Mary in Islam

[hamba2han]

The following is a hadith from Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts”.

 

[AgnosTheist]

thanks hamba,

so i take it that its only in the hadiths and NOT in the koran?

and that means jesus is not actually the messiah just yet. only in the future.

jesus is not the messiah. jesus WILL BE the messiah.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ith qalati almalaikatu ya maryamu inna Allaha yubashshiruki bikalimatin minhu ismuhu** almaseehu **AAeesa ibnu maryama wajeehan fee alddunya waalakhirati wamina almuqarrabeena

Waqawlihim inna qatalna **almaseeha AAeesa **ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wainna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama **almaseehu AAeesa **ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee alardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

AL-MASEEH = The MESSIAH. Jesus is the Messiah, that is his title in the Qur’an.

 

[hamba2han]

The term ‘Messiah’ has different connotations in Christianity and Islam.

The following is taken from Wikipedia:

Jesus is described by various means in the Qur’an. The most common reference to Jesus occurs in the form of “Ibn Maryam” (son of Mary), sometimes preceded with another title. Jesus is also recognised as a prophet (nabī) and messenger (rasūl) of God. The terms wadjih (“worthy of esteem in this world and the next”), mubārak (“blessed”, or “a source of benefit for others”), `abd-Allāh (servant of God) are all used in the Qur’an in reference to Jesus.

Another title frequently mentioned is al-Masīḥ, which translates to “the Messiah.” This does not correspond to the Christian concept of Messiah, as Islam regards all prophets, including Jesus, to be normal men without any share in divinity. Muslim exegetes explain the use of the word masīh in the Qur’an as referring to Jesus’ status as the one anointed by means of blessings and honors; or as the one who helped cure the sick, by anointing the eyes of the blind, for example. Qur’anic verses also employ the term “kalimatullah” (meaning the “word of God”) as a descriptor of Jesus, which is interpreted as a reference to the creating word of God, uttered at the moment of Jesus’ conception; or as recognition of Jesus’ status as a messenger of God, speaking on God’s behalf.

Therefore in Islam, Prophet Jesus (pbuh) IS the Messiah.

 

[AgnosTheist]

AL-MASEEH = The MESSIAH. Jesus is the Messiah, that is his title in the Qur’an.

Its just an empty title for 2 reasons:

1. the quran doesnt actually give a hint on what a messiah is.
2. jesus is not a king. he is not a ruler. his rulership is merely a promise mentioned in the hadiths.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Messiah does not mean ruler. It means anointed, chosen. i.e., “The Chosen One.”

 

[AgnosTheist]

Messiah does not mean ruler. It means anointed, chosen. i.e., “The Chosen One.”

According to the Quran, annointed for what?

Chosen? Arent all prophets chosen? Mohammad is a messiah then?

And the whole day you are the one who supported the idea that messiah means ruler.

Muslims are really not sure what a messiah is.

 

[Sister_Amy]

According to the Quran, annointed for what?

---

Chosen? Arent all prophets chosen? Mohammad is a messiah then?

No.

And the whole day you are the one who supported the idea that messiah means ruler.

Never once did I purport that idea. I said that Jesus will return as a ruler because he is the Messiah, never once that messiah means ruler.

Muslims are really not sure what a messiah is.

Muslims are sure. Jews are sure. I even thought most Christians are sure.

You, on the other hand, are not sure.

Let me give you an example, the same as before. Samuel anointed David. David was anointed–chosen to be king when he was still a young boy. When he became king, he was king, not “anointed.” So the fact that Jesus is “anointed” gives us a clue as to his purpose–that he has been chosen for leadership. He was not a ruler during his lifetime, and we know He will return, and based on authentic hadith Muslims know he will be a ruler, but such is implied by the word.

 

[Jonathon]

In Islam, is Mary not regarded as the best woman to ever walk the planet?

 

[AgnosTheist]

No.

And there goes the idea that Messiah plainly means “chosen”.

Never once did I purport that idea. I said that Jesus will return as a ruler because he is the Messiah, never once that messiah means ruler.

My dear you gave me that in answer to my challenge as to “what a messiah is in islam”. and as to how jesus functions as a “messiah”.

if you want to change your answer, then answer it now. how does jesus functions as a messiah according to the quran?

and let me add, how does the title “messiah” distinguish jesus from the other prophets?

You, on the other hand, are not sure.

Messiah means annointed for royalty.

Muslims are sure.

Now give me your definition. Annonted? Chosen? Thats it?

Let me give you an example, the same as before. Samuel anointed David. David was anointed–chosen to be king when he was still a young boy. When he became king, he was king, not “anointed.” So the fact that Jesus is “anointed” gives us a clue as to his purpose–that he has been chosen for leadership. He was not a ruler during his lifetime, and we know He will return, and based on authentic hadith Muslims know he will be a ruler, but such is implied by the word.

must you copy the jewish ideas? isnt the quran complete on matters of faith? does the quran call david “messiah”?

 

[Sister_Amy]

In Islam, is Mary not regarded as the best woman to ever walk the planet?

She is.

 

[AgnosTheist]

She is.

Is that really in the Quran or sunnah, or is it just a muslim interpretation?

 

[R_not]

That’s kind of funny…

Too bad you are not. You give disinformaton by not telling people of the violence that is islam, its imperialistic goals and that you want infidels either dead, converted or subjugated. You don’t give a rip about Mary, but just making sure your image of islam is kept intact by discussing with Catholics to make them think your ‘religion’ is benign. It is not benign - it is the opposite of benign - it is violent and is all about lying to make your image.

I look at the actions and words of muslims worldwide and see nothing but death and chaos while you worry about islam’s image.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Am I lying?

‘The hypocrite has three characteristics: he tells lies, breaks his promise and breaches the trust.’ (Rpt. in Bukhari & Muslim)

‘Only they invent falsehood who believe not Allah’s revelations, and (only) they are the liars.’ (Surat an Nahl)

‘Stick to truthfulness, for it leads one to righteousness, and the latter leads to Paradise. Thus, when one sticks to truthfulness and shows keenness in it, Allah considers him as an absolutely truthful man. And avoid telling lies, for it leads to excessiveness, and this leads to Hell-Fire. Thus, when one persists in telling lies, Allah considers him as a liar.’

According to my own religion, if I am lying, I am sinning. But it’s a very easy tactic for you to just say that I am lying if you don’t want to confront what I’m saying. A cop out, if you will.

I look at the actions and words of muslims worldwide and see nothing but death and chaos while you worry about islam’s image.

Why don’t you look at the actions of the Zakat foundation, Islamic Relief, ICNA, and ISNA, MAS Freedom, and many others? I think you are only looking at Fox News, and not the actions or words of any Muslims.

You see, it does me no good to worry about islam’s image, as you put it. I have faith–conviction–in my beliefs, and have enough to worry about with just myself, my own sins, trying to purify my own heart. At the same time, you and some others on this forum are spreading lies about Islam. As a Muslim, I have an obligation to tell you about Islam–it’s my responsibility, and I am not allowed to lie.

But apparently Islam is very threatening to you–not because you see it as violent, but because it is TRUTH from Your Lord, and you’re not ready to wake up to it. And that I think is why I make you uncomfortable.

 

[R_not]

Am I lying?

‘The hypocrite has three characteristics: he tells lies, breaks his promise and breaches the trust.’ (Rpt. in Bukhari & Muslim)

‘Only they invent falsehood who believe not Allah’s revelations, and (only) they are the liars.’ (Surat an Nahl)

‘Stick to truthfulness, for it leads one to righteousness, and the latter leads to Paradise. Thus, when one sticks to truthfulness and shows keenness in it, Allah considers him as an absolutely truthful man. And avoid telling lies, for it leads to excessiveness, and this leads to Hell-Fire. Thus, when one persists in telling lies, Allah considers him as a liar.’

According to my own religion, if I am lying, I am sinning. But it’s a very easy tactic for you to just say that I am lying if you don’t want to confront what I’m saying. A cop out, if you will.

Why don’t you look at the actions of the Zakat foundation, Islamic Relief, ICNA, and ISNA, MAS Freedom, and many others? I think you are only looking at Fox News, and not the actions or words of any Muslims.

You see, it does me no good to worry about islam’s image, as you put it. I have faith–conviction–in my beliefs, and have enough to worry about with just myself, my own sins, trying to purify my own heart. At the same time, you and some others on this forum are spreading lies about Islam. As a Muslim, I have an obligation to tell you about Islam–it’s my responsibility, and I am not allowed to lie.

But apparently Islam is very threatening to you–not because you see it as violent, but because it is TRUTH from Your Lord, and you’re not ready to wake up to it. And that I think is why I make you uncomfortable.

Well, that is more taqiyya ‘according to my own religion if I am lying I am sinning’.
You are not telling the truth there because if you lie in order to smooth over islam - it isn’t a lie. You will squeel like a pig denying it too. Squeel away.

Well, yes you are since you don’t tell the truth about islam but try to tell us how ‘peaceful’ it is while it teaches to kill or subjugate infidels. And even in your post you say we are the liars. Why? I haven’t said anything untruthful about what is happening worldwide. Facts speak for themselves.

I will post these again for anyone in the middle of this:
Islamic terror attacks
thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

military expeditions led by the ‘prophet’
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

As for looking into the actions of those organizations you mentioned, I do - that is why I am hofefully waking people up to their motives. To censor people like me trying to say how violent islam is. To say to watch these so called ‘moderates’ especially the ones who come on Catholic websites to spout more taqiyya on our threads to deceive us.

I do indeed see islam as a threat. But, I am not afraid of it. You do not make me uncomfortable, you make me disgusted that a woman pushes islam while islam looks at woman as being 1/2 the man, with 1/2 the rights and should be beatened, and if raped they could be stoned or hanged, or even if some male thinks the woman did wrong she could be stoned or hanged. muslim males are trying to get away with ‘honor killings’ in our country - and women like you defend the indefensible, the intolerant.

 

[AgnosTheist]

But apparently Islam is very threatening to you–not because you see it as violent, but because it is TRUTH from Your Lord, and you’re not ready to wake up to it. And that I think is why I make you uncomfortable.

That is an insult to intelligence, my dear.

Honestly, why on earth would anyone fight his divine Lord???

your excuse is just plain cheesy.

Think about it: Why do muslims oppose polytheists? Your answer will be the same reason why catholics oppose Islam.

Think!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Well, that is more taqiyya ‘according to my own religion if I am lying I am sinning’.
You are not telling the truth there because if you lie in order to smooth over islam - it isn’t a lie. You will squeel like a pig denying it too. Squeel away.

The word is squeal–that is the correct spelling.

I expected this response, “taqiyya” or whatever. I have never heard this teaching in Islam. I have only heard it from Robert Spencer–who is himself a known liar about Islam.

What I said is truth and I proved it. There is no such thing as lying to “smooth over Islam.” It’s not allowed. If you were threatening to kill me unless I denounced Islam, and I did, then I could ask forgiveness. But you’re not threatening to kill me (although you did compare me to a pig, which is not very polite) so I have no reason to not acknowledge my true beliefs and I present them here as honestly as I can.

Well, yes you are since you don’t tell the truth about islam but try to tell us how ‘peaceful’ it is while it teaches to kill or subjugate infidels.

If you take a peek in the Questions for Muslim women thread, or maybe this one too, I have offered a number of explanations as to WHY Muslims are allowed to go to war. I never said Islam is “peaceful,” actually–that’s not a word I have used. I can sincerely explain any ayah in the Qur’an you wish to confront me with–I believe it to be entirely from God, with Wisdom, and for the best of mankind, and a way to establish JUSTICE. What I am offering though, is real explanations, and not the distorted ones you hear on TV or youtube or jihadwatch etc.

And even in your post you say we are the liars. Why? I haven’t said anything untruthful about what is happening worldwide. Facts speak for themselves.

When you lie, I will call you out. I do not try to justify what is happening worldwide, and I (as all Muslims shoudl) condemn injustice everywhere. On 9/11 as much as in Gaza or anywhere else. The source of my religion is not a man living in caves in Afghanistan. Never has been, never will be. Once you acknowledge that much, we can move on.

As for looking into the actions of those organizations you mentioned, I do - that is why I am hofefully waking people up to their motives. To censor people like me trying to say how violent islam is. To say to watch these so called ‘moderates’ especially the ones who come on Catholic websites to spout more taqiyya on our threads to deceive us.

That word taqiyya again. Show me an Islamic source ever using the word taqiyya. Tell me which scholar teaches it.

I do indeed see islam as a threat. But, I am not afraid of it. You do not make me uncomfortable, you make me disgusted that a woman pushes islam while islam looks at woman as being 1/2 the man, with 1/2 the rights and should be beatened, and if raped they could be stoned or hanged, or even if some male thinks the woman did wrong she could be stoned or hanged. muslim males are trying to get away with ‘honor killings’ in our country - and women like you defend the indefensible, the intolerant.

Islam does not view woman as HALF a man, or half the rights, or to be beaten (beaten is the correct word, not beatened) and a woman is NEVER supposed to be punished for rape (See, that is LIE–I said I’d call you out. A woman is not punished for rape in Islam.) I have utterly condemned honor killings–they are not a teaching of Islam, not at all, and they should be condemned. I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO DEFEND THESE EVIL PRACTICES.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I expected this response, “taqiyya” or whatever. I have never heard this teaching in Islam. I have only heard it from Robert Spencer–who is himself a known liar about Islam.

But honestly, in all of your knowledge of Islam, are there instances wherein Mohammad allowed his people/companions to lie for the sake/cause of Islam?

 

[Sister_Amy]

AgnosTheist,

When I went home last night I recalled that I told you Muhammad was not called a Messiah. That is true. But I remembered last night that one of the names/titles for Muhammad is “Al-Mustafa” which means the chosen one. It is not the same as “Al-Maseeh” (the Messiah) but I thought you might find it interested so I’m telling you now.

 

[AgnosTheist]

AgnosTheist,

When I went home last night I recalled that I told you Muhammad was not called a Messiah. That is true. But I remembered last night that one of the names/titles for Muhammad is “Al-Mustafa” which means the chosen one. It is not the same as “Al-Maseeh” (the Messiah) but I thought you might find it interested so I’m telling you now.

Thank you for remembering this. I am fully aware that in Islam Mohammad was a “Chosen”.

What I want to understand is that if Messiah means “Chosen”, and why isnt Mohammad considered a Messiah? Or is he?