Mary Did You Know???

[Ridgerunner]

Agreed to all points; but I think what is in dispute here is whether this song in particular (and, by extension, any old song) is appropriate for use in a liturgical setting. I am of the opinion that songs used for Mass must be carefully selected so as to enhance the mass and to reinforce Church teachings. This song, while it is nice, doesn’t meet those requirements for use in Mass. I’m not sure that any song that is “just a song” meets those requirements. For Mass, we should be using only the best.

I neglected to mention that the song is only sung in parishes around here at Christmas. I think that’s a bit different, perhaps.

Besides, I’m partly Italian, and latitude must always be given to even partial Italians. Who else would sing a song about a boat on St. Lucy’s Day?

 

[CWBetts]

I neglected to mention that the song is only sung in parishes around here at Christmas. I think that’s a bit different, perhaps.

Besides, I’m partly Italian, and latitude must always be given to even partial Italians. Who else would sing a song about a boat on St. Lucy’s Day?

When its sung is irrelevant, not when there are so many theologically sound carols to choose from

 

[Benedictine]

Wow! What has my original post caused???

I didn’t mean to start any arguments or anything. I just had to let off some pressure from last Sunday’s mass. Imagine, of all the music the new music director could have chosen, she goes completely sappy, happy-clappy, and (self-censored) on us!

But then again, that is her style. Her bible is the Haugan-Haas songbook.

Yes, I know, I not being very charitable here, and I am sorry for that, believe me. I just cannot imagine why she does this! Sing A New Church and Mary Did You Know is enough to make one renounce their US citizenship.

Well Benedictine, some of you may say, if you think you can do better, why don’t you join the choir? Hey, I just may do that! Or not.

Sigh. I really, really need a Tridentine Latin Mass right about now! :sad_yes:

 

[MusicMan]

Exactomundo!! I think you hit the nail on the head here, AW. It seems that some here would want all our liturgical music to lack artistic reflection, perhaps going back to the gregorian chants? Just a littany of singing church documents?

Something like this, perhaps, might be acceptable:

Mary, you must have known
That your baby boy will one day walk on water
you must have known
That your baby boy will save our sons and daughters
you must have known
That your baby boy has come to make you newalthoughyou’vebeenpreservedfromoriginalsin
This child that youve delivered
Will soon deliver youalthoughyou’vebeenpreservedfromoriginalsin
Mary, you must have known

You guys really don’t want me to find a chant mode to set this with, pull out my H2, and put an mp3 here of these lyrics chanted, do you?

 

[pnewton]

We didn’t get “Mary Did You Know?” but were instead subjected to “Hail Mary/Gentle Woman.” Which, actually

That’s the one I did, at least the first part. I figured that was one song no one could object to.

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you; blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen
I like the song Mary, Did You Know and believe it does what it was meant to do, emphasize the connection between the creche and the cross, as well as show a solid belief in the deity of Christ from birth.

I would never do it in Mass for the same reason many here do not like it. I think there is too much confusion and misunderstanding. The question, “Mary, did you know?” is not equal to the statement “Mary did not know.” This is a stumbling block for many, though.

 

[benedictgal]

I don’t know if one can say that the song has an anti-Catholic undertone. I suppose at worst it has a non-Catholic undertone, but I wouldn’t call it anti-Catholic merely because it doesn’t line up with Church teaching about Mary.

Actually, the fact that it was written by a Protestant who does not believe in the Church’s Marian doctrine is reason enough not to include this song in any lineup for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The song stands squarely to the opposite of what the Church teaches about Mary.

How can you not say that it is Anti-Catholic, especially when it does not conform to the Church’s teachings on Mary? That statement, with all due respect, does not make any sense. Remember that for music to be used within the Church’s liturgy, it must conform to the Church’s teachings. This song does not.

 

[MusicMan]

Fortunately, it’s only your opinion.

 

[Hiromu]

We had the opportunity to hear this after Communion at our church - the person who sang, who has this great deep voice, pulled out a guitar from nowhere and sang a folk rendition of it (as if there is any other). It sounded like the BK commercial when the guy is getting kicked out of his apartment by his girlfriend or like Jonathan Richman in “Something About Mary”…

Not appropriate for church…

 

[CWBetts]

What is it with people who think that CHurch teaching is some fluid thing?? This song is clearly aginst teaching, and all of a sudden, the Immacualte Conception becomes a matter of opinion?? I don’t get it.

 

[Lujack]

Actually, the fact that it was written by a Protestant who does not believe in the Church’s Marian doctrine is reason enough not to include this song in any lineup for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The song stands squarely to the opposite of what the Church teaches about Mary.

No, one line semantically contradicts the Immaculate Conception, and that line can be changed in thirty seconds. Other than that, there is not one thing in there that contradicts the Church.

In addition, why would we throw everything written by Protestants out? We should throw things out or keep them based on what they say, not who wrote them. If the song is to be thrown out, it should be thrown out because of what it says, not who wrote it.

How can you not say that it is Anti-Catholic, especially when it does not conform to the Church’s teachings on Mary? That statement, with all due respect, does not make any sense. Remember that for music to be used within the Church’s liturgy, it must conform to the Church’s teachings. This song does not.

I say it isn’t anti-Catholic because non-Catholic does not equal anti-Catholic. Anti-Catholicism requires some prejudice against or hatred of the Church.

Otherwise, every non-Catholic in the world would be anti-Catholic.

 

[JohnPaul0]

Of course she knew! The Archangel Gabriel told her:

“He [Jesus] will be great and will be called Son of the Most High…” Luke 1:32

The lyricist must be a typical Protestant who never reads the Gospels because they interfere with his flawed theology.

 

[agapewolf]

Of course she knew! The Archangel Gabriel told her:

“He [Jesus] will be great and will be called Son of the Most High…” Luke 1:32

The lyricist must be a typical Protestant who never reads the Gospels because they interfere with his flawed theology.

or as I said twice already, was using a poetic device to convey a deeper meaning.

 

[MusicMan]

What is it with people who think that CHurch teaching is some fluid thing?? This song is clearly aginst teaching, and all of a sudden, the Immacualte Conception becomes a matter of opinion?? I don’t get it.

I don’t think any of us are arguing that Church teaching be fluid, nor are we denying the Immaculate Conception (although I am baffled by the temporal paradox of the whole thing). The song isn’t really aesthetically pleasing, but it’s not really in contradiction to Church teaching either.

Maybe we’ll sing it on Thursday with the offending line fixed.

Lord knows we should have plenty of street cred with the pro-Gregorians, since the Psalm and Alleluia settings are Chant.

 

[JohnPaul0]

or as I said twice already, was using a poetic device to convey a deeper meaning.

Okay, I admit I didn’t read all the posts. I found your comment, but I think that your point is too subtle, especially when the songs repeats over and over, “did you know?”

 

[CWBetts]

I don’t think any of us are arguing that Church teaching be fluid, nor are we denying the Immaculate Conception (although I am baffled by the temporal paradox of the whole thing). The song isn’t really aesthetically pleasing, but it’s not really in contradiction to Church teaching either.

Maybe we’ll sing it on Thursday with the offending line fixed.

Lord knows we should have plenty of street cred with the pro-Gregorians, since the Psalm and Alleluia settings are Chant.

I apologize for misunderstanding. I have posted on another thread that people were calling what was posted out of the Caatechism opinion and i was a bit …grumpy…

 

[pnewton]

In regards to the Immaculate Conception:

We declare, pronounce, and define: the doctrine that maintains that the most Blessed Virgin Mary in the first instant of her conception, by a unique grace and privilege of the omnipotent God and* in consideration of the merits of Christ Jesus the Saviour of the human race*, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore must be firmly and constantly held by all the faithful

If we are going to overly picky on the grammar, it should point out that it was in consideration of the merit earned by Jesus that Mary was saved. From the point of view of Mary, this was still a future event, but one whose benefit had already been applied to her. I do not even think English has a verb tense for such a convoluted thought. There is a sense in which her salvation was still in the future. Again, I would not use the song because I do consider it confusing, but it does not explicitly deny the Immaculate Conception. In fact, the song is not really about Mary at all, but about Jesus, his birth and life. From that stand point, it was a poor choice on liturgical grounds to go during Advent, even if other considerations did not exist.

 

[CantorRick]

Benedictine,

Our Choir is doing this piece tonight during the choral presentation leading up to midnight Mass.

There is a significant change to the lyrics,however, in those lines where the lyric seems to address Mary as being made new and soon to be delivered, the word “you” has been changed to “us”.

The change destroys the rhyming of the verses in question but does impart Catholic theology therein.

In my personal reflection on the piece, I have placed Mary as the representative of all of us (humankind) and the baby ( Christ Jesus) as the Triune God.

When viewed in this light, the song loses it’s implicit departure from Catholic Thinking.

Peace be with you and have a blessed Christmas.

RM

QUOTE=Benedictine;4584682]Wow! What has my original post caused???

I didn’t mean to start any arguments or anything. I just had to let off some pressure from last Sunday’s mass. Imagine, of all the music the new music director could have chosen, she goes completely sappy, happy-clappy, and (self-censored) on us!

But then again, that is her style. Her bible is the Haugan-Haas songbook.

Yes, I know, I not being very charitable here, and I am sorry for that, believe me. I just cannot imagine why she does this! Sing A New Church and Mary Did You Know is enough to make one renounce their US citizenship.

Well Benedictine, some of you may say, if you think you can do better, why don’t you join the choir? Hey, I just may do that! Or not.

Sigh. I really, really need a Tridentine Latin Mass right about now! :sad_yes:

 

[MusicMan]

After Choir practice this morning, several college students from our parish came in to practice a piece for tonight’s Midnight Mass (My group is doing Mass during the day tomorrow).

A couple of these students were alums of my program and asked me to stick around and listen. They’re singing Mary, Did You Know. I made a comment about this thread to one of the students … her response, “But, it’s so beautiful.”

As I listened to their rehearsal, I really got the sense that the song has nothing to do with Mary. The lyricist is only using Mary as a vehicle to speak to us about the wonder of the Incarnation and the life Jesus would lead. It’s not about “Mary, did you know,” but it’s about, “hey, you guys, did you know? Isn’t this a wondrous event?!”

 

[Brendan]

That’s a paradox. If Mary could have said “no,” how could the Immaculate Conception have occurred? It seems to me that Mary was either predestined to say “yes,” denying her Free Will, or the Immaculate Conception could not have happened.

The Immaculate Conception gave Mary the freest possible Will, one untarnished by sin.

A Free Will is one that can choose to do good. That is the Catholic definition of Free WIll.

The ability to choose evil is not Freedom, but rather Licence.

 

[CantorRick]

MusicMan,

There’s a saying… don’t remember it exactly, about when minds, under diverse circumstance, address a problem and arrive at the same conclusion. I think we’ve done just that without the air being cluttered with all the confetti.

RM

After Choir practice this morning, several college students from our parish came in to practice a piece for tonight’s Midnight Mass (My group is doing Mass during the day tomorrow).

A couple of these students were alums of my program and asked me to stick around and listen. They’re singing Mary, Did You Know. I made a comment about this thread to one of the students … her response, “But, it’s so beautiful.”

As I listened to their rehearsal, I really got the sense that the song has nothing to do with Mary. The lyricist is only using Mary as a vehicle to speak to us about the wonder of the Incarnation and the life Jesus would lead. It’s not about “Mary, did you know,” but it’s about, “hey, you guys, did you know? Isn’t this a wondrous event?!”