that are aimed at God, yet He is intolerant of them since they are not by his law/commandments.
  Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
  Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
  Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
  Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

 

[andrewv33]

thank you my friend. this helps me understand where you are coming from better. there are many ways i could go with this, but they would all be off topic. just one more quick question, then i will converse about the Holy Mother with you. are you part of a local congregation, and are you accountable to anyone such as a friend or pastor, with your scriptural interpretations? thx in advance. the Blessed Mother is one of my favorite topics.Peace to you

• I know that ones death is better than ones birthday celebration.

**Ecc 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth. Ecc 7:8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof; and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit. **

• What i say i do not add or take away from Gods word…

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Deuteronomy 4:2
Deuteronomy 12:32
Proverbs 30:5-6
Revelation 22:18-19
Galatians 1:6-12

just so you may understand my position, i know we are off the subject but you asked and i complied.

 

[LionHeart777]

Andrew,

Does the Bible condemn repitition or vain repitition?

As Sr. Rosalind Moss has pointed out, the Psalms are repetitive are they not?

I digress…

 

[benidict]

• I know that ones death is better than ones birthday celebration.

**Ecc 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one’s birth. Ecc 7:8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof; and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit. **

• What i say i do not add or take away from Gods word…

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Deuteronomy 4:2
Deuteronomy 12:32
Proverbs 30:5-6
Revelation 22:18-19
Galatians 1:6-12

just so you may understand my position, i know we are off the subject but you asked and i complied.

and i thank you my friend. ok, this helps. my first question in reguards to the Blessed Mother. do you know who the ark of the covenant typifies? throughout the o.t. we have many signs pointing to the messiah. the ark is no different. it typifies a specific person. i would be interested in your views, and i will answer you. and yes, we can do this with scripture alone. Peace

 

[Dokimas]

I would think (my opinion) that Jesus’ understanding was perfect. He knew exactly what Moses meant.

And what did Jesus know Moses meant?

 

[Nicea325]

The bottom line Mary was a sinner, based on biblical statement, she had more children as per the bible scripture and she therefore CANNOT BE VIRGIN ANYMORE!

She also states in the bible that she is not above GOD! she is his servant! Therefore she cannot be a mediatrix.

geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/5614/pmary.htm

Mary DID NOT HAVE OTHER CHILDREN! You have practice a poor biblical exegesis. NO WHERE does Scripture state Mary gave birth to other children.

Forget the common misqouted biblcial verses and terms.

 

[Nicea325]

My faith is based on the bible only.

A man-made tradition fabricated by Protestant reformers.

• I never use repetitious prayers, since God does not like that!

A huge error taught by many non-Catholics! Did not Jesus repeat His prayers at the garden? Yep! By the way, even my New King James Study clearly says that there is NOTHING wrong with repeating prayers. Jesus was not against repetition,but vainful and empty prayer. Sorry,but you are wrong.

• I only speak according to Gods law and no other laws set by man.

Then show us where Jesus taught the bible-only and nothing else?

• My knowledge only comes from God and only God can impart wisdom!

Then it is amazing how so many believe what you do and yet there exists thousands of different churches teaching different things? God’s wisdom or man’s wisdom?

I read and study as much as i can since that is what God wants and commands us/me to do, to be able to discern false doctrines that have infiltrated the true teachings of the bible with that mans traditions.

God wants us to read and study? I am curious to know what happened to miilions who had no Bible and could not read? Then show us where God taught the Bible-Only exclusively?

• The bible is not for my personal interpretation

Which is exactly what millions have been doing for way to long and has lead to massive divisions due to personal interpretations.

Biblical knowledge lets me see the errors i might commit, and not let my carnal mind get the better of me or let myself give in to human reasoning.

Like the error of the Bible-Only?

• I search for the truth because God promises that he will answer. And he does.

Yes search and follow His truth,not the thousands of different ‘truths’ so many teach.

• I seek wisdom and biblical understanding so i might not be deceived by false doctrine.

Such as the Bible-Only doctrine.

They are my beliefs, and they are all biblical commandments!
To say contrary is to reject the bible!

God commanded the Bible-only? Where?

 

[AmateurPianist]

Mary DID NOT HAVE OTHER CHILDREN! You have practice a poor biblical exegesis. NO WHERE does Scripture state Mary gave birth to other children.

Forget the common misqouted biblcial verses and terms.

Let’s say for a minute Scripture does not say Mary gave birth to other children.

It does not necessarily follow that Mary

DID NOT HAVE OTHER CHILDREN!

You are practicing poor biblical exegesis if you make this assumption.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
Mary DID NOT HAVE OTHER CHILDREN! You have practice a poor biblical exegesis. NO WHERE does Scripture state Mary gave birth to other children.

Forget the common misqouted biblcial verses and terms.

Let’s say for a minute Scripture does not say Mary gave birth to other children.

Because it does not say she gave birth to other children. Show me where it does,so I to can join the ranks of thousands of different churches.

It does not necessarily follow that Mary
Quote:
DID NOT HAVE OTHER CHILDREN!

You are practicing poor biblical exegesis if you make this assumption.

Assumption? Ooppose to the assumption she did? That in itself is poor biblical exegesis. Even the early Protestant reformers disagree with the modern belief Mary had other children.

 

[andrewv33]

Andrew,

Does the Bible condemn repitition or vain repitition?

As Sr. Rosalind Moss has pointed out, the Psalms are repetitive are they not?

I digress…

Dear friend indeed we are getting side tracked! But here is your answer!
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
This is plain simple text! Easy to understand! When you pray dont use repetition!
I speak to you and i do not change or twist the bible through human login or twist it by reason or philosophy… Remember we need to have a relationship with God **Psa 139:17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
Psa 139:18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. **

Be careful not to fall into this trap of being “Thinkers and Philosophers”
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 

[andrewv33]

A man-made tradition fabricated by Protestant reformers.

A huge error taught by many non-Catholics! Did not Jesus repeat His prayers at the garden? Yep! By the way, even my New King James Study clearly says that there is NOTHING wrong with repeating prayers. Jesus was not against repetition,but vainful and empty prayer. Sorry,but you are wrong.

Then show us where Jesus taught the bible-only and nothing else?

Then it is amazing how so many believe what you do and yet there exists thousands of different churches teaching different things? God’s wisdom or man’s wisdom?
God wants us to read and study? I am curious to know what happened to miilions who had no Bible and could not read? Then show us where God taught the Bible-Only exclusively?

Which is exactly what millions have been doing for way to long and has lead to massive divisions due to personal interpretations.
Like the error of the Bible-Only?

Yes search and follow His truth,not the thousands of different ‘truths’ so many teach.

Such as the Bible-Only doctrine.

God commanded the Bible-only? Where?

Hello and thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
Please do not take what i said out of context since i have already answered you in post #90 and #91 with biblical verses! What is say is not contrary to the bible and the verses i have provided are in simple language.

 

[benidict]

psalm 135 is a very good example of repetitious prayer. “For his mercy endureth forever”. all 27 verses this phrase is repeated. Peace