Mary on the Cross

[rr1213]

I get you.

 

[PointlessShrew]

Wow! We get this exact same charge in these forums about every four months. Every Protestant missionary in the world must have gone to this one, small church in Equador!

Is this place a required visit for anti-Catholic prosyletizers?

If it is, it would be odd, because it’s not a church, perse, but a monastery.

If anti-Catholics are actually going there (and not just lifting this claim from other slanderous sources), they definitely aren’t there for an education or direction. Quite odd.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I get confused at times when I am talking in general about anti-Catholic statements/situations, i.e., Mary Worship, Mary on the Cross, Eucharistic Death Cookie…, and then a non-Catholic will be offended, take what I say personally, as if I was accusing them personally as an individual.

This happens a lot here. If I or anyone else makes a comment in regards to a particular topic that has to do with what some mean spirited people/organizations say about the Catholic Church and it’s teachings, I/we get accused of personally attacking someone when I/we didn’t even know that person was even involved in the discussion until the accusation appeared.

It’s a Catholic site, and I sometimes think we’re expected not to defend the Catholic position without going to extreme measure to avoid upsetting people or offending them when they disagree with the Catholic position.

What’s upsetting is that in the real world, meaning not online, I have never in my life been accused of being harsh or uncaring or rude, it’s not in my nature. But sometimes on forums, people read something into what you’ve written that’s not there, or not intended, and get really upset.

At that point, if you don’t almost retract everything you’ve discussed, you can’t really change the impression of that person. That is a huge waste of time, IMO. You don’t really get anywhere if you have to keep restating things or retracting things, you shouldn’t have to unless you have been very obviously duking it out with someone uncharitably or stated something that was obviously not true.

I think maybe some people are way too sensitive to discuss certain things. If it pushes their buttons to be in disagreement, they should abstain from those topics that are likely to set them off. I do this myself. There are some topics I just don’t even view, let alone participate in, my blood pressure tends to go up and it’s not worth it.

Just my:twocents:

 

[rr1213]

I get confused at times when I am talking in general about anti-Catholic statements/situations, i.e., Mary Worship, Mary on the Cross, Eucharistic Death Cookie…, and then a non-Catholic will be offended, take what I say personally, as if I was accusing them personally as an individual.

This happens a lot here. If I or anyone else makes a comment in regards to a particular topic that has to do with what some mean spirited people/organizations say about the Catholic Church and it’s teachings, I/we get accused of personally attacking someone when I/we didn’t even know that person was even involved in the discussion until the accusation appeared.

It’s a Catholic site, and I sometimes think we’re expected not to defend the Catholic position without going to extreme measure to avoid upsetting people or offending them when they disagree with the Catholic position.

What’s upsetting is that in the real world, meaning not online, I have never in my life been accused of being harsh or uncaring or rude, it’s not in my nature. But sometimes on forums, people read something into what you’ve written that’s not there, or not intended, and get really upset.

At that point, if you don’t almost retract everything you’ve discussed, you can’t really change the impression of that person. That is a huge waste of time, IMO. You don’t really get anywhere if you have to keep restating things or retracting things, you shouldn’t have to unless you have been very obviously duking it out with someone uncharitably or stated something that was obviously not true.

I think maybe some people are way too sensitive to discuss certain things. If it pushes their buttons to be in disagreement, they should abstain from those topics that are likely to set them off. I do this myself. There are some topics I just don’t even view, let alone participate in, my blood pressure tends to go up and it’s not worth it.

Just my:twocents:

Use the quote button. That way people know to which post you are responding and it reduces the chances that people will take a comment as directed towards them when it is not.

 

[Seeker12]

:knight1:

Wow! We get this exact same charge in these forums about every four months. Every Protestant missionary in the world must have gone to this one, small church in Equador!

Is this place a required visit for anti-Catholic prosyletizers?

Maria G and apologetic response:
It is a study in sociology psychology and religion, just why Christians often not only do not get along, they prefer not to.
The Word of God is universal. that is why we are instructed to love our enemies, for the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Judgement is the Lord’s.
I find I do not have to defend the faith when I am not allowed to be Christian by some Protestants, because I am secure in knowing who I am in Christ. I get most annoyed by CATHOLICS who misrepresent the wisdom of the church, which could bridge barriers of prejudice and misunderstanding, because they present the church as a monolithic entity with every answer for every question codified in canon law.
Anyone who truly knows god fears most that he, or she, will offend against charity (fail to love as we are commanded) more than any other teaching. I am paraphrasing a quote from Thomas Merton here. True wisdom is not found in polemical diatribes.

 

[LilyM]

:knight1:

Maria G and apologetic response:
It is a study in sociology psychology and religion, just why Christians often not only do not get along, they prefer not to.
The Word of God is universal. that is why we are instructed to love our enemies, for the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Judgement is the Lord’s.
I find I do not have to defend the faith when I am not allowed to be Christian by some Protestants, because I am secure in knowing who I am in Christ. I get most annoyed by CATHOLICS who misrepresent the wisdom of the church, which could bridge barriers of prejudice and misunderstanding, because they present the church as a monolithic entity with every answer for every question codified in canon law.
Anyone who truly knows god fears most that he, or she, will offend against charity (fail to love as we are commanded) more than any other teaching. I am paraphrasing a quote from Thomas Merton here. True wisdom is not found in polemical diatribes.

No offense, but this thread was well and truly over a year old before you posted today. It pays to always check the date of the last post on a thread before responding to it.

 

[MariaG]

No offense, but this thread was well and truly over a year old before you posted today. It pays to always check the date of the last post on a thread before responding to it.

Yup! I had to go back and read what I had said

 

[MariaG]

:knight1:

Maria G and apologetic response:
It is a study in sociology psychology and religion, just why Christians often not only do not get along, they prefer not to.
The Word of God is universal. that is why we are instructed to love our enemies, for the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Judgement is the Lord’s.
I find I do not have to defend the faith when I am not allowed to be Christian by some Protestants, because I am secure in knowing who I am in Christ. I get most annoyed by CATHOLICS who misrepresent the wisdom of the church, which could bridge barriers of prejudice and misunderstanding, because they present the church as a monolithic entity with every answer for every question codified in canon law.
Anyone who truly knows god fears most that he, or she, will offend against charity (fail to love as we are commanded) more than any other teaching. I am paraphrasing a quote from Thomas Merton here. True wisdom is not found in polemical diatribes.

Hi

It is Sunday of Lent, so I was taking a few minutes to check in here, won’t be back regularly until after Lent so it may be awhile before I see any response to this post.

But since your post specifically named me, I thought it would be polite to respond back

Unfortunately, I am not sure what your point is here in relation to what I have said here in this thread, maybe simply due to the fact that I skimmed it trying to remember what I had said:shrug:

If you could be more specific to the things I said, since you specifically mentioned me maybe I could put your comments in context.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Seeker12]

Dear Maria:
Thank you for your reply. Actually, it wouldnot take much for me to go off on a tangent given the issues I have been wrestling with.
I think you were commenting on how quickly some Christians were willing to believe that the image was Mary, when it proved to be a martyr.
What is lost in this kind of thinking is the fact that it was a woman, that her father wanted her crucified, and that it must have been a horrific trial and quite painful (!).
What occurs to me FIRST is that a person was tortured for her faith-it is of secondary importance whether she belonged to one church or another. Then, it is important what the truth is about the event, which means getting the facts straight before we assume we know anything. then it follows that if she was Catholic, that is an important fact to take into acount. I might, as a Catholic, feel a special relationship to this martyr. If I recall my fellowship with all humanity and what we share as creations of the one God, it still matters, whatever the faith, including Protestant.
I think I was trying to say that having read something in Merton in preparation for an unofficial discussion group at a local library here, I use him as a reference point for these ideas, which he lays out in his many mini-essays in the book.
In any case, it is nice to hear a thoughtful reply. I have not always found some catholics (charismatics, and not all) so well mannered. Thank you.

 

[tonyfran]

The existence of such disagreement does not necessarily make one “anti-Catholic” or “anti-Protestant” but, merely, Protestant or Catholic.

Catholics are all encompassing and Universal, and a Union of mutually supporting individuals taking instructions from one Pope. A catholic knows that the right hand is made to care for the left hand and vice versa. He realises that the right hand cannot scratch, or massage, or remove a thorn from itself, but the left hand could do it easily, and vice versa. He also knows that Man is made in the Image of God.
A Protestant has to be anti-Catholic. What else is he Protesting against?
A protestor has to be the discontent one (Satan?), who is unhappy to stay in the Union, and needs to separate, and persuades others in the Union to separate from the Union and join him.
The problem with the Union of Protestants are that they are full of separatists, who do not like to be part of a Union, and they will keep on dividing and fighting with each other, till they are all destroyed (Like Mafia, and other criminal organisations)
Any entity, whether it is a house, or an animal, or a human body, is a union of many smaller parts. A living human body is a union of mutually supporting hands, legs, head, etc.
In a human body (Church), if a limb (Protestants) does not like to follow directions of the head (Pope) and decides to protest, and leave (break off from) the body (church), it will not survive for long, and soon get rotten and be reduced to foul smelling gases and liquids (divided into smaller non- Catholic factions).

Lord, Please teach us to live harmoniously with each other, help one another, and complement each other. Teach us to sacrifice ourselves for the sake of the survival of the Union, rather than selfishly work for oneself and lead oneself into destruction.

 

[rr1213]

A Protestant has to be anti-Catholic. What else is he Protesting against?

While not universally true by any means, most Protestants practice their faith without reference to the Catholic Church. It is only Catholics who think that Protestants are thinking about or protesting them all the time.

 

[NotWorthy]

While not universally true by any means, most Protestants practice their faith without reference to the Catholic Church. It is only Catholics who think that Protestants are thinking about or protesting them all the time.

I would agree with this statement.

 

[tonyfran]

So would other Protestants.

 

[tonyfran]

While not universally true by any means, most Protestants practice their faith without reference to the Catholic Church. It is only Catholics who think that Protestants are thinking about or protesting them all the time.

Protestants do not have any other faith to practice (like the Hindus, or Budhists).
They have no reason for having a separate existence if it is not for protesting against the Catholics.
They have the Bible (given to them by the Catholics) , and a policy of protesting against authority, and finger pointing.
Every member wants to be the captain or the head, and do their own thing.
They are like a football team or a ship without a Captain, or a body without a head (proceeding without any direction or purpose).

Matthew 12:25 : And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.

Luke 11:17: Since Jesus knew what they were thinking, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is ruined. A house divided against itself falls.

 

[Seeker12]

I regret that so may Catholics are unloving, rigid, and intolerant of other Christians. I am Catholic, and can find much to support the idea in Tradition that I may obey my conscience even where it goes against church teaching. None of that matters, however, It is more important how this kind of wrangling dishonors God and disfigures the image of Christ in our lives.
“Forigve thgem Father, for they know not what they do”. I am almost ready to leave the church, if I find that most Catholics are of the kind that post in this forum. I am serious. This is unChristian, mean-spirited, idolatrous, and ultimately, a cause of the damnation of souls to Hell. And I do not want to be counted among the damned, thank you.

 

[NotWorthy]

I regret that so may Catholics are unloving, rigid, and intolerant of other Christians. I am Catholic, and can find much to support the idea in Tradition that I may obey my conscience even where it goes against church teaching. None of that matters, however, It is more important how this kind of wrangling dishonors God and disfigures the image of Christ in our lives.
“Forigve thgem Father, for they know not what they do”. I am almost ready to leave the church, if I find that most Catholics are of the kind that post in this forum. I am serious. This is unChristian, mean-spirited, idolatrous, and ultimately, a cause of the damnation of souls to Hell. And I do not want to be counted among the damned, thank you.

Seeker, since this thread is rather aged, can you explain which posts are mean-spirited? Are they in defense of the Faith or are they accusatory?

And if mean-spirited-ness is the problem of the Church, wouldn’t it make more sense to change it from within the Church rather than leave and call all Catholics mean-spirited? I mean, Martin Luther had some good points, but are you sure God wanted him to cause the split in the Body of Christ that he did?

 

[NotWorthy]

I regret that so may Catholics are unloving, rigid, and intolerant of other Christians. I am Catholic, and can find much to support the idea in Tradition that I may obey my conscience even where it goes against church teaching.

BTW, what do you find that supports the idea that you may obey your conscience? What Scripture teaches that?

Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light, unless your conscience disagrees?” I’m not sure that’s how it was said.