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anon10271182
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Indeed. It is the infection of the “Protestant spirit.”
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AveOTheotokos
Guest
Just some more information and perspective for consideration:
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Vonsalza
Guest
It seems the defense for the sincere Marian devotee is 1.) I’m not actually worshiping Mary and 2.) even if I was, I’m actually worshiping her son, Jesus, but just doing it through her!
That a pretty good summary?
That a pretty good summary?
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godisgood77
Guest
yes, that is about right.
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KMG
Guest
Mary is the Mediatrix of All Graces. The Catholic liturgy doesn’t lie.
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phil19034
Guest
Jesus is the only mediator between man and God the Father. No one comes to the Father without going though Jesus.
HOWEVER, when we refer to Mary ad Mediatrix of All Graces, we are NOT referring to her as being a mediator between man and God the Father.
We are referring to her being the mediator between us and Christ.
Mary leads us to Jesus. Jesus leads us to The Father.
I highly recommend 33 Days to Morning Glory. If you read that book (and use the videos which are very helpful), it will start to make more sense.
33 Days to Morning Glory (Premium Edition) - Fr. Michael Gaitley
From Fr. Michael E. Gaitley, MIC, author of the popular book "Consoling the Heart of Jesus," comes an extraordinary 33-day journey to Marian consecration with four giants of Marian spirituality: St.
You can watch the videos on FORMED.org. If you don’t have a FORMED subscription, you can get a free 7 day trial there.
God Bless
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Agathon
Guest
Where is it in the Ordinary Form?
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anon10271182
Guest
That’s a good summary of what Protestants generally say about Roman Catholics.
Marian devotion is Roman Catholic. And all Marian devotion had better be “sincere.”
Marian devotion is Roman Catholic. And all Marian devotion had better be “sincere.”
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KMG
Guest
Collection of Masses of the BVM. Not that that matters…if it’s in the 1962 Missal, that’s good enough.
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godisgood77
Guest
you know… the name calling is bit troubling… I get that this subject can be a bit emotional, but calling Catholics protestants because they disagree with you is kinda cheap…
There are many good Catholics, very good theologians, that disagree with you…and they are in full accord with the Church. As I’ve laid out above…
Maybe post some evidence or an argument rather than name calling and insisting on your way?
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anon10271182
Guest
I didn’t call anyone here a Protestant.
Neither would I call anyone who condemns Marian devotion a “good theologian.”
Neither would I call anyone who condemns Marian devotion a “good theologian.”
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godisgood77
Guest
Not explicitly…
Nor am I referencing any theologian that condemns Marian devotion… just good theologians who do not believe that the new idea of Mediatrix of All Graces should be pursued. If you were to read what I posted earlier, you will see a list of the world foremost Marian scholars.
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Agathon
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That’s not what I asked.
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anon10271182
Guest
I repeat, in logical form:
A simple syllogism:
If Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity, is the source of all graces, and
Mary is Mediatrix between humanity and Christ, then
Mary is Mediatrix of all graces.
If one accepts both premises one must accept the conclusion.
If one rejects premise 1, then he is not a Christian. If one rejects premise 2, then one rejects Catholic teaching.
A simple syllogism:
If Christ, the Second Person of the Trinity, is the source of all graces, and
Mary is Mediatrix between humanity and Christ, then
Mary is Mediatrix of all graces.
If one accepts both premises one must accept the conclusion.
If one rejects premise 1, then he is not a Christian. If one rejects premise 2, then one rejects Catholic teaching.
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Fauken
Guest
Even if it’s not, what’s your point? How many of Mary’s titles are not regularly celebrated in the ordinary form? When was the last time you attended a Mass for Our Lady of Good Council, or Our Lady of Knock? Are those suddenly non-existent because they don’t have a set place in the OF’s calendar?
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godisgood77
Guest
just not true…
Christ while on Earth routinely imparted graces directly to those around Him with no mediator and He continues to today. Marian intercession, Mary’s prayers for us are a constant. One can not subscribe to the relatively new Mediatrix of All Graces and be a good Catholic… this is well documented.
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KMG
Guest
It is in the OF, in the Collection of Masses of the BVM.
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anon10271182
Guest
And I know of many who assist only at the Novus Ordo Mass who nevertheless have accomplished a Marian consecration.
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Agathon
Guest
It’s a title not a dogma.
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