"Mary is the way?"

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Timothy

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A good topic for a new thread.

I would like to give Jesusistheway the chance to make the first post and set the discussion in motion.
 
Good, we agree - that was easy.

Probably what you need to do here JesusistheWay is start documenting why you “think” this is what Catholics believe.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
Mary is not the way to our Salvation… ok your turn!!!
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On the way to salvation she is a Guide along the Path.

Tag, youre it.
 
Also I would like to add a point here before this thread gets started. I am not a “troll.” I am not surfing the boards loking to irritate people and make people upset over nothing. I love forums because its a great place to organize thoughts, discuss views and say what you have to say without getting in a screaming match or get cut off.

Also I would like to thank all of you that do respond of add their (name removed by moderator)ut because its adds enlightement to the discussion and its a great thing to know where everyone is coming from.

One way or another, we will all discover the truth, and because of the Holy Spirit driving our thirst for knowledge and the overall desire to help eachother the way Christ wanted us to, I pray we will all meet up in Heaven on that day and greet each other properly… with hugs of love and tears of joy.

God bless you all!!!

Now lets talk. 😃
 
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Timothy:
On the way to salvation she is a Guide along the Path.

Tag, youre it.
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It is what I have been taught that Mary’s duty was to give birth to the Messiah and raise him proper, but that is all. After she died, she rested and is still resting peacefully, as are all that have died up till now until the 2nd coming of Christ and he resurrects us (the saved) from our rest. But in no way since has she been able to infuence us or our prayers. She is asleep…
 
First, Welcome to the boards.

I would like to ask, as someone outside of the Catholic Church, What do you make of Marian devotion and what do you see as it’s motivation being both by those that encourage it and those that practice it?
 
I honestly see it as the devil’s clever distraction away from the worship of Jesus. There are many historical roots to this but the worship of Marianism hadn’t even started until 300 years after Christ…
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
It is what I have been taught that Mary’s duty was to give birth to the Messiah and raise him proper, but that is all. After she died, she rested and is still resting peacefully, as are all that have died up till now until the 2nd coming of Christ and he resurrects us (the saved) from our rest. But in no way since has she been able to infuence us or our prayers. She is asleep…
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But not all have died. Enoch and Elijah were preserved from death because of their sanctity, and possibly for their role in Revelations, whatever your take on that may be. It doesn’t hold a universal standard, but sets presedent that God, in his wisdom can preserve his people for his purpose as he sees fit.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
I honestly see it as the devil’s clever distraction away from the worship of Jesus. There are many historical roots to this but the worship of Marianism hadn’t even started until 300 years after Christ…
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How would devotion to Jesus’ contemporaries (I am puting this mildly, obviously) detract from the worship of Christ? As a protestant, I wanted to become a Deacon and had a strong appreciation of Stephen the Deacon Martyr. I used him asan example of faith and how to live as a Christian. Mary is often viewed in the same light. We strive to set our lives as she would, Her openess to God’s will is a primary example of that (with her fiat). In addition to that Like it says in the Hail Mary, “Pray for us now and at the Hour of our death”. This is a plea for intercessory prayer, Is it the aspect of prayer that disturbs you or something else?
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
I honestly see it as the devil’s clever distraction away from the worship of Jesus.
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It was through asking Mary to pray with me that I might better know her Son that I found a resurgence in my faith and a deeper love for Christ than I’d ever known. That was some 15+ years ago, and I love Him more and more each day.

Dare I add, “So there!”???
😉
 
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Timothy:
But not all have died. Enoch and Elijah were preserved from death because of their sanctity, and possibly for their role in Revelations, whatever your take on that may be. It doesn’t hold a universal standard, but sets presedent that God, in his wisdom can preserve his people for his purpose as he sees fit.
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Okies you are correct about this… there were obvious exceptions in the Bible of those who went straight to Heaven- Elijah, Enoch, Moses, Jesus… I cannot and will not dispute this. But those who were not exceptions to the rule hold to what the Bible says happend to the rest. They (the saved) feel asleep until the Resurrection after the Great Tribulation. And those who were not saved will remain asleep until after the 1000 years of peace, the Second Death.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
Okies you are correct about this… there were obvious exceptions in the Bible of those who went straight to Heaven- Elijah, Enoch, Moses, Jesus… I cannot and will not dispute this. But those who were not exceptions to the rule hold to what the Bible says happend to the rest. They (the saved) feel asleep until the Resurrection after the Great Tribulation. And those who were not saved will remain asleep until after the 1000 years of peace, the Second Death.
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But there were those that God Preserved, and that itself is significant. It tells us that God does not preclude himself from radically intervening in the normal events of history and more specificly in the lives of His People. Granted, he did not do it often, but that is nothing that either of us dispute. What I am trying to say is that I find it reasonable to believe that God could have done so with Mary, for his purpose, if he had chosen to do so.
 
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Sheen:
It was through asking Mary to pray with me that I might better know her Son that I found a resurgence in my faith and a deeper love for Christ than I’d ever known. That was some 15+ years ago, and I love Him more and more each day.

Dare I add, “So there!”???
😉
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But you still pray through Mary, do you not? Do you confess your sins to a priest? I confess my sins to Jesus. I pray to the Father in the name of Jesus. I think thats one of my biggest GRRRR’s is that Jesus basically said that he was to be the prime focus of what you do in your life. No one else…
 
Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

This guy is in heaven right now. Why would Mary still be in “soul sleep”.
 
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Timothy:
But there were those that God Preserved, and that itself is significant. It tells us that God does not preclude himself from radically intervening in the normal events of history and more specificly in the lives of His People. Granted, he did not do it often, but that is nothing that either of us dispute. What I am trying to say is that I find it reasonable to believe that God could have done so with Mary, for his purpose, if he had chosen to do so.
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okies I’ll bite… maybe thats a possibility. But if thats the case, where are all the sightings and influences of Moses? Elijah? Enoch? Why havent their been any sightings of them? They arent here. They are in heaven. Mary can’t be there and here at the same time. That is the power of omniscience… a power only the lord would have…
 
There are so many aspects of Marian devotion. How to begin. . . How do you imagine Jesus feels towards His mother? He not only chose her. He made her. When we humans make things with our hands out of love, we usually make the dinner or wood carving or baby blanket (whatever) as good as we possibly can. How much more love and precision, then, would God put into creating His own mother, the vessel in which He would dwell for nine months? I’ve heard people say that she was nothing special, that anyone could have done what she did had they been chosen, and that puzzles me. It’s not just that she was chosen. She was created for a very special, very holy purpose. She has a unique relationship with God.

It’s always nice when friends like our family – our mothers, our spouses, our children – and vice versa. We want the people who are important and feature largely in our lives to like or love each other. Isn’t it reasonable to think that Jesus wants His mother and His friends to love each other?

This is but one point and I have a feeling I will want to write more.

I think you might have started a beautiful thread.

God bless you.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
But you still pray through Mary, do you not? Do you confess your sins to a priest?
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John 20:**22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
  • *23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
*What do you understand this to mean?
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
But you still pray through Mary, do you not? Do you confess your sins to a priest? I confess my sins to Jesus. I pray to the Father in the name of Jesus. I think thats one of my biggest GRRRR’s is that Jesus basically said that he was to be the prime focus of what you do in your life. No one else…
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We pray with Mary, oftentimes. We ask her to join her prayers with ours, absolutely. But we also pry directly to God as well. In fact most of the Mass, including the entire Second half, the liturgy of the Eucharist, is prayers directed toward God alone.

As far as confession goes, it was aptly called the sacrament of reconcilliation by the Vatican II council (Before I became Catholic, I imagined that Vatican II was the Pope’s summer Home) Certainly we Confess to a priest, but We also Confess to God and the Priest, as one who had been appointed representative in that aspect through his ordination that is traced back through His bishop and back to the Apostles and Finally to Christ (John 20:21 I believe… My bible is around here… somewhere… maybe in my car…) forgives us of our sins, through the Authority that he recieves through his ordination all the way back to Christ. The Authority is the Authority that Christ granted his apostles to forgive sins, It comes from Christ, but confession is more practical than all of that as well. Confession has three principal participants representing three parties. 1) yourself 2) the priest 3) God…
The priest is there for sacramental reasons as we have already discussed, but He is also a representative of the community. When we sin, we offend God, ourselves and the community, therefore those are the three groups that we must recconcile ourselves back to to be in full communion with the Church (in several senses) God, THe community and oureselves.

This is getting long, so I will simply post it at that.

By the by, I am really enjoying our discussion.
 
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